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To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

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posted on May, 26 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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The points raised in this thread are among the reasons why I believe that if there is an omnipotent, omniscient, universal, divine being, then the most it extends are influence and perhaps inspiration - not intervention. Doing so would eliminate the point of free will. Not merely free will, but also what I like to call "free causality," which I at times hypothesize extends to everything; not just intelligent beings with free will, but everything, down to the subatomic level and beyond.

I have no real way of knowing, of course. I don't know. It's just a thought I have which occasionally serves as a belief. If, however, influence and inspiration do occur, then I would imagine the onus rests on our ability to listen or our sensitivity (which isn't to say that some people are "favored" or anything; it's just that due to free will some people happen to be listening at certain points and not listening at others.)

Since I also don't believe in any form of elitism or the concept of people "deserving" or "not deserving" such influence or inspiration, I believe if it exists it's readily available to anyone.... perhaps in more ways, states, and languages (both conscious and unconscious) than we are aware.

Again, this is only a theory. I have no clue. Just because it’s what I feel or believe doesn’t make it the truth.




posted on May, 26 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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It's not a photographer's responsibility to care for that child, no matter how heartbreaking the photo is. Is it the responsibility of the human being to? Maybe...

If the subject wasn't an African child suffering from famine, but instead a heroin-addicted teenager in any Westernised city on the planet, who weighed (about) the same, suffered the same diseases and had the same life expectancy, the reaction would be totally different. This is the problem with humanity.

The photographer's job is to give a point of reference and that's about it. Whether or not the photographer helped that child, we'll never know, but it's poor form, in my opinion, to assume he committed suicide because he didn't help the child. He could have helped and had the child die in his arms. He could have been suffering from chronic depression for years. There are a load of explanations and yes, he could have been riddled with guilt and committed suicide for the reasons you're all discussing, but I see no reason to jump on that theory and condemn this guy in his grave.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by AlexG141989
 



you ask:


can you please tell me a reason why god couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child???



this is one other reason not yet mentioned in these 3 pages, so far, of passionate replies...

G-d set up a series of 'Laws' that run their course regardless of the passion & emotional stress it may cause the observer...

scripture states that one of these preexisting laws, laid down from immediately after mankind was expelled from the Eden paradise on Earth,
was the Law or Rule that [The Sins of the father will be visited on the progeny, even till the third generation] ... or something to that effect !

in other words, the scene was set into motion by mans defiance to the laws given long ago... if G-d were to intervene or suspend the Law of penalty then the whole Divine plan would be in chaos... and Satan, the author of confusion would win the cosmic struggle of good-v-evil by default.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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This is my opinion:
To fully understand the way World (and the whole Creation) works, it is necessary to do some studying of some books. But basically, I can explain on this topic how I see it:
You could not really realize how "good" feels like, if you never feel the "bad". Creator, however, knows what good and bad feels like, so he does not need an answer. He would like everyone to be happy, but he is not a dictator! Once someone wants to do things that god knows would not make one happy, he will only warn him, but what one will do is on one's decision.

How would you tell whether something is black or white, if you only seen white yet and never seen black? How would beings in Heaven realize, how good is to live in Heaven, without the consciousness what evil of the hell feels like?
That is why there is so much people suffering from hunger, thirst, variety of things... they chose to come here, from Heaven, basically, because they WANT to feel how evil feels like, so that they can recognize how good is to live in Heaven.
That is my opinion and point of answer. For better understanding, I recommend to read this: www.sapphyr.net/largegems/littlesoul-thesun.htm
and also universe-people.com is where you will find those detailed information I mentioned in the beginning.
Good luck in understanding everything, be Creator and Angels with You!



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 09:00 AM
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St. Udio,

God is not perpetually allowing the sins of the Father to visit the children this many generations from the very first generation which had sinned. Even if it was 10 generations, we'd still be well into the clear by now.

Plus, I disregard alot of the stuff from the Old Testament, and some from the New Testmanet, that are blatantly a product of the man writing that portion, and the times in which that man lived. What I mean is, in the modern era, we see it as completely barbaric, foolish, and unfair to punish children for their Father's deed, or better yet.. the grandchildren, because of their Grandfather's deed.

But in the ancient days, mankind thought alot of really screwy, incorrect things. One was that the blood carried your sins and actions onto the next person .. to your child, and that your child would be punished by God for your actions. They also thought that anyone with Leprosy was damned by God because they were a sinner. But what if you knew the Leper your whole life, and know that they were not a sinner? Then you'd have to rationalize WHY this man has Leprosy .. why God is punishing him, and the only thing that comes to mind is that he's being punished for his Father's sins, or Grandfather's, or Great grandfather's, etc. So this reinforces that incorrect notion. Clearly they had quite a bit incorrect. So why should we take it as correct, and think it applies to us right now, when it was an error back then?



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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Someone has a hard time understanding the concept of "free choice". Very original argument though, I've never heard this one before.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by chise61

Originally posted by AlexG141989
it kinda makes me mad when i think of situations like this


You say it "kinda" makes you mad, does it or doesn't it ? Do you really care about the starving children of third world countries ? If it does make you mad and you do care, then do something about it.


There are plenty of organizations that you could donate money to that help to bring food, clothing and medical supplies to these children. You can see the commercials on tv all the time.


Just think if you took all the time and energy that you waste bashing god, christians, and religion and used it to help these children you may be able to help many of them. Even if you only help one that's one less child that you will see in a picture like that.


So instead of asking questions like "why doesn't God" ask instead "why don't I" ?


i dont feel like answering replies like this continually so ill just post a reply i made in another forum when i was asked this exact same question

"dang, everybody seems to miss the point im trying to make.... if god has time to make a change in the life of a regular joe that lives a nice regular life... why cant god make a change in the life of this little boy in the pic???

i hate that freakin copout... in all the forums i posted this the religious tell me maybe god put ME to help the child... how am i going to help??? sure i could donate some money and save a few kids... but what about the millions and millions upon millions that wont get the help??? and your going to counter with "maybe god put other people to help those kids" well again what about the millions and millions of OTHER kids that wont get the help??? it goes on and on dude and YOUR god doesn't seem to care"



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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This is my theory: I'm a Christian and deeply spiritual. These are somethings I was taught and some of them are answers to the same possed question.

Before we are born, with help from our guardian angels, we choose the life we will lead according to the leasons we are to learn in that life.

In the case of this child he could have been a very rich, self centered, arrogant person in his previous life. Maybe his lesson was to see what it feels like to be so impoverished you can't help yourself. You have to get help from others. Maybe when he was a rich person, a homeless person asked for money for food and he scoffed? We don't know because it wasn't our lesson to learn.

I also agree that the photographer was probably lead there - but due to his free will made the wrong choice.

I feel God will give us the answer to questions like this when we are facing him at the end of our journey. Until then they will be nothing more than mysteries.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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That is an absolutely heart breaking picture. GOD is everything is my life. With that being said. GOD did not allow that to happen. "WE" the people allowed that by being divided as individuals and countries. Taking care of nothing except "our inner circle" instead of being one. GOD can not undo what man has done. Not yet, anyway. GOD's only son Jesus suffered for us, to save us and yet people still went against it. That's is why we are where we are today. This is OUR FAULT!!! GOD will correct this.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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God would help them you know, but... he's just a bit short on cash at the moment. I mean he's all knowing, seeing, and everything; he just can't handle money


So send some money to 555-3875 ect. If you wan't to help feed the starving people in the world.

I also heard talks that the photographer of the picture, was a religious man, and possibly a Christian, heh, go figure. If he was an atheist, I bet he would scooped the kid up and helped him to a hospital.

But he probably just said a meaningless prayer for him, and walked away.

I love that one, whenever someone is in financial, or physical trouble, or whatever the case may be, the Christian says, "I'll pray for you." Pray for me? F- that, give me a few bucks, your driving a frigging benz from the money your church rakes in, you can do more than "pray" for me.

[edit on 26-5-2008 by Nola213]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by AlexG141989
 


I hope the reason for this bastard's suicide was due to not helping this child out. What kind of sick bastard could just take a picture like this and walk away.

The world desperately needs more humanitarians.


If it wasnt for the 'sick b*stards' taking photos like that we wouldnt see whats going on in the world would we. What was the guy supposed to do take the kid home and sort it out himself?



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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There are websites about Sudan and the violence perpetuated there and you can donate. If I understand it correctly, the Arabs come swooping in and kil adults and kidnap children for slaves and so then you have refugee situations in surrounding countries and famine and people to afraid to farm openly and Godknowswhat else. Of course we can't physically help those children. I doubt I ever make it to Africa. And I really don't know which charities are honest or effective or both. Why not contribute to a charity of your choice or help a person in your sphere. Know someone having a hard time? Help them, listen to them. Mow your elderly neighbor's grass or something. Activism is simple.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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Look at this from God's perspective. The child died and returned to heaven. Looks like the life he was in sucked ........The child was innocent and even though he ? had a very short "unfair" life.......it says in the bible the least shall be first and the first shall be least....

Easier for a poor man to go in eye of a needle than a rich man
to enter into the kingdom of heaven.....or something like that....


What I am saying is what we percieve as "unfair" yes to some extent it is.......but what we don't see is Gods long term plan. WE occupy this body but for a short while....it is the eternity that God is concerned about.

I feel pretty confident that that child and millions more like him are with God.....it says also in the bible that even though a man has not heard the good news of jesus......if his heart is pure and he lives by "Gods laws" in his heart.......he is loved by God. Abraham was loved by God not for his following the law....even though he did follow what laws he knew.....but rather for his obedience to God....faith that what God provided him would be replaced if lost by God as long as he was obedient. Faith, obedience and love.......remember this life is but a mere few days, months, years....and compared to eternity.......well fear the God who is for eternity; not man.

As for others helping.......the government created the circumstances that caused this child and others like him to suffer and die......for money.......
the root of all evil.......
God gives us choices........this child will be used to illustrate mans inhumanity to man.....one day....God the only just JUDGE will judge those who hurt so many. God is a god of Grace as well..........Gods only son Jesus was the most loving compassionate person to ever live...and we killed him. Yes it was part of the "plan" but look at all the suffering since then.......we failed to see the Messiah....when he returns he will come as a ruler and take back what was his to begin with......what i am saying is that if we can kill Gods son so easily........after all he did for us(heal the sick, raise the dead, feed others, walk on water, teach, love, and protect....) we are capable of many evils....after all we are the children of the wicked one...it is only after we recieve christ that we become inheritors of the kingdom of heaven. I count it as Gods grace to allow me to be able to not be born into a place like that picture..It is to illustrate how we can be so cruel to each other. One day it will all be known to us....the bible says so.
As for now read the bible......learn about Jesus......and realize that the body that now reads the emails and types the letters in so many years will not be in this form anymore.......love Jesus.......grow in Gods grace!!!
Be kind to one another......and realize that Satan is always trying to make you doubt. This thread makes you think but it is what you do and how you use the thoughts that occur that are harmful. Sometimes doing nothing is doing something..........by the way...God has made a change in my life and I try on a moment to moment basis keep God close so I think as best I can as he would have me think and do......or not.
speaknoevil07

[edit on 26-5-2008 by speaknoevil07]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Lone Star Patriot
 


hello

you say that you are a Christian and also talk about past lives. my understanding that this does not happen, could you point me to a scripture? or something else that gives you this belief?

cheers

david



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by AlexG141989
 


It is not about blame, it is not about retrobution for these atrocities. These innocents are the byproduct of confoundedness and apathy. "God" has given us all the ability to be the very change you expect accountability for if it bothers you so much than quit posting and start taking life back into your own hands.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 




That's why secular humanism always turns into a North Korea or China situation.


What, are you joking me?

You have this sick, twisted delusion that Christians are better people, and then use communist countries as your comparison?

Go back and read my Wiki link. Or perhaps I should spout some of the things your religion is responsible for, which you seem to be completely ignorant to.

You're assuming that without Christianity, there wouldn't be charities helping people, and we'd turn communist? What a joke. And if you'd read my posts, I'm saying that the world would be better with more humanists, not just atheists, but then why listen to me, you are Christian, so therefore better than me, correct?

Hmmm, a secular humanist society, actually sounds great, if you would read the link I posted and understand what that's all about.

[edit on 5/26/2008 by bigbert81]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by AlexG141989
 


I hope the reason for this bastard's suicide was due to not helping this child out. What kind of sick bastard could just take a picture like this and walk away.

The world desperately needs more humanitarians.


If it wasnt for the 'sick b*stards' taking photos like that we wouldnt see whats going on in the world would we. What was the guy supposed to do take the kid home and sort it out himself?


How about taking him to the food center which the child was, apparently, ever so desperate trying to reach.

If I had to pick between taking this picture and saving this child, I would definitely go with saving the child, but you seem to have equalized them.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by drevill
 

I have a very different perception when it comes to religion. I don't believe that I have to go to church in order for my Father to know that I love and worship him. You see I'm also Native American. I believe that God came to us in many forms. I feel the Bible is God's word written the way man wanted it to read. It's meant to teach us right from wrong, to live in God's ways. There are just too many books that were left out for my to put all of my faith into it. So I just put ALL of my faith in God, Jesus and, the Holy Spirit.

I know it's a different view but please don't get holier than thou on me.
To each their own.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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cheers david......
The bible states that we have one life to live....
There are no "past" lives. WE have one soul......that will be judged. The good we do and the bad........God loves us all. Read John in the bible....
that is a good start. Mathew is also good. Jesus gives examples of Lazarus (not the one he raised from the dead, but the one who was poor and went to be with the lord) Jesus gives and example how when you die your soul and you have only one.....goes to heaven or to another place away from God.
Read, open your heart and realize that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. We have one soul........look at it this way....if you have one soul and follow God......you are good to go. If you have one soul and don't.....you are condemned. If you have more that one soul and follow God you are good because what harm has occurred...get it. Your assumption that you have more than one soul, life if incorrect is a fatal flaw. I cannot take the chance. Satan is like a roaming lion, prowling to find a victum. Do not let him decieve you......he is the chief of all liars.....
Again, the risk is not worth an eternity of being with out God. plus if there is no god.......as some believe....what harm has occurred if you follow the rules of being kind to one another and following Jesus....he was a pretty cool dude.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Lone Star Patriot
 


Lone Star.....
I think you have it right.........Look at Abraham....he did not "belong" to a church.....obedience, love and faith.........in all thy ways acknowledge God and your paths will be straight.
I think being in a church is helpful to strengthen you in gods word.....but you have to be in the "right" church. I cannot say what that is...it is different for everyone. At least until Jesus returns. Having Christian brothers to lean on and sisters to help is a strength and a standard so you have some feed back when questions arise. We lean on each other and give each other strength. It teaches us to play well in the sandbox so to speak.......

You cannot go wrong by following God, Jesus and the holy spirit.....
God Bless and keep you in your walk!



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