real life magic

Why do people always throw wiccans into this kind of question? a lot of traditional witches find wicca , well find it to be wanting, and im not trying to put wiccans down here, wicca is a very very new practice, and its founder Gerald Gardner was to say the least deceitful, and you only have to do a small amount of research to discover that, to me its almost like a new kind of organised religion, too many people looking for labels, wanting to be high priest, or high priestess, some seem to forget they are supposed to be the earthly representation of the Goddess, which a lot have a hard time understanding.

True Magick is something that is given as a gift, and takes a very very long time to achieve, and i would say the people who really know the answer to the OP question, are the witches who wont respond to this thread, There are many levels of Magick and none of them involve stars shooting from a wand,

it is also a question where you have to be very careful which answer you are to believe, the powers of nature directed or focused on a task would be one of the only true answers you will hear, it is also something not to be played with, if used wrongly by someone who does not know what they are doing, can have dire consequences most of the time, and by dire i mean abuse of it for your own personal gain, goes against everything ever taught to a practitioner, and usually results in a hard lesson in life, say for instance you decide to try and curse someone using the Magick you think your an expert at (not anyone personaly) that energy because it is out of balance with what is intended for it, that energy will envelope itself around the person sending the curse, therefore causing problems until the balance is fixed.

Alot of people on here seem to have similar ideas as to what magik is as I do, Magik, some form or another are just universal laws and the manipulation of these laws. Unfortunately, we are naive when it comes to the universe and the laws that turns it's cogs, we place answers on causes and not effects, then try to explain how the cause IS the effect. Law of attraction, synchronociity, coincidence, intent, emotion, astral projection, lucid dreaiming, all good examples.

A personal example, 4 days ago, I realised I hadn't read the harry potter books recently (love those books, bring out the child in me!! ) I have only got the last 3, so I phoned my friend to lend the first 4 books. He was engaged the first time, so I rang back couple of minutes later and asked to lend the books. Turns out, he'd just got off the phone to his girlfriend and they'd been saying that they hadn't read the harry potter books for a while either and were going to start them again, crazy coincidence, but things like this happen alot in our group of friends (about 9 of us, all known each other since about 5-6) so I stopped attributing it to 'coincidence' along time ago.

I believe intent is a very important part of what we consider 'magik' and why alot of people have tried and failed to accomplish 'true' magik, this and a lack of understanding of the principals that govern it, if, with current theory, there are 12 dimensions and infinite universes, who the hell are we to say that magik doesn't exist.

People say this POV disregards of logic, then we must have very different views on logic!! To know so little as we know about our current world (not to mention universe!!) and to spout that magic doesn't exist, so absolute, is to throw logic out the window. You can never prove that magik doesn't exist so the logical statement would be that 'from said evidence and observation, probability that 'magik' existing seems to be very slim indeed'. For your logik to work, you must accept that you know nothing and accept the probablity for everything.

This all said, everyone has their own version of what magik is, few words and the wave of a wand? unknown universal laws? ceremonial practice? or just the fact that you spend your days trying to get as many people to smile and laugh as possible? I could find more magik in a comedy club than any church, but again that is ME not YOU.

thanks. EMM

p.s I saw a post before saying that Magik and science are essentially two heads of the same beast and I agree, 2 different meanings of the same phenomena. For instance, the ether or 'cosmic energy' are often related to 'esoteric' and said to be very important in the weilding of magiks, Tesla refered to ,what we now think to be ZPE, his 'sea of energy' or 'the very wheels that turn the universe' as 'the ether', we could already be marrying these with the extension of plasma cosmology and ZP research, we just don't understand the principals in relation to ourselves yet, but we will eventually.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

I couldn't bring myself to read the whole thread, but...

Clarke's Third Law
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
- Art C. Clarke

Let's see... Photographic memory, phantom limb, psychics employed by criminal investigation organizations, all may be labeled "magic."
-Remote viewing/psychic researchers with positive data in lab/controlled conditions:
Ullman, Krippner & Honorton
Valerie Hunt
Puthoff &Targ
Jahnn & Dunne
Jule Eisenbud
Helmut Schmidt
Tenhaeff & Valkhoff
Poniatowski
Haralldson & Osis (field)

.... I could go on and on and on... so don't listen to people who make statements about what has and what hasn't been demonstrated in controlled conditions. I have seen a few highly improbable events in highly controlled conditions. The universe is not a swiss timepiece, sorry.
And physics is only just beginning to scratch the surface...

What? No more completely baseless blanket statements about the objective reality of "magic?"
C'mon magicologists or magicticians or skeptics. Any more final truths?
We're waiting for your infinite wisdom and intimate knowledge of every experiment ever conducted to be revealed to us lowly ignoramuses.

I don't know much about witches and hoodoo types of magic, but there are other forms of majic out there, well they are more skills than "true" majic.

For instance NLP- Neuro linguistic programming.

or Hypnosis even.

I mean many of todays and I'm sure earlier people who were deemed "witches", or "warloks" most likely had a good understanding of these techniques, and practiced greatly in the art of sleight of hand.

The first two NLP, and Hypnosis, are iffy, because there is something takeing place within the brain, the majician is actually forcing the subjects brain to work differently, that could be magic.

Sleight of hand is neccesary for any would be magician, stage/or real life.

For beforeming things like what is that surgeory they do? with no tools or anestesia,(forget the name), but that could be considered witchcraft, but really, it's only sleight of hand, and stage presence ect.

For anyone that's never heard of NLP, well I'm sure most Brits have, you have the master on your tele. But if your unfamiliar Derren Brown is one of the best.

Watch NLP at work in this short clip. Notice all the objects placed in the room also, and listen to him closely as he talks, he's very fast, and sneaky.

www.youtube.com...


make sure to watch the very end, it shows the reveale, and all the references to BMX bike, he threw at this poor guy in a short span of time. Plus I think there was a hypnotic handshake induction used on the guy (Simon Pegg), before he goes to work on him. As he touches his shoulder evertime, he uses one of the NLP words.

Amazing stuff though, man I wish they had Derren Brown on TV here, so much better than that piss poor wanna be Criss Angle. All stooges, camera tricks, cgi, and props.

This here, is real magic.


[edit on 28-5-2008 by Nola213]

Well just to add my two cents on the topic of magick...

In my world view there are two distinct ways of perceiving the world.Dealing in extremes these are matters of Reason and Faith.Science is to reason as religion is to faith.Though that being said no scientist is without faith and no religious person is without reason, these are measurements of two definable extremes.One is on one side of the line, the other is one the opposite side.We all have certain bents towards either side which define our actions.No one is exactly the same in this respects though most from what I've seen is 60 of one and 40 of another.

Magick requires faith, the act of believing unconditionally in something very abstract.Science requires reason, as something that requires evidence and supporting aspects.Reason and faith both have a common trait of creating more views that are like itself.A reasonable person will seek reasonable ideas, as a faithful person will seek faithful ideas in the mode of thinking.In this both sides can be very closed minded.

The problem with trying to use science to determine the existence of magick is to me a ludicrous idea.Science is limited primarily by its instruments, instruments that can determine things that our senses cannot apprehend.If science does not have the tools necessary to analyze and measure a type of force prevalent in the universe it simply won't know it can exist.It wasn't soo long ago that the existence of black-holes were completely unnoticed by science.They were detected by accident through gamma rays.No one has seen black-holes, taken by their nature.Though they are a credible facet in the scientific community as something that exists yet no one has seen it.There are many facets to the study of magick as there are areas of science in which to define the world around us.Without science we would be still believing in myths and probably still dying from a score of diseases and things that we would still be attributing to devils and satan rather than bacteria and viruses.Though without faith the world would lose its color "so to speak".Faith is connected to the emotional self, the part of us that connects with the people and the world around us.Albeit,it may be a self-sustained illusion.

Magick is what colors the world for most people.Magick takes many forms,usually gods and such.The belief of magick is similar to science in that it is a system of beliefs.Magick is to the energy body as science is to the physical body.Science is what defines our physical world, magick is what defines the abstract,the psyche,the world of connected energy which underlies the physical world.It may be that science has not yet accomplished the tools to discover this frontier and it may one day.Magick,Religion, and science are no different in that they are means of viewing the world.Taken from my desires to see a world based on freedom of expression, I feel each system of belief has its merits.A balance must be struck, for there to be harmony.



[edit on 28-5-2008 by ~Waffles~]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by ~Waffles~]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by ~Waffles~]

there is a reason that they dont do it in a controlled environment.
there was a man who was took into a secret testing facilty who said he could 'teleport' so, he was put nta an air tight room in chains and the sperviser blinked (they had tested many times before) bt this time there was a note it read: "i've had enough of your poking and proding you said you would paay me so im off" and they never saw him again. Well of what i Know this is a true story and he had no friends of family so there was no need for a cover up and only the retiring sientists are starting to tell.

reply to post by omg aliens are so real


To say there is no magic, is to say that there is nothing beyond our present understanding. Or that there is nothing that we cannot explain.
Both of which seem pretty ignorant to me.

Majick....if you'd prefer that spelling... is science in it's most raw form.

Problem with "science" for the past few centuries is that it's been the blind leading the blind. Our consciousness has been blanketed by thought control mechanisms for a long time.

I don't look at magick in spiritual terms, either. If you are looking at the world in that way, you aren't getting the picture. You aren't seeing why one piece of the puzzle affects the other piece.

It's all one thing (everything), and therefore, there is nothing that isn't magic, because even your smallest movement affects something in the greater scheme of things. It's just a matter of figuring out which types of movements, rituals, symbols, when cast out into existence, will create the most immediate and the most powerful effects.

The butterfly effect. It's like... which movements/symbols will create the tiny flutter, which upon it's return, will have swelled into a giant tidal wave?

I'm learning why magick works before I do anything as foolish as blindly abusing it. I suggest that everyone studies existence and their own consciousness before attempting anything with spells or rituals. Meditate long and hard.

If anyone here can point me in the direction of my "next step", I'd gladly appreciate it.

I remember reading somewhere that "The Butterfly Effect" was in recognition that a butterfly on one side of the world,flapping it's wings,can cause a hurricane on another side of the world.

To answer your question Dun besides meditation, you must learn how to stop the internal dialogue or silencing the mind.It is believed that our thoughts is what keeps our attention and energy monopolized.Therefore we have little to no attention to spend on other pursuits.Its important to free up your awareness and energy for engaging in such tasks.It's a bit of a struggle to attain sustained silence within oneself because we are soo used to talking to ourselves with our thoughts that engage reality.Though once attained, its a crucial platform from which you can move onto the next step.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by ~Waffles~]

Yes, there are witches and wizards in this world. I am a Wiccan myself and often "do" magic. One of the best definitions of magic I've come across is that it is the art of causing change in conformity with the will. Sometimes change is rapid and readily visible, other times it's slow, steady and minimally invasive. Blessed be.

I had success with meditation early on... but after an out of body adventure into the great beyond, I think the "watchers" got the best of me... and I've since been blocked from being able to get anywhere. It's a long story... but yeah I can silence the mind, but I can't stop the other forces from interfering with the body relaxation that is required. I get poked, stabbed, pushed, seized, burned, shocked, and clapped at (literally some"one" clapping in my face).

I've come this far already, even with much difficulties cast forth my way. What I need now is a method to deal with these invisible forces. They are beings.

I need somebody who knows what I am talking about. I've tried white light meditation and all that stuff, but it does no good when your mind is physically being invaded by invisible forces, and blocked from going any further. I literally sometimes go into seizure and/or get extreme migraines when attempting, it's gotten so bad. I don't know exactly where to look for a useful weapon to keep these forces at bay. There's so much disinfo, I've become weary of wading through it all.

I'm not risking what got me into this mess again. Who knows what kind of thing could open a pathway for more harmful beings to come and mess with my well-being.

Real life magic, eh?

Won't find it these days. To much going on, to much barring us from the source.

Think back. Tales of magic/magik and mystics. When were they at the watermark? Before Technology.

This means one of two things. Technology proved Magic fake. Or... we have grown to such proportions as to be walled off from Nature, thus loosing our connection to the source.

Druids, Oracles, Wizards, Witches. Druids were Wise, Oracles spoke directly to the gods, Wizards studied tomes to learn precise rituals requiring great Intelligence, and Witches were very close to the Druid model.

What did they all have in common? A close bond to Nature. The powers of this world COME FROM THIS WORLD. One who associates so closely and has the Wisdom to learn from his surroundings may find a link to something more. A greater understanding of unknown power and perception, and how to create and shape with it.

Just my theory. The further we get from what was, the less likely those things will ever be.

Hmm, in what way are these forces interfering with your practices Dun?Like do they force you to think again?Also, besides physical phenomena how do you know they are there.Any feelings? Or sounds?

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Here is a tip that can help you in your journey; The ancient art of animation, or giving life to an object. You can create an independent entity that will assist you with your goals. It is known as an egregore and the results can be very real. I suggest you research "egregore magick" and decide if you want to go this route. If you need help, message me in private.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by nikolat23]

Seriously. Much better discussion. Doggone. Thank you, folks. Arguing about what is real, as you all know, is pointless. Good stuff and I learned a couple things too!

Thats wonderful to hear Djer ^~^,also I received your message though I can't respond till I get 20 posts.Hope to talk to you soon >~

Originally posted by djerwulfe
Seriously. Much better discussion. Doggone. Thank you, folks. Arguing about what is real, as you all know, is pointless. Good stuff and I learned a couple things too!

What???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sorry, but I've never heard something that support ignorance quite as much as what you've just said.

Arguing about what is real is NOT pointless, it's almost all that people here do.

No, you know, you're right, "Oh shucks, real life magic IS real, there's no point arguing with me, this way you can't prove me wrong, tee hee."

No, not mature.

Arguing about things being real not only helps prove things wrong, (That's right, don't burn all skeptics JUST yet,) but it is also the only way to prove things RIGHT. It offers chances to explain.

So if you believe in the paranormal or NOT, that is so wrong in so many ways.

Oh, "as you all know"? If they knew it was pointless, they wouldn't invest their time and effort into something they might feel very passionately about, I haven't read their posts, so I can't say for certain, but saying that, in such a patronising demeanor, is just plain insulting.

Sorry for the massive personal attack here, but such a line is sickeningly full of stupidity, patronisation, and insult.

Denying ignorance? Try a little harder.

I think what he meant was, that in by arguing about the substance of reality is a dead-end concept.The red pill VS the blue pill analogy made popular by the matrix.Its difficult to discuss reality because anyone can argue in favor of its concrete behaviour, but others can just as easily argue about how reality is a facet of perception rather than a true plane of awareness or existence.Both sides would have valid points.Though there could really be no definitive absolute truth because it involves things that continue to remain an abstract concept not yet defined.It is also to note that people will argue on subjects they think they can win, when although the subject is pointless and will not benefit them in any way they are not cognizant of this and seek to win a battle that has no meaning.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by ~Waffles~]

One of the great selling points, if you will, of early monastic evangelicals in Europe was Christ's power could drive out demons. This was avery important issue for many people at that time.