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Original Sin Farce

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posted on May, 28 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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It is your right to have an opinion. Al bet one sided and subjective..drevill

And I'm not a Christian.

I would never worship A Christian God.

I'm an Eclectic Witch

[edit on 28-5-2008 by Lantian]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by Lantian]




posted on May, 28 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by Lantian
 


all opinions are one sided??? where do you get this from?



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
what adam gave us was an inclination to sin.


Adam didn't give us anything that wasn't already given to him (free will), since he himself already had the inclination to sin, and anyone of us would have done exactly the same thing in his shoes, since we are no better than he was. This is simply the base carnal state of man. God knew Adam would sin, his whole plan was formulated before anything was even crreated. Its like any father knowing his son. If I ask my child if he'd rather have a healthy meal, or gorge himself on Mcdonalds, I already know what his answer will be, before I even ask the question, and he still had free-will to answer it for himself. The reason there is sin in this world is not because of some 50/50 choice made by Adam thousands of years ago, it is because we are all sinners, and that is because we have free choice, we just have to learn over time to make the right choices. When the scriptures say that sin entered the world through Adam, it's because we are all descended from him, and we, like him, are all sinners, it is not because of some choice Adam made, that choice was already made before he even came into being, he just didn't know it yet, but God his father did.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by doctorex
When the scriptures say that sin entered the world through Adam, it's because we are all descended from him, and we, like him, are all sinners, it is not because of some choice Adam made,


believe what you like.

the scriptures say three things.

- god looked at his creation and saw that it was perfect (i fail to see how it can be perfect if he has an inclination to sin, it just doesnt make sense why god would do that)

- there is no mention of salvation for adam, whereas we have the hope of the resurrection (clearly implyinf that hi sin was different from ours. we sin because we are inclined to, he sinned because he chose to)

- the scriptures say that through adam sin and death entered into this world. (i fail to see the point in blaming him if he was inclined to sin anyway.)

i just fail to see how you can logically conclude that adam had an inclination to sin. it would be completely illogical for god to create adam that way



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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i think the whole idea of original sin, is not to say that from the moment you are born, you have sinned; but that from the moment you are born, you will begin to sin.

[edit on 5/29/2008 by JPhish]



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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ok, so lets assume original sin is a farce. then why do we die?


Death is a natural part of life, it's amusing how people can only see death as something attributed to god's plan - we don't do anything to deserve death, it's just an inescapable part of life


if we are all sinless, then why do we die? why would god send jesus? why is the world wicked?


To think death is something god does to us because we’ve sinned is quite sick, what kind of monster do you Christians worship? God didn't send Jesus because god doesn't exist. If you take away god from your mind then things start to make more sense and Jesus becomes just another average person in history like everyone else....

The world is 'wicked' or to rephrase, some people are wicked because that's simply how some people are. Everyone does something bad in their life but you don't need a god figure to explain our faults as sins. Can't you just accept that everything that happens in this world: the good things, the bad things and everything else is caused through us?

[edit on 29-5-2008 by andre18]



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
believe what you like.

the scriptures say three things.

- god looked at his creation and saw that it was perfect (i fail to see how it can be perfect if he has an inclination to sin, it just doesnt make sense why god would do that)


You are misquoting God there. And besides, Adam would have been perfect, until he sinned, but he was created with free will, he had the ability to sin from the beginning, or he would never have sinned in the first place. Christ was perfect, but that does not mean he didn't have the ability to sin, he was tempted just as we are, he simply had enough of God's spirit in him not to submit to temptation...

Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Also, God said Lucifer was perfect until sin was found in him...

EZEKIEL 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer was created, just like Adam, with free will, but with that also comes the ability to sin, and when he chose to do so, he was no longer perfect, sinless.



- there is no mention of salvation for adam, whereas we have the hope of the resurrection (clearly implyinf that hi sin was different from ours. we sin because we are inclined to, he sinned because he chose to)


and there is no mention no salvation for adam either. Do you honestly think that God didn't know that Adam would sin? We all sin becuase we choose to. God makes that clear...

1Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.


- the scriptures say that through adam sin and death entered into this world. (i fail to see the point in blaming him if he was inclined to sin anyway.)


You are simply looking at this with a blaming attitude. Because Adam was the first man, the first sinner, and all are descended from him, and all are sinners, sin and death came into the world through him. Blaming Adam for sin is like blaming those who killed Jesus for his death. Jesus died because we are all sinners, he died for all of our sins, not just the ones who killed Jesus. We are all to blame for the death of Jesus. Everytime we sin, we may as well be driving a nail into his hand, since it is because of those sins that he had to die, to pay the penalty for those sins. Thankfully, his sacrifice was so pure, it never needs to be repeated, but is good for all time, and through him we can ask for God for forgiveness.

Going by your logic (the ability to sin coming into the world after Adam sinned
), Eve didn't sin, even though she ate the apple before Adam did. If it was this act of eating of the tree of knowledge that brought the ability to sin into the world, then the scriptures would say that all sin came through Eve wouldn't it, since her act was the first record in the scriptures of actuall sin? The truth is, the ability to sin was always there, that is why scripture says it came into the world through Adam, because he was created was before Eve.


i just fail to see how you can logically conclude that adam had an inclination to sin. it would be completely illogical for god to create adam that way


He created Adam with free will, and with that comes the ability to sin. If that's not logical enough for you I don't know how else to put it. By your logic, adam was not created with free will, not having the ability to sin, and if you follow that logic to it's conclusion, Adam never would have sinned now, would he? What you are saying is that it would be completely illogical for God to create man with free will, and we know that isn't the case.


[edit on 29/5/08 by doctorex]



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by doctorex
 


there is a misunderstanding. im not saying adam didnt have the ability to sin, he did. im saying he didnt have the inclination to sin.

we as imperfect will always push to sin. if we have a choice between sin and good, there is always temptation or drive to sin. it wasnt the same for adam.

adam understood his sin. it was willful rebellion. not because he couldnt resist the offer.

1 tim 2:14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

that constant temptation is the imperfection we inherited from adam



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


So in your view, did Eve not sin? Sin is the transgression of the law of God,

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

and Eve knew just as much as Adam that they were not to eat of the tree....

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Sin entered the world through Adam becuase he was the first created, not because he was the first to sin. Eve ate of the fruit before Adam did, but Eve came from Adam, and to say that Eve was tempted therefore she did not sin, only Adam did, is in my view incorrect, for obvious reasons, one of them being that whenever we transgress due to temptation, then it is not sin, which I'm sure you agree is not the case. When scripture says that through Adam sin entered into the world, it is a matter of lineage, since Eve was the first to sin, but she herself came through Adam, through his flesh, well, rib to be exact
. I'm sure if any of us were back in the shoes of Adam or Eve, we'd be no different, and would have done exactly the same. Being all knowing, and knowing Adam and Eve better than any father in history has know their children, I think God knew full well what was going to happen also. If it were so important for God's plan's to work that the two not eat of the tree, I seriously doubt God would have put it within reach in the first place. I think it was all part of the lesson, to show us where things lead when we don't follow God (the current age), and to be a comparrison to the millennial reign of Christ, a lesson that will be with us for all eternity. I guess it's like telling a child not to play with fire because they will burn themselves, knowing full well that if the child does get their hands on theose matches it will play with them, but when they do burn themselves, they will have a better chance of learning the lesson, realise that you were right, and never play with fire again.



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 08:54 AM
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If God exist surely he will not play games or accuse his own creation of sin before they could prove him wrong.
The original sin is a fallacy …it has no ground in the broad spiritual spectrum.
You’re a loser before starting! What kind of dogma is that?
And millions of people buy this day in day out.
The original sin of humanity is the incapacity to act for them self contrary to let other dictate for them what is write or wrong.
We all born wonderfully tuned, it is up to us to use our senses to be true to our self and surely not to any man made dogma.
kacou



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by doctorex
So in your view, did Eve not sin? “


no, quite the opposite. they both sinned. just the apostle only mentions adam when talking about how sin entered the world. but they both sinned. eve said she was decieved (maybe she did expect to be like god), but she still bears responsibility. she knew what she was doing because she quoted the law back to the serpent.


I'm sure if any of us were back in the shoes of Adam or Eve, we'd be no different, and would have done exactly the same.


im not sure i agree with that, they have free will as do we. it really is up to the person. im sure god had already considered all possible outcomes, but it was still their choice. that why they were rightly condemed for the action.


I think it was all part of the lesson, to show us where things lead when we don't follow God (the current age), and to be a comparrison to the millennial reign of Christ, a lesson that will be with us for all eternity. I guess it's like telling a child not to play with fire because they will burn themselves, knowing full well that if the child does get their hands on theose matches it will play with them, but when they do burn themselves, they will have a better chance of learning the lesson, realise that you were right, and never play with fire again.


i think that's a very good point. i dont think thats how god originaly intended it. but i could definatly see that as one of the "god turns something bad into something good"

if you dont mind, id like to enter this point into my notes



posted on May, 29 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by Lantian
 


sorry for the rant Lantian.



posted on Jun, 5 2008 @ 06:35 AM
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reply to post by pexx421
 


thanks for the Sophia suggestion pexx.


take care
res



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