Jobless UK Youths To Be Put Into Camps

I certainly think we need to give serious thought to inhibiting the prevelant mindset that a life on benefits and never having to work is a birthright. The welfare dependency culture has bred all sorts of problems in the UK, not least anti-social behaviour because personal responsibility/accountability has been allowed to atrophy. That's not ALL people on benefits but certainly true of those where living on benefits has become a generational aspiration. I don't think bootcamps are the answer, although they'd be great for people who inflict violent atrocities on the innocent, but being unemployed of itself isn't exactly a criminal offence.

I suspect this is all vote garnering bluster from the tory's although I'd welcome a hardline approach to deal with the problems we have regarding chav culture.

What about people with mental problems...im currently unemployed...i fix valve amplifiers though as a spare time thing,i simply COULDN'T go to a bootcamp because of my problems...does this mean i will still get forced to go?...Another reason i dont want to be part of the UK....

Originally posted by Cantwara
I certainly think we need to give serious thought to inhibiting the prevelant mindset that a life on benefits and never having to work is a birthright. The welfare dependency culture has bred all sorts of problems in the UK, not least anti-social behaviour because personal responsibility/accountability has been allowed to atrophy.

I do think those two statements are very true. A welfare dependency cultcher has been created.

I suspect this is all vote garnering bluster from the tory's although I'd welcome a hardline approach to deal with the problems we have regarding chav culture.

This whole thing being for vote garnering I think is also a real possibility. Or just a political ploy as I might have stated it. I do think a hardliner approach is what will be needed to end the welfare dependent cultcher.

NATIONAL SERVICE, NATIONAL SERVICE, NATIONAL SERVICE

Thats exactly what we need in this country. Yes we have a proffesional military force but i believe this should be supported by a home guard made up of National Service folk ie people between 18-20.

It works and i know it does. I was once one of those 16 year old thugs who hung around all night looking for trouble permantely getting stopped and searched by the Police. (This is also from someone who has 11 uncles and aunts in the police and a father and mother as ex police)

I was to say the least a little barstud. So where my friends and are general night time activity would include, drinking, smoking, fighting,
vandalism, you name it we did it and this was in Liverpool a city that now has a serious gun culture. My ambition was to be a proffesional boxer and and fight.

Now??? Well now 14 years later i am a very respected businessman who works for a major international company. I have a superb house, 3 kids, a Mrs, 2 new cars on the drive way and enough money to do as i want when i want. My children want for nothing and will never ever see the type of life i once lived.

How did i do this massive leap?? Simple really i joined the Military at 16 years of age and gave this country 6 years of my life. In return i gained a massive amount of self discipline, Self respect and most of all a desire to work hard to ensure my future family had the best life they could and now im doing that and am very comfortable

My Friends? Well when i visit Liverpool usually once a fortnight to visit parents i see some of my old friends hanging round, Drinking alochol non stop, Consuming huge amounts of drugs, living off the state on handouts with unknown amounts of children to boost their income amounts and gain their free council house.

The amount of times i have said "Why dont you do something with your life and go on a course or something" The answer..... "I dont need to the goverment pays for everything i need"

I took that chance and it worked for me. I dont believe children of today should be offered that chance but more make it something they have to do. NATIONAL SERVICE

So would you say, with regards to the problems we're having in the UK today, that the best way to deal with people is to make them accountable and responsible for themselves. Do you think the practice of giving people mutpile chances and no consequences is damaging and creates a self obssessed mindset, or is there a way to use the best of both systems to nurture the best in people.

I say this because at one point in my youth I was a bit of an arsehole too and whenever I got caught out I'd fall back on the whole 'it's not my fault, there's nothing for us to do, nobody understands what it's like for us kids, it's not fair blah blah BS. Luckily, at that point in time, people weren't scared to give you a kick up the arse when you tried to pull that stunt (and make no mistake I was very well aware it was a stunt). God knows how I would've turned out if we'd had todays bleeding heart culture.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I'm sorry Imaginary, I should have been clear when I referred to "bad backs". I used to work in insurance and "bad back" was a derogatory term for insurance fraudsters. They're the type who trip over a peanut on the pavement and then sue someone for millions, stating a 'bad back' as a result of the accident prevents them from working. Then they'd be videoed limbo dancing or playing rugby. Sounds like fun but it really does increase premiums for everyone which piddles me off. I use "bad back" to describe benefit fraudsters who cite a bad back as the reason they're on incapacity benefit. There are so many "bad backs" around here you'd think it was airborne.

It annoys the shoot out of me as well because my dad is subject to occasional slipped discs and a former friend has a condition where 2 or 3 of her discs are actually disintegrating. She has a choice - have an operation to fuse her lower spine and risk a 50% chance of ending up in a wheelchair, or do nothing and end up in a wheelchair. She spends her time being creative, selling art and crafts rather than rely on benefits.

Hope that's clarified that I wasn't being nasty to people with genuine medical conditions.

Originally posted by Cantwara

So would you say, with regards to the problems we're having in the UK today, that the best way to deal with people is to make them accountable and responsible for themselves. Do you think the practice of giving people mutpile chances and no consequences is damaging and creates a self obssessed mindset, or is there a way to use the best of both systems to nurture the best in people.

I say this because at one point in my youth I was a bit of an arsehole too and whenever I got caught out I'd fall back on the whole 'it's not my fault, there's nothing for us to do, nobody understands what it's like for us kids, it's not fair blah blah BS. Luckily, at that point in time, people weren't scared to give you a kick up the arse when you tried to pull that stunt (and make no mistake I was very well aware it was a stunt). God knows how I would've turned out if we'd had todays bleeding heart culture.

Sure i really do believe National Service would work. Hell most other European countries do it. I recently visited both Amsterdam and Switzerland. Patrolling the airport at Amsterdam were young gentlemen in military fatigues and armed and definitely proud of what they were doing. Same in Switzerland and i even managed a drink or two with a few off duty but uniformed young gentlemen who told me they were having a great experience.

Youth in UK at the moment are not your old fashioned kids causing a bit of trouble. They are mostly dressed in black, Hooded and sometimes masked gangs. Hanging around outside late stores, Bus shelters etc. Hell my own Mrs wont even go the shop at night in case they are outside because they love to imtimidate every person who walks past. The girls are just as bad in fact sometimes worse. Usually drunk or smoking weed and very very imtimidating. Thats just your average town but then you go to a place like my home city of Liverpool where these kids now have guns.

Get em off the streets and give them something to do. National service takes away the gang culture and installs respect, discipline and pride and most of all a decent generation for every generation

[edit on 4-6-2008 by thesaint]

reply to post by MajjicMouse


Oh no no, i know you wern't having a go at me. I just find it annoying that i was able to work wth a disk completely ruined in my back, i even did martial arts and yet these layabouts claim back pain as a reason not to work! That's what bugs the hell out of me.

Originally posted by thesaint
Sure i really do believe National Service would work. Hell most other European countries do it. I recently visited both Amsterdam and Switzerland. Patrolling the airport at Amsterdam were young gentlemen in military fatigues and armed and definitely proud of what they were doing. Same in Switzerland and i even managed a drink or two with a few off duty but uniformed young gentlemen who told me they were having a great experience.

Youth in UK at the moment are not your old fashioned kids causing a bit of trouble. They are mostly dressed in black, Hooded and sometimes masked gangs. Hanging around outside late stores, Bus shelters etc. Hell my own Mrs wont even go the shop at night in case they are outside because they love to imtimidate every person who walks past. The girls are just as bad in fact sometimes worse. Usually drunk or smoking weed and very very imtimidating. Thats just your average town but then you go to a place like my home city of Liverpool where these kids now have guns.

Whilst i respect that national service may have worked for some people, i odn' like the idea of training some of these kids in the art of warfare. Lets remember, we're seeing an increase not only in simple violence, but acts without conscience. Do we want those people in the army?

I think a punishment system, designed so you can't stay on benefits unless you're proven ill, would be enough to fix things. Furthermore any kids found to be misbehaving should be taken back to their parents and their parents told their benefits will be docked until they sort out their kids behavior.

Parents often don't take responsibility until the police turn up nowadays, and even then they often don't seem to care. So dock ther benefits until they take some action in their kids lives.

I think that's one of the biggest problems, parents don't care if their children are out at 10pm, god when i was 14 if i was out at that time my parents would have found me and given me a hell of a telling off, strippped all entertainment from my room and told me i wouldn't be going out for the next month. Lots of parents just don't do that anymore.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

I think these days national service is veiwed in a far broader context whereby it instills and encourages the the idea of self discipline but the service may be more civilian based so weapons aren't being put into the hands of sociopathic youngsters.

In all fairness to people of a certain age, I don't see the problems we have as exclusive to youth but spread across the ages. It's about anti-social behaviour and non accountability. But something that catches them while they're still young and fosters some kind of self respect and respect for others is a good idea.

reply to post by Cantwara


Cantwara
I think you made a good point about it not necessarily being confined to just the youth but spread across a wider age bracket. Also to point about instilling accountability is good.

reply to post by Cantwara


That's very true. Whilst we usually think of people between the ages of 10-18 when we think of anti social behavior, it's now common place to see it in people of age 20+. Watching some 30 year old idiot, swill fosters lager and smoke on his front door step whilst his 5 year old runs abt on the lawn is hardly a good example. Oh and that wasn't a hypothetical i've seen that one.

A social national service sounds a lot better i like your idea. I also don't want weapons placed into the hands of these seemingly sociopathic youths. However a sociopath will always do harm regardless of being trained and that's what worries me about the current upbringing. They seem to have no conscience, and a society with an increasing population of such people is doomed to an awful crime rate.

It's about coercion and obeisance to society-as-god.
Find an altruistic occupation and be suppressed,
laughed at, spit upon or murdered for that. Brain-
entrainment: see reality and define happiness "our"
way according to media-culture standards; ("We
will control all you see and hear.") Work hard to
meet them, get rich in 50 years (if you're lucky),
suck up and schmooze with bankeing/investment
'elite' (the real and invisible parasites), eat, sleep,
breed, and die. Fail to learn anything really significant.

reply to post by RedGolem


That least the UK is thinking about their youths, engaging them with some sort of outlet to their addiction to X-box. This speaks volumes about their cousins across the Atlantic.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
However a sociopath will always do harm regardless of being trained and that's what worries me about the current upbringing. They seem to have no conscience, and a society with an increasing population of such people is doomed to an awful crime rate.

I have this horrible suspicion that things have gone so far down the road, with regards to violence and brutality and it's acceptability within sections of British society, that the only way we'll get things back on track is by adopting some pretty draconian measures. We either have the balls to do that or else society goes under. Perhaps I'm being too pessamistic but, while I'm all for rehabilitating and guiding people who've lost their way, these only work when there are moral and ethical axioms you can appeal to. These attributes seem in short supply where the worst offenders are concerned. The only way to keep them in line is by using unfashionable concepts like punishment and fear of the consequences.