MRSA - Proof of Evolution in Action

Evolution as we know is a slow process taking many generations, that's why when we look over millions of years of mammalian evolution we have to look for the smallest of changes and eventually the adaptations construct an entirely new species, unable to mate with it's early predecessors and wholly different. However it's not much different to the 2000 or more fossilts that came between it and the original ancestor. Generations in mammals, reptiles and other trees of evolution can last many years and so evolution is observed slowly.

Creationists however seem to see years and generations as the same thing, they are looking for fast changes in the fossil record, somewhere out there should be a half fish, half reptile freak in their eyes. It should be therefore explained to each creationist the clear difference bewteen generations and years. Proof of evolution can be observed far more readily in a species that has many generations over a very short period. Whilst the changes themselves are individually slow, the generations are here and gone again so quickly and numerously that we can see the start point and the end product at an increased pace. That's where bacteria come in.

Bacteria have many generations in the space of hours and so are the perfect things to observe when looking for further verification of evolution. Currently in UK hospitals there are problems with so called "superbugs". MRSA is one of the bigger bugs we're dealing with, whist this little microbe was once easily annihilated by our most basic of antibiotics, it is now a serious health issue and very hard to treat. Even with a wide spectrum of antibiotics it can still survive and kill a patient, despite the best efforts of doctors.

It is able to do this because a while ago one of it's ancestors managed to survive, by a random mutation, that allowed it to last longer versus an antibiotic. The first resistant MRSA microbe probably died, it would have very likely only just lasted a little longer than it's fellows, however it lasted long enough to divide and pass on this gene that gave it resistance. As more and more generations survived the gene became stronger as the versions of the bacteria without the gene died fast inside their host.

This continued for a long time as the bacteria was treated with more and more antibiotics in an attempt to stop it. Scientists often say how they have trouble keeping up with developing new drugs against MRSA. The reason is of course simple, because MRSA can go through thousands of generatins, in a very short time and so increase it's chances of mutating into a resistant form.

news.bbc.co.uk...

So here we have it, in my eyes and the eyes of scientists a very clear and active evolutionary adaptation. Survival of the fittest at it's best, or worst if you look at the implications of the bacteria.

MRSA isnt a health concern.. thats all media hype. Theres 2 ways to treat it, anti-biotics if its not full form.... oooor in my case

Go to a doctor, dont get any pain killers, freeze a portion of your body with a nice spray, cut said portion open, watch goo fly out, clean said goo, remove anything in area that is infected, pack with 3 feet of gauz, go home and wait 24 hours, take 3 feet of stuff out, clean 3 times a day whilst screaming at the tearing of things inside of you, rinse and repeat for 3 weeks. Ta da! MRSA gone!

reply to post by The Bear Man


Sounds awful, i hope yoou're ok now!

Whether it is a health concern r not isn't the main issue of this thread. It's more about the fact that MRS has shown adaptation in line with evolution theory.

Im fine, but I have a new belly button.

It can also be said that the Flu and other highly adaptive discrepensys are proof of evolution as well then, a lot of things change to adapt, heck even I do, does that make proof? Maybe. Im all for evolution in all honesty, I dont like to think I was created by anything more then.. *cough* well.. When a Man loves a Woman they.. Hold hands young Timmy, and when they hold hands they dance, which is what made you. Catch my drift?

Originally posted by The Bear Man
MRSA isnt a health concern.. thats all media hype.

I honestly have to disagree with you on your initial statement. It is a major concern, especially for patients who are too weak to fight off the infection.

I was really surprised to see anything about this topic - I just stopped by ATS between checking my email and going to bed. My grandfather died of complications with his MRSA staph infection Sunday night, I'm flying out tomorrow for the funeral. I felt I had to post something, it was just too big of a coincidence to see this in the new topics.

He was 89 and in a rest home because of small strokes he's had over the past few years. In his weakened state he periodically came down with pneumonia. Two weeks ago he developed pneumonia again, and in that even weaker state he caught a staph infection (in his lungs of all places) and never recovered.

Again, strange to see this topic right now.

Here's a more notable evolution example.

Italian wall lizards introduced to a tiny island off the coast of Croatia are evolving in ways that would normally take millions of years to play out, new research shows.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

True, in weaker people it will most likely kill them, but your grandfather was 89 and obviously having health issues as is. Im not saying it wont kill you, infact I almost died as it had spread into my lungs(I had the boilish thing under my armpit, which had a large infection leading into my heart and lungs)

The fact is, its not a concern if properly treated, the doctor even brought on a studend to do the procedure, stating he had seen it every day and its very simple to remove.

Would your doctor really let a student hold your life if it was such the devestator that news puts forth?

MRSA is a resistant form of the SAME bacterium. At best it is natural selection. The resistance seems to be attributable to a resistance plasmid (piece of extrachromosomal DNA). Ask yourself one thing - flies and bacteria have had millions of years worth of mutation and natural selection and yet have retained their speciation. Coincidence or Design?

The coelacanth, known from fossil records dating back more than 360 million years.

I remember when this fish was supposedly the precursor to walking fish that evolved into land animals yet they are alive today and have not evolved at all in that time hmmm?

The reason why the superbugs are killing so many people isn't because its evolving to fight off anti-biotics its because its being given the room and time to evolve on hopital apparatus, apparatus which should be so clean you can have your lunch off it!

Because of the NHS budget crisis they have to look at ways to cut costs, one way they have done this is by laying off about 85% of ward cleaners in hospitals, does anyone else think this is ridiculous? they have chosen to save £££ at the cost of cleanliness which in turn costs lives and now theres this whole media frenzy about how dirty the hospitals are.

This farce could be sorted out if they reverted back to the original number of cleaners instead of trying to use skeleton crews.

I dont know what the government are playing at, they know exactly why these bugs are running rampant, and they know exactly how to stop it.

I aplogise for my post digressing from the OP but this is the real reason why so many people are dying of MRSA,CDiff etc.

*EDIT* Reply to The Bear Man

"Would your doctor really let a student hold your life if it was such the devestator that news puts forth?"

You better belive he would, I've heard of some pretty bad things going on in the NHS and some others which are down right frightening.

Glad you got better man

[edit on 30-5-2008 by fred3110]

Erm guys, this thread wasn't abot NHS spending, cleaners, other animals liek the fish mentioned. It was about MRSA evolving and showing clear signs of becoming resistant to antibiotics. Something that could only happen due to genetic evolution.

ok? thats micro-evolution. big whoop. everyone knows about that.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
The coelacanth, known from fossil records dating back more than 360 million years.

I remember when this fish was supposedly the precursor to walking fish that evolved into land animals yet they are alive today and have not evolved at all in that time hmmm?

well they have evolved

not a lot as they suit the conditions they live in but they are different to how they were

a species event happened splitting them into 2 groups one continued to evolve in shallow waters(all the fossil ones come from shallow water enviroments) the other(the one we find now) headed for deep water where legs really wouldnt help so natural sleection prevented thier evolution that way which is why thier fins are different to the ones found in the fossil record

www.world-science.net...



[edit on 19/12/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by JaneFonda
ok? thats micro-evolution. big whoop. everyone knows about that.

umm no such thing as micro evolution

theres evolution, micro evolution is a descriptive term for a state of evolution not a seperate thing

think of it like a car (hate mechanical methaphors they doint really work for biological processes)

evolution = car

the car can be staionary or moving its still a car were just applying a different descriptive term to its state

or apply it to age

a person(evolution) can be young or old but they are still the same person just different descriptors


back to superbugs ^_^

HIV is mutating as well, there are now some strains of hiv2 that are semi drug resitant as well as several strains of hiv1, we have also found a much much older version of it in monkey populations that have been isolated for several thousand years showing SIV the original version has its roots way back rather then a modern new virus

and SARS was originally a bat virus that crossed the divide and some were able to infect people, cue lots of asians running around in paper face masks