To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

reply to post by bigbert81


There is always something else to do other than waste our time going round in circles with someone who dont agree with us on ATS. At the moment Im more entertained by the rain water pouring thru my ceiling.. so forgive me if I see this thread as not important enough to get too serious in depth.

All I wanted to say to you was as I said already, you dont know the guy so save your jugements... thats all. God judges? not us.

I dont mind looking a twat... moron.. not smart.. Im human hell I dont mind even acting like a total dick on purpose... but you dont know me you only have my writing.. which Im not focusing on.

Course Im not above wasting my time so can we leave the EGO issues at the door? I have tried and Im a reasonabe guy. Im not above you and youre not above me, we are all stupid human beings and thats about it? thing is.. not many people can just admit 'ok Im stupid and I dont know'... as thats all stupid means.. unknowing.

Originally posted by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2
reply to post by drevill

 

As for that gospel of Thomas.... I dont believe really any so called 'lost or missing books' .. I think they are lies too, just like the rest of the bible.. [maybe] but I dont know. I know there is some truth in it no doubt.

I agree, the bible is just a book of stories, sure some are based on fact but it doesn't change the fact that they are just words written by men. Each culture has it's own "book of stories" and the base their beliefs on what they read. The bible has been manipulated by the church to push certain beliefs on us. Although i don't understand how people can take so much stock in a book that says a woman came from a mans rib and was convinced by a magical talking snake to eat an apple that domed us all. Oh and what about that man that climbed a mountain and talked to a bush that was on fire but didn't burn, and the magical healer that died and came back to life before raising into the sky. Stories like these would be in the national enquirer in present times. People who hear voices are praised as profits, they are thrown in looney bins.

reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2


Then please leave out your ludicrous philosophical views you're subjecting me to.

I don't believe in the crap you're spewing, and to come off at me because I judged someone based off of info I had, is ridiculous.

And BTW, WE judge. To say we don't is to live in the dark. We judge, it's normal, and to leave things to God is to accomplish nothing as a society.

reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2


Actually unknowing is ignorance, to be stupid means very dull; insensible; senseless; wanting in understanding; heavy; sluggish.
The difference in laymen's terms is this people that are stupid have knowledge and don't know how to use it whereas to not know something is to be ignorant

reply to post by bigbert81


Oh ok Bert you obviously have nothing better to do with your time..

What is your belief anyway are you in full agreement with the bible word for word? is that the truth? is that who our creator really is? Jehovah the warring jelous insecure God who loves people so much he kills millions in the bible?

Last I knew a loving God / PERSON would be someone who says I NEVER WOULD.. unless someone is trying to kill me then I'l kill to survive. Who the hell was god scared of that he had to kill so many people? Why has the devil seemingly equal power to God?

Free will.. yes.. we have free wil to beLIEve what we are told by those in control of millions........ OR.. we can look INSIDE for COMMON BLOODY SENSE.

Well, the bottom line is you cannot, will not, ever know the Mind of God because that mind is so so far beyond the reason of man as it would utterly crush us in our attempt to comprehend it. That being said, all Christians can respond with is,"well, it says in the scriptures"... Fact: those scriptures are only of religious significance because you have faith that they were indeed written by the people whom they are attributed to. Fact: It has been proven that the supposed authors of the New Testament mostly likely did not write the books associated with them - they were most likely written by their followers (with the exception of a very few of the Pauline letters).

What is left then? Epicurus (someone we know for a fact existed) is generally thought to be the first to pound out this problem of good and evil in a philosophical way.

The Riddle of Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Said another way: "Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" — Epicurus, as quoted in 2000 Years of Disbelief




[edit on 26/5/08 by WickedStar]

Originally posted by narissa83
reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2

 

Actually unknowing is ignorance, to be stupid means very dull; insensible; senseless; wanting in understanding; heavy; sluggish.
The difference in laymen's terms is this people that are stupid have knowledge and don't know how to use it whereas to not know something is to be ignorant

Brilliant!

But wait, according to Paradox,

Least when you debate with people u could get your definitions of words correct.

That's hilarious. Oh, wait, we shouldn't say anything, after all, he's just trying to say that he's attempting to live up to his name...

reply to post by narissa83


hello Narissa

why do you think this higher conscience allows all this to happen?

The God of the Bible, IMHO, has his reasons, just wondering what your thoughts are.

all the best

david

reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2


No, dude, I'm done with you.

I don't like arguing with hypocritical people who change their views every post. And it would appear to me, that YOU are the one that 'has nothing better to do', so don't try and give yourself the high ground and then attempt to play it off on me.

You're done.

reply to post by narissa83


hello Narissa

strange things can happen

www.newsnet5.com...

for me i trust the Bible as i trust the words in it that assure me of my salvation through Christ. The Bible has been dismissed for many a topic only for secular evidence to pop up and confirm it.

That taken out you then have prophecy fulfillments

To me its brilliant! Although I have to admit its very hard for even some Christians to take it seriously, let alone a non believer, secondly i would love to know the percentage of non believers that have actually read the whole bible. Again few Christians have done this in my experience and conversations.

its like when we are at school, teachers says so teacher is right, how often do we question and actually investigate for ourselves?

I was told by an elder that i asked too many questions?????? eh??? what kind of mentality is that? If someone doesnt know an answer they should say outright in my opinion....

sorry im on rant now

all the best

david

reply to post by drevill

Good question. From what I've seen in life, we (all humans) are not ready for the knowledge of the universe. When we are ready to know the answers to all the great questions in life we will be "enlightened" but until that time we must learn to live peacefully with each other and our planet.

I am a firm believer that with each life your soul learns important lessons and when your soul is ready you move on. How do you expect us to learn this if we are interfered with. You learn by doing. You won't learn to ride a bike if your mother is holding you up, you have to do it on your own even if that means skinning your knees a couple times.

reply to post by drevill


yes i have read the bible front to back. Well, i kinda skimmed the numbers chapter, but for the most part I have read it. I have also started reading "bibles" from other religions to compare the "stories"

reply to post by narissa83


before i became a Christian, i believed something similar, that God was some kind of office within (don't laugh) the council of dead or something.

i really wonder just how many Atheists really are and have no belief whatsoever. I discuss points with a manager at work who says the is such a person yet relies on science. IMHO a large proportion of science requires a leap of faith of its own.

david

reply to post by bigbert81


Am I really done? thanks buddy yes, woof woof [wags tail] shut up man, deflate your ego its kinda gross.

I tried leaving in piece ages ago but you kept going on about bastards. Just answer the questions if you want.

Everything is a paradox. I reserve the right to change my mind just like God does apparently. I dont have any set views ok most people who know me know I churn out views from all angles I think of.. Im not some prick who believes all Im told.

God loves so much yet he does so much 'evil'..... murdering... so how do we explain this? is it just that we dont know what true divine love is? cause that I couldnt debate with.

Personally I don't believe in God, though I have a couiple of theories for if he is real.

Firstly, if God is real I doubt he has much control over us or our world. I prefer to think that he has created us and thats the limit of his power. How we ourselves use or exploit our world is entirely up to us. If this were the case, then he could not help starving children in poor countries. Maybe our world is merely a prototype, after all its safe to say that there are a number of fatal flaws in our programming. The photographer who left the child to die perfectly illustrates this view.

Secondly, we all know this world and our life-spans are limited. Maybe this world is just a rest-stop it may be the most disatrous of places. Eventually upon our death we may go to heaven, if you believe this surely its better for these starving children to have lived on this earth however terrible it is in order to be able to go to heaven after death. Surely that is better than never living.

This is of course a fundamental flaw in such typical western religions or religions which enompass a divine being, they barely encourage humanity among people. Sure they talk of compassion and love for thy neighbour and I'm sure they were invented for to encourage such compassion but ultimately they just offer a cop-out or hope to gullible (in my opinion) people.

Maybe instead of becoming hung-up on Christianity. After all the majority of Christians are Christian because there parents were and have been taught of it since an early age. In my opinion this is nothing but brainwashing regardless of whether parents think it right or not! Why not decide which religion if any best suits you. I bet this would lead to far more compassion. Why not take up Buddism for example.

Personally I believe the idea of a divine creater absurd. I don't take where we come from or how we came to be. The facts remain that we are here, we are alive, now leets try and make it the best place for everyone to live in!

reply to post by AlexG141989



The answer isnt very simple -- and requires a lot of soul searching is why nobody ever talks about it.

God created humans, God created the planet, and all that is in existance....God created existance.

I wont pretend to know everything, but ill tell you what i believe to be true.

In the short answer form: God does try to step in and work for those people like that child in the picture, but God tries to do so through God's followers. A man or woman was there when this picture was taken, obviously - so hopefully this person intervened.

To expect that God will take care of every need and want of every person on the entire planet and grant everyone their wish to to treat God like a servant. We are God's servants, not the other way around.

Those who starve and suffer, but keep their faith are granted ever lasting peace and love in Heaven. Those who have opportunities to do something and choose to do nothing (IE: Millionare athletes and wallstreet brokers who see these images, could donate a few hundred thousand dollars, but choose to do just 13 cents a day)
Those are the people who are twisted. I am not saying that rich people are evil because they are rich. I am saying that God see's money as worthless, and that can be proven by looking at the majority of people he allows to have it (they are worthless)

So stop with this hippy # that says "why does God allow suffering"
Satan creates suffering - God creates people to combat the suffering, but through the concept of free-will, people can choose to listen or ignore the callings of God and the teachings of Christ.

You can also think about it like this:
You look at that picture of the child, and only then, do you realize how fortunate you are. It is not a twisted notion to think this way. You have it better than this child, but need reminded of it a lot. That child could have been God's instrument to spark you to post this on the ATS website, and then this posting influences someone to donate a lot of money...who knows. God works in mysterious ways (to use an old quote again)

Don't be so brave to insinuate you understand all the workings of existance, and dont be so bold as to deny the existance of God. Because i can promise you that i know one thing for sure. On the day that you die, and your spirit transends to meet the maker, and you are trembling at the "feet" of God to answer for your sins and your disbelief, it will be too late to beg for forgiveness and offer repentence.

Save your soul now before it is too late. you could walk out your door 2 hours from now and hear the distant sounds of trumpets as Jesus Christ makes his triumphant return. You dont want to be on the wrong side of the Lord when that day comes.


[edit on 26-5-2008 by ybab hsur]

reply to post by ybab hsur


So God created Satan to test our free will that God made.. is that all?

reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2


For someone who feels the need to tell me how to debate like 'smart ATSers', you sure do break the hypocrisy rule quite a bit.

BTW, since we are critiquing the words the other is using so that we can insult one another, I think you meant 'leave in PEACE', not 'piece'.

God created the archangel Satan, who later became the lord of all evil. So to put it in terms that we humans can comprehend, then yes, God created Satan to test our free will that he gave us.

Think of it in these terms:

If you're a computer programmer, say......C++ (im old school ) then it is a safe assumption that you probably spend a portion of your free time writing scripts that are essentially worthless on a large scale. You can create them to mimic a calculator, or to answer simplified questions based on an accumulation of prior encounters (IE: To mimic A.I.)

Whatever the reason you artfully "Create" the computer program, it ultimately only knows what you tell it. It does what you ask it, it stops when you demand it.
Now, if you program that very script to run in complete random cycles and terminate its self upon desire, to calculate dots on a graph on its own accord, to call random phone numbers for you to sell magazine subscriptions, if you program that computer to do what it wants to, based on the information you give it - then, in a way, you've given the computer "free-will". But only so far as to what you allow the computer to understand.

God does not give us all of the answers, because if God gave us the answers, then everyone would believe in God, and it would not be a challange. God creates in us the idea of Faith as to prove our meetle.(sp?)

If we believe in God, then it shines God's greatness.
There's a difference in BELIEVING and KNOWING. If we KNEW God existed, it would have different impact on God that when you have faith that God is there.

I hope that answers your question, i'd be glad to help discuss it at greater lengths with you if you choose.

reply to post by bigbert81


Hehehe.. man your making me laugh.. You got me there thanks.

I lost the care ages ago to be right and exact to be honest. I dont wana argue! Just understand and overstand. Just like the rest of you.

Dont mean to be annoying or rude. Its been a crazy day.