Israel 'has 150 nuclear weapons'

ok, it was just stated on CNN that of course israel has nuclear weapons.

Shar, you seem to be missing a few pertinent points here.

Hamas - the legally elected government of the Palestinian people. The people chose Hamas after years of the PA doing nothing for them.
The US government and Israel chose to ignore those elections, even when the new Hamas leadership extended the olive branch and asked for talks immediately after winning the election. Instead, the US decided to "stir things up" as you put it, by funding and arming the PA to fight Hamas.

Mr. Vanunu - a single source of information? If what he had to say was untrue then why did the Israelis go to the trouble of kidnapping him and flying him back to Israel then banging him up for 18 years in almost solitary confinement. Since being released he is under basic house arrest and banned from talking to anyone. Nothing to hide?

reply to post by Shar

Now what exactly is mister Carter stirring up here? He is just saying something, that almost everybody knows already, and it is no big secret really. The entire Middl East knows Israel has nuclear weapons - but nobody knows how many exactly are there. Some say there are 100+, while other say 150 - and there are reports of about 200 nuclear bombs right now stored by IAF. And Hamas is a legitimate political party in Palestina, which was democratically elected in the elections - which means, that the people of Palestine have chosen them. Yes, they are considered a terrorist group by almsot everybody - but then again, the strongest terrorists in the world only have to power to label somebody a terrorist. In any case, this article could be interesting for you to read: Hamas is a Creation of Mossad.

Just read through this thread--wow, someone who still believes Israel doesn't have nukes--hey, the earth is round!

To prove it, once and for all, from Haaretz, which is Israel's newspaper of record:

This is discussing a declassified 1974 US National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) released when Bush made the first of his 2 recent trips to Israel:

The Central Intelligence Agency, backed by bodies including the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Defense Intelligence Agency, determined in August 1974 that Israel had nuclear "weapons in being," a "small number" of which it "produced and stockpiled."

Israel was also suspected of providing nuclear materials, equipment or technology to Iran, South Africa and other then-friendly countries.

This top secret document, consigned to the CIA's vaults for almost 32 years, was suddenly released to the public this week, during U.S. President George W. Bush's visit to Israel and on the eve of his trip to the Persian Gulf.

As you can see, by the mid-70s, Israel was already a nuclear proliferator. Among the countries it was sharing nuclear secrets: Iran.

Carter "stirring up trouble in the ME" Oh, the hypocrisy.

To all the Anti-Israel posters:

Are the Palestinians (or Arabs) really the poster child for human rights? If not, why the big hoopla about Israel?

It works both ways.

reply to post by xxpigxx


Perhaps if the Israelis were not constantly stealing Palestinian land, destroying their crops and livelihoods and killing them indiscriminately, the Palestinians wouldn't be so hostile?

Try putting yourself in the same situation where a hostile occupation force moves you off your land, bulldozes your house and moves in it's own people. Your family members protest and are beaten or shot for showing dissent.
How many times do we see gung-ho Americans proudly proclaiming that they'll fight to the death to protect their land and families from invaders? It seems this is ok for some but others who do so are automatically labeled terrorists.

The Palestinians were there first and own the land, hold legal deeds to property but this is ignored by the Israeli settlers and the courts that back them up.

reply to post by xxpigxx

Are the Palestinians (or Arabs) really the poster child for human rights? If not, why the big hoopla about Israel?

And human rights is relevant how to Nuclear Weapons Programmes?
You read the topic heading there?

The "big hoopla" here is due to one particularly ignorant and stubborn forum member who refuses to look at facts like he's staring into the sun, and also from sheer double standards presented in Nuclear Proliferation.

Israel gets Nukes without discussion or question in the 1970's, which they willingly admit to having in order to deter and if need be prevent their neighbours from attacking them.

Iran on the other hand, has never been at war in it's modern history and has yet to be linked to any terrorist group but is denied having even Nuclear Reactors for electricity generation.

The sheer hypocrisy of this whole episode is what gets people fired up. If Israel, Pakistan and India can have them, so can Iran. The US is not one to dictate to the Iran's whether they can or cannot have Nuclear Weapons when they did the same thing years ago to acquire their own.

Rumours of a German programme under development sparked the Manhattan Project and yet here's Iran trying to do the same thing, developing weapons as a deterrent capability and the US is preventing them.

Hypocritical enough for you?

Originally posted by pexx421
I already told you a good analogy i think. you just keep parroting the same thing.

Im parroting the same thing. That's good. This is what my post is about from the very beginning. Carter won the noble peace prize!!!! He’s suppose to be the top dog for peace. This is not peace. He is not trying to keep peace!!!! He is stirring it up.

Originally posted by Britguy


Mr. Vanunu - a single source of information? If what he had to say was untrue then why did the Israelis go to the trouble of kidnapping him and flying him back to Israel then banging him up for 18 years in almost solitary confinement. Since being released he is under basic house arrest and banned from talking to anyone. Nothing to hide?

I just learned all of this yesterday. Through here. I had no idea. However, how would we feel If a leader in Israel would come out and say, " I know where the US fleet is heading and what they are getting ready to do" or speak of our secrets of any kind. This is what Carter is doing?

He's betraying them!

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Hey hey . . . relax. It was Carter who brought up the human rights . . . it was in the article. Thanks for your concern, though

As far as nuclear weapons . . . I don't see Israel vowing to obliterate other nations.

reply to post by Shar


Can you point out exactly what it is that Carter has done to "stir things up"? so far I am having trouble seeing what he has done wrong, apart from telling the truth and trying to put the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians under the spotlight.

Or, are you saying we should all just ignore the situation and let Israel continue their genocide? Just look the other way?

reply to post by Britguy



So I guess you didn't see my links I have put up on different pages. Of how Carter went over there and then bombs would fly.

Or how he won the peace prize and is this peace? I think not! It's not peace when you betray trust!

reply to post by Shar


So now he is betraying America? If I read you right, and this is what you are hinting at, then you obviously think that Americans dying to fight Israels enemies is OK?

Also, no need to worry about Carter passing on American secrets (although you present no evidence of this), there are plenty of Israeli Americans doing just that.

Originally posted by Shar


I just learned all of this yesterday. Through here. I had no idea. However, how would we feel If a leader in Israel would come out and say, " I know where the US fleet is heading and what they are getting ready to do" or speak of our secrets of any kind. This is what Carter is doing?

He's betraying them!

Huh?

The actual analogy would be if Carter came out and said, "I know we developed the neutron bomb in the 1970s."

This is not, repeat not, news to anyone but you. This is among the worst-kept 'secrets' in the world. Just because you didn't know about it until yesterday, does not mean that it changes anything in the ME. Really, talk about navel-staring!

And just what is Carter's betrayal you keep harping about? Do you honestly think that his visits or statements unleashed the latest round of violence over there?

Really, you give him far too much credit. He's making a principled point, moot in terms of the realpolitik of the region, but at least it's served to enlighten a few people, such as yourself, to some of the larger realities of what is going on in Israel.

reply to post by xxpigxx

As far as nuclear weapons . . . I don't see Israel vowing to obliterate other nations.

One word: DEBUNKED.
www.mohammadmossadegh.com...
www.juancole.com...

Why people still bring this up to try and paint Iran as a loose cannon is beyond me. Israel is the one with 200 Nukes sitting in silos and planes and vowing to use them in certain circumstances:

"All options are on the table, not only in the future."

www.haaretz.com...

It's like saying, who would you rather give a shotgun to, a man who hates his neighbours and has been in a constant state of conflict with them since he moved in, or a man who's been sitting on the fence for a majority of his lifetime and has yet to harm anyone.

Pig i hope you are not implying that iran has threatened to wipe anyone off the map. We dont need to be parroting that agitprop mistranslation. as to shar. Maybe carter has realized what everyone needs to realize. That ones loyalty should not be to a country or group, but to the whole human race of which we are all a part. Part of being a peacemaker is making people acknowledge what is wrong, and israel's abuses of the palestinian peoples is something strongly in need of remedy. I state again, it is not carter stirring things up. It is israel, and america. If you want to point the finger at someone keeping things stirred up, point to america's voting record in the UN, voting against every enforced de escalation directed towards isreal. Voting against every declaration of the crisis in jerusalem. Voting against condemning israel for its attacks on palestinians, and for last years attacks on lebanon.

reply to post by pexx421

The real stirring it up was the Iraq invasion, which has pushed Iran to develop nukes and unleashed a regional arms race and brought Russia actively into the region again, supporting Syria and Iran with major arms deals, and resurrecting the Cold War in the ME by proxy.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

someone has allready linked to `the samson option` - and if i was living in germany i would be rather concerned - as israel have stated in no uncertain terms that they WILL nuke germany if/when they use the samson option.

If this isn't further proof of Jimmy Carter's stupidity, as well as his blatant subversion of US foreign policy, then I don't know what is.

There are unwritten "rules" on how a former President should conduct himself publicly. Jimmy Carter has taken it upon himself to crap on this decades-long, or centuries-long, tradition.

As if his time in office wasn't damaging enough to this nation, he seems hell-bent on surpassing all of that. His actions as a private citizen have bordered on treason. I'd just like to know who anointed this idiot a peace broker or spokesperson for us?

Jimmy Carter needs to go back to building houses for the poor or peanut farming.