reply to post by Frankidealist35
What do you think about my argument for the existence of a god?
I find it fascinating. I agree with what you say, but here is why it intrigues me: before I read the Gospels I had little or no concept of God, other
than maybe 'something, somewhere out there' in a very very vague sense'. And I'm pretty certain I would never have noticed that apparent design is
so intricate, so downright beautiful, that it ought really to make us stop and think.
This thread is one of the first I ever read on ATS, and it still blows my mind:
Not only are the videos it contains some of my favourites on ATS, they are some of my all-time lifetime favourites, which is why I've selected this
as one of my three favourite threads in my profile. (There are more than just the initial two short videos - keep going, and towards the end you'll
come across several more.) They are astounding.
If we, being so intelligent, couldn't possibly make an organic, self-replicating, self-healing living entity - even an insect - how could living
things possibly be the result of chance? The implication would be that chance is infinitely more intelligent than the human race, with all its
knowledge and technology. And there's an awful lot more than insects on this planet, not to mention human beings.
As I say, I can only see this with hindsight. You must be a deep thinker.
reply to post by Kronik98
I prefer that we are everything and everything is us, because if you go small enough, we are.
Just wondering, are you going to stop at what seems preferable, or keep digging?
If we were just atoms and molecules, how did they become so mind-bogglingly organized? Purposeful design is strongly indicative of... design. When
archeologists dig something up they look to see if it contains indications of design: a purposeful shape, or some artistry. Look at the animal world.
Look at the colours, shapes and patterns just at an external level: there is a lot more than camouflage. I'm convinced there is deliberate
Sometimes modern artists use random processes to create their work: paint streaming from cans tied to string hanging from a ceiling, and given a push,
for example. The results are interesting, but not beautiful in the way real art is. (Could you imagine a portrait or a landscape being painted in this
Think of the coral-reef fish, the birds of paradise, the eagle, the giraffe, a beautiful woman. Close your eyes and think through what this world
contains. To say nothing of flowers, plants and trees in their endless magnificent variety.
Who then, created God? Was it just there? Has it always been? Does it matter?
Boy are you asking important questions! The media and much of the modern education system try to quench people's desire to ask such things.
If there is a prime mover of everything, He was never created - it's logical, but difficult to get your head round at first. That's what 'eternal'
means, though: always there, and always will be. When God revealed Himself to Moses He said His name was "I am", also translated "I am that I
I've got a discussion going at the moment on what 'eternity' is, which you might also find interesting:
It's not just philosophy - the idea is to try and begin to understand how God can be eternal.
The idea of an external creator just bothers me for some reason.
That is so honest and articulate. I believe it has to do with the fact that if He's there He's my Maker, and I don't even know who He is.
The message of the Gospels and the whole Bible is: the Maker is not only real enough and intelligent enough to have made it all, He is (logically)
also intelligent enough to communicate with us. He is revealed as not visible, because what is visible is just something He made. But He thinks and
feels emotion, as we do. It goes as far as to say we were made in His image.
That's why, I believe, we differ from all other creatures.
If this is so, we are a lot more than atoms and molecules. Just as the essence of God is not visible, so with the essence of man. Our physical bodies
are just a tent for 'the real me', the intangible, yet oh so real conscious self. That, I believe, is the essence of being human. We think,
remember, reflect, ponder. We are aware of a moral
dimension to our existence. Right and wrong. This is a realm beyond flesh and blood: it is
the spiritual realm, and we are aware of it because we have a spirit; or, rather, are
a spirit, plus a body - that just enables us to inhabit
the physical earth.
Do these questions matter? Well, if what I say is correct, there is no reason to assume we cease to exist when the tent expires. What lies ahead? Now
there's a question...