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Why Obama.....WHY?!

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posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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Ok, if you know me and my posts, you will know that I'm an Obama supporter, but he just said something that really upset and bothered me in this speech he just finished up with.

I still support Obama over the other 2 candidates, but I just thought I'd start a thread about something that bothered me.

He just basically said we should "ban protests next to [soldier's] funerals".

This is spitting on the very thing these men and women are dying for. People were cheering when he said this. Will they really throw away their given rights so easily?

This need to avoid offending people is going way, WAY too far. I think people need to realize that no matter what they do or say, there will ALWAYS be people who are offended. They need to deal with it. And by taking away our freedoms to suit these people, we're letting our rights slip right through our fingers.




posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Bigbert, I understand that you are making a point about the importance of protecting "freedom of speech."

But, I know how devastated I would feel if one of my family members were killed in the course of service....I would just completely blow a fuse if that posse of religious zealots (I can't remember the family name...some preacher/lawyer and his children) showed up during the funeral services with their "GOD HATES....." signs, spewing hate & bigotry & bible propoganda....their freedom of speech would end where my foot begins.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by ezziboo
 


Hey, I can understand the feelings these family members must go through, it must be horrible. But to start taking away the reasons their loved ones supposedly died for is horrible. This is how it starts, people get offended, so let's change the country and strip people of their rights so that they DON'T get offended. If it keeps going like this, we're going to be a purely fascist country.

With all due respect, people like you who think that same way, and justify this happening, are the people who take away my freedoms.

[edit on 5/26/2008 by bigbert81]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


WHY? I think it is because (at least the Democrats) are sick and tired of the status quo and the tried and true... Clinton represents old school while Obama, his youth and enthusium represent a refreshing break from the party standard bearers... and it doesn't hurt he is well spoken either.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


People like me?!? Tell me, BigBert, just how many "people" do you think would willingly tolerate a crackpot protest during a funeral, be it for a solder or not? I wouldn't give a CRAP about the 1st Amendment in that instance, I can assure you...

And, please explain to me exactly how you arrived at the conclusion that the way I think can "take away your freedoms"....?

[edit on 26-5-2008 by ezziboo]

[edit on 26-5-2008 by ezziboo]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by ezziboo
 


First, chill. I was just making a point in the regards that the way you are thinking, (and trust me, you're definitely NOT alone), is the way people think when they take away your freedoms.

Look at the FCC for example.

The problem is that you let your own personal feelings and offenses take over instead of looking at to why this country is SUPPOSED to be great in the first place.

What good is being proud of your country if they strip the rights that founded this nation because you offended someone?

[edit on 5/26/2008 by bigbert81]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by ezziboo
reply to post by bigbert81
 

(I can't remember the family name...some preacher/lawyer and his children) showed up during the funeral services with their "GOD HATES....." signs, spewing hate & bigotry & bible propoganda


The name you forgot is probably Westboro Baptist Church. That sick, twisted, EVIL family has destroyed funerals both by showing up and by threatening their intent to show up.

To the OP, while I don't support Obama, I do agree with his proposal. The point you may have missed is the places that HAVE restricted this evil group did NOT restrict their right to protest. Those places that made restrictions merely made them protest more than a thousand feet or so away! It's more like a restraining order to protect the grievers.

Therefore, notice the words "next to" in your candidate's statement! "Next to"! Get it? You jumped to conclusions. Obama didn't say to restrict their rights to be total you-know-whats! They'd still be allowed to protest, just not NEXT TO the grieving family.

[edit on 26-5-2008 by Trexter Ziam]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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Let us all remember this...

The freedoms we enjoy only extend to the point that they interfere with others freedoms..There they end and are no longer protected actions...

"You can't yell fire in a theater"
"Your house can be searched if there is PC you committed a crime"
and on point...

"Your protest CAN NOT disrupt a function of others enjoying their freedoms"..

If the people at the legitimate gathering, exercising their right to assemble at the funeral, are disrupted by protesters, the protesters have to cease and desist.

Who has the greater right to be there? The funeral goers or the protesters?

Why the attendees of the funeral of course.

Semper



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by bigbert81
 


Clinton represents old school while Obama, his youth and enthusium represent a refreshing break from the party standard bearers... and it doesn't hurt he is well spoken either.


Given this comment, I'd say he's a break from the party standard bearers all right-- spoken more like someone from the other party.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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The intent of the First Amendment was to protect and ensure every citizen's right to criticize the government...

I really don't see how anyone with a heart would think that prohibiting someone from screaming obscenities at grieving family members during a funeral would credibly endanger our right to free speech...it's a matter of one party's rights ending where another party's rights begin.

Obama was speaking of banning protests by groups like those led by the Phelps family, led by Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church...thanks, Trexter!)...and it's long freakin' overdue, in my opinion.

link to info:

en.wikipedia.org...






[edit on 26-5-2008 by ezziboo]

[edit on 26-5-2008 by ezziboo]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by kattraxx
 


Trust me I am about as liberal as they come and I will vote for Obama even though I am not exactly thrilled about it.

I am just saying that one of the things that is fueling his campaign is the fact that he is different from the John Kerry's or Al Gore's or Hillary Clinton's etc.

Whether he is or not is besides the point, that is how he is seen.

After all the 3 I mentioned are all part of the Democratic Leadership Council... the group that has done more to effectively neuter the party in their push to the middle until it became little more than conservative lite.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


I am also an Obama supporter and I take issue with this ban also. With that said however could it be that our future president is striking a balance. The Bush administration has banned the documentation of fallen soilders upon their return, leaving us without the visulas needed to keep the collective mind on the sacrifice, and all the while stripping away the things that protect and heal our soilders.

Obama will have his work cut out for him as McCain will try to convince us that he is the only champion for our soilders. I could be wrong..probably am.. but if I were in the same spot as Obama I would protect the fallen as much as protect those that still fight on.

Who is it besides that whacko Phelps that demonstrates at soilders funerals? I believe our first amendment rights should be protected at all cost but when I see Phelps I want to tie him down and light a few cigaretts.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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Bert, normally I agree with you but I am going to have to suggest you step away from the edge here.

Your rights end where mine begin. Protest all you want against public officials, government agencies or even individuals / institutions / corporations charged with a crime or suspected of unethical conduct... but a funeral? PUHLEASE. At the very least keep a respectable distance.

A soldier might be an agent of the government when he/she dies...but when they are buried by their family - it's private.

[edit on 26/5/08 by kosmicjack]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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I have a bad feeling about Obama. He really seems to be shoveling the public everything people want to hear.. no matter how obviously unrealistic., but then once he gets into office., there will be alot of regrets that we voted him in.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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I can't believe that anybody would take issue with the banning of protests at funerals. One has to have a complete lack of respect for others grief to even consider such a thing.

Next time one of your close family members die, I propose we have a gathering right next to your funeral with a marching band and an angry protester on a bullhorn. Would it bother you that the funeral for your loved one was interrupted by a bunch of idiots? I'm guessing it woud.

There are some things that are sacred and the time that a loved one is put into the ground is one of them. If this happened at a funeral for one of my loved ones, I'd consider the night in jail received for my actions against the protesters to be a fair exchange.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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While I believe in the fundamental right of free speech, I do also think there is a limit.

At what point do your rights of free speech infringe the rights of others not to be hassled/ harrassed/ intimidated?

Could you go around saying "Im going to rape you" to women? Would that be guaranteed under freedom of speech?

Or what if you shout "Death to the west, Im going to blow myself up now!" on an aeroplane?

Or as Semper said, the more usual example of shouting fire in a crowded cinema.

Free speech is a right, but as with all rights it must be treated with respect and comes with responsibilities.

The last thing I would like to say is that protesting at soldier's funerals and insinuating that their death was the byproduct of "rampant homosexuality" (I believe the Westboro Baptist church is what you were alluding to), is completely out of line in my opinion.

Would I support a ban on protesting at soldier's funerals by anti-war protesters, radical christians etc?- Yes I would.
Do I feel remorse that I have to support such an action? - Yes I do.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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Saying what he said was a pretty smart thing to say, especially today. It's Memorial day and many people are feeling patriotic and such. He's trying to strike a chord with the middle aged white guy who so far seems to want no part of him.

He was politicking, and doing it quite safely I might add.

He can't ban protests at funerals. That will be decided by the courts when all the lawsuits are settled.

Obama was doing what politicians do best, telling the people what they want to hear.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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I think it goes to the heart of what Obama was alluding to here, and I suipport him in his intentions.

The only real life example I can think of is the Westboro UN-Baptist church. So considering the "Protesters" that would be hindered in their actions consist of one immediate family or what? about 20 members?

I think common sense prevails here as to whom has the right to assemble peaceably...

Semper



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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Removed for new thread...

Semper

[edit on 5/26/2008 by semperfortis]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
He just basically said we should "ban protests next to [soldier's] funerals".


I didn't hear him say that. However, I'll go with what you have posted here and I'll assume it's accurate and an exact post of his words -

He didn't say that people couldn't protest.
He said that people couldn't protest NEXT to a funeral.
The protesters could still have their freedom of speech.
The grieving families can still have their right to religious freedom.

IF he said what you say ... then it's nothing more than what people have been calling for. I have heard others in the senate say the exact same thing.

** Don't take it personally that I'm saying 'if' ... it's not a slam against you .. it's just covering my backend in case you didn't hear a speech right or something like that ..



Originally posted by grover
Trust me I am about as liberal as they come ....

I'll back him up on that!

Hey grover .. hope the knee is doing well.




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