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To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

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posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Blueracer
reply to post by AlexG141989

Because we are all born into sin and the price of sin is death? What is your answer as to why God doesn't help everyone?

If you believe that it's your prerogative..

For me.. The whole Original Sin thing is completely preposterous. We are not born sinners.. We are in charge of our actions and no one else.
If we do Good or Bad.. That's our decision.. No Devil on our shoulder whispering to us to do EVIL things.

Take a good look in the mirror.. What do you see? A man in charge of his own Destiny by his own actions? or a mystic worshiper that thinks mans mind is impotent and evil.

Chew on that!

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:48 AM
reply to post by drevill

in my opinion the child should have been helped by humans, however that said is it not better for a child to die and then wake and live for eternity with Jesus in a paradise or to struggle next to death for days,weeks,months or years?


Are you serious?

This is one of the sickest, most disturbing quotes I've ever seen here on ATS.

PEOPLE, this is EXACTLY why I started my thread about us needing less religion and more humanitarians. What a friggin' disturbing thought this quote is. Disgusting.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:49 AM
reply to post by Lantian

Your holier than thou attitude is not needed here.

You jump to conclusions without knowing the facts, such as the photog just walking off. Or what I believe in. What I mentioned makes as much sense to me as anything you've said.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:51 AM
God definitely saved me from futile life of misery and I give him all the glory for it. Without him I would have most assuredly died. I am equally convinced, that without his involvement in my life today I would be nothing. I can think of four very good reasons to answer your question.

First of all, you are only seeing it from a worldly finite perspective. God is infinite. How do you know that suffering child might be a King in heaven. Jesus taught that in heaven "But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

Second, Sin entered the world as a result of mans disobedience. God may be letting evil run its course in order to prove that evil is evil and that suffering, which is the product of evil, is proof that anything in opposition to God’s will is bad, harmful, painful, and leads to death.

Third, God is letting evil occur is so that on the day of judgment, (coming soon to a theater near you) - the condemned will have no right to say that their sentence is unjust. God is not stopping people from exercising their free will.

Fourth, God does help some of those kids in miraculous ways. Have you ever been on a mission trip? Perhaps God helped me with my issues precisely so I would go and take care of someone else. I have fed hungry people. I have volunteered at inner city housing projects to work with kids. God works within the fallen world to affect change and He uses fallen people to accomplish His will.

Who do you think the people are over in Africa taking care of those children? Atheists like Christopher Hitchens - hardly! But there are thousands (if not more) of Christians doing it. In fact my 70 year old mother is going to Zimbabwe on a mission trip in a few months.

The homeless shelters, orphanages and soup kitchens of the world are almost all Christian. So God is doing something about it. Consider the reason maybe that kid starved is that you weren't on Gods team yet, and that was the kid you were supposed to feed. Perhaps you should consider that before you criticize God?

Don't worry, there are plenty more to feed, we'll save you some.

[edit on 5/26/2008 by Bigwhammy]

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:51 AM
reply to post by Lantian

I think it's hilarious that you people base your beliefs off exactly the same amount of evidence, and then think you're better than others because YOUR beliefs are right.

Anyway, I agree with the post above this one. I do not care for a 'holier than thou' attitude either.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:53 AM

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:55 AM
reply to post by AlexG141989

Interesting thread Alex.

I often wonder if those that rattle of the 30 or 40 guardian angels they beleve they have wonder a lick about why those angels don't do a damn thig to help innocent children die from situations that have NOTHING to do with ANYTHING they have done.

Usually those are children from third world areas

Since most people that claim to see angels always describe some sort of Aryan, Nordic-looking white person is it possible that God is a bigot? Is it just that we relate our saviors to those that look like us? Has anyone ever seen a non-white humanoid angel or do we really think that heaven is run by a whites only country club? Judging from those God doesn't seem to want to send angels out to rescue help maybe it is.

Well personally...I think people see and believe what they want to believe rather than what is.

- Lee

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:56 AM
I don't put my faith in God. I put my faith in me.. We are in charge here.

Am I my Brothers Keeper.. NO

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Lantian
You can't say that the person who photographed this child didn't help. Maybe he brought help back to this impoverished village.. don't jump to conclusions because someone took a photo of a malnourished child.

And you ask why "God the Omnipotent Being" doesn't help...

Because he gave us free will!!!

We run the show down here. This is our world.. We have to make the decisions
that ultimately mean life or death.

Next time when you ask God why is this happening.. You will have your answer.. Fix it your self.

if he gave us free will why would he help SOME people??? huh...???

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:58 AM
reply to post by lee anoma

Look at where they live.. what the he** are you gonna grow there. Of course you will find famine.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 01:59 AM
reply to post by AlexG141989

Who says he helps any of us? it's all conjecture and subjective.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:03 AM
reply to post by Bigwhammy


God saved you? How exactly? Are you sure that it wasn't you saving yourself?

Also, this quote:

Atheists like Christopher Hitchens - hardly!

is the exact reason why we need more humanists in the world today. Instead, Christians think that you have to believe in God to want to help other people, I'm guessing for their own selfish reasons (coming closer to God), otherwise, why would that even be an issue?

Also, this quote is wrong. Perhaps you should look at this:

Maybe it'll help you understand that there are several, several humanitarian atheists, so drop the whole 'you need to believe in God to do humanitarian work', or the 'only Christians are good people' crap.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:04 AM
reply to post by bigbert81


posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:06 AM
I have to agree with Lantian, it would be very greedy from God if he didn't let us live freely. I think he very rarely makes miracles, if ever, and only to the people of enormous faith. Though I don't know if Lantian is atheist or religious.

[edit on 26-5-2008 by Halicarnassus]

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:10 AM

Originally posted by AlexG141989
ok but look... the question is why would god help a regular person but forget about this child??? you didnt answer the question you just came up with a lame copout.... and if God allowed the kid to die in order to show us what were doing to the children of the world... how come nothing has changed??? gods way of doing things obviously is not working...

I see God as working through 'regular people' and suffering children for the purpose of showing us that we are all terribly flawed in that we are doing this to ourselves. The question is not why does God neglect that child, but why are we neglecting that child? Collectively, we are a part of God and God is a part of us, so when you stand around looking at a photograph of a starving child, and asking why, you are really asking why you have not done anything to feed that child. If you start to think about why that child is not being fed, you will understand that it is to humble you, because you are contributing to his death.

I also am contributing to the death of that child, by using an economic system that denies his parents the ability to work because they are in a 3rd world country that is probably being suppressed for political reasons.

When you understand how terrible we all are, then you will be humble enough to be like God and can ask why he chooses to show you things you dislike.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:13 AM
reply to post by ben91069

So we can change them. It's as simple as that.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:23 AM
Wow you guys sure do like to get on that photographer while you sit in your lay-z-boys and eat your bologna sandwich.

The fact is, in Sudan, there were probably hundreds of children like this all around him every moment of the day. To help each and every one probably would have meant his own death. Call that martyrdom but he didn't go to Sudan to become a martyr, he went there to make this issue palpable to all of us.

You all sit so high and mighty with your opinions. YOU go to Sudan! You go pick the child up!

Hypocrisy at its worst. And the thing is, if the guy never took the picture, you'd not even know this child ever existed. Its all relative people. Get off your high horses and choose your enemies wisely.

He committed suicide probably based on all the awful things that became a reality to him and he could do so little to stop it.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:26 AM
This current age of mankind is a witness, a testament to where the ways of man lead. Does this world follow the ways of God? It most certainly does not. There is a 7 week for a reason,it is symbolic of the six days for man to do his thing, and the 7th for man to be taught by God on the Sabbath. Notice in the book of revelation that Jesus reigns on Earth for 1000 years, at the aend of the age of man, which lasts for 6000 years. It is a 7000 year plan, just like a 7 day week. As Peter said...

2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

In the last thousand, things will be done God's way, and there is the witness, the difference of how things turned out after 6000 years of man's way, compared to 1000 years of God's way. This difference will be seen by everyone at the second resurrection, after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

At this time Satan is also realeased again to decieve, and people will make their choice....

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Then comes the judgement.

If God came down and intervened at every single second of the day somebody was about to come to harm, simply because mankind wasn't following God's way in the first place, where would be the lesson in that. It would be like telling a child not to play with matches and having to constantly stand there taking matches out of the the childs hand, when if you simply tell them not to play with matches or they'll burn themsleves, when they do actually burn themselves, they might see that you were right in the first place, and will stop playing with matches. It's unfortunate, but mankind, having freewill, has to learn the hard way, or it would never learn at all. Sure God could have created a bunch of programed robots, but what would you rather have for children or even a partner? Someone of freewill, that when it says "I love you", you know it's because they have made the choice to love you, not because you're forcing them to, even though you may have problems along the way. At the end of the day, when you've gone through the worst of times together, and that person is still at your side, you truly know that person's heart.

Sure, don't get me wrong, there are people suffering in this world, but life hurts more than death, and if after death you were to be resurrected into a future world where there is no suffering, but joys everlasting, is it more merciful to let a suffering child die, or to live an entire life of suffering in their current world? It's all fine and dandy to point at suffering and say if God existed, this wouldn't happen, but you're forgetting what God says comes after this suffering.

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

REVELATION 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The suffering in this world is the result of the actions of man, not God. God gives us guidence that would bring relief to this suffering, but man will not listen, we'd rather just blame God instead. Also, of all the people I know of who God has made a difference in their life, it has been spirutally, not physically or financially.

Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

If you believe what God says, then at death this child ceased to suffer, and at it's very next waking moment will be resurrected into a new beatiful existance. I wonder, if you asked that child at this time, whether it would have prefered to have died and be translated into this new world, or have to wait a whole life time of further suffering, what would you think it's answer would be? To point at suffering and death as a reason to paint God as evil and indifferent, is to completely forget the bigger picture spoken of by God. Man points at suffering and death to make themselves feel more righteous than God, when their actions instead cause and prolong suffering when it comes to the big picture and cycle of life.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Lantian
So we can change them. It's as simple as that.

Did you mean "change them" or "change then"?

People have always had the power to change the ills of the world, but it has always been lack of knowledge that has hindered them. Call me an optimist, but if people realized the power of their collective will, there would be no starvation at all. It's the people who believe in the hierarchy of the world authority structure who are actually causing a lot of suffering.

Economic systems are taught to be effective systems of trading goods and services, but they can and are being abused. This is why children starve, not because God is ignorant, but that we are ignorant.

If you look at God like you would your own Father, would you be 30 years old and still be asking him for an allowance or a handout? Of course not, that would be silly.

But we treat God that way. We should stand up and put down useless systems so that children won't starve if it kills us in the process, instead of asking 'Dad' why he has given up on us.

Maybe he is allowing us to be struck down so we can grow some balls and do the right thing, if you know what I mean.

posted on May, 26 2008 @ 02:32 AM
reply to post by SantaClaus

Wow you guys sure do like to get on that photographer while you sit in your lay-z-boys and eat your bologna sandwich.

Yep, there you go. Dammit! You people need to get up NOW and do something, get off the site NOW and go! C'mon, what kind of thoughtless insult is this?

The fact is, in Sudan, there were probably hundreds of children like this all around him every moment of the day.

Now here, you MIGHT have a point. At the very least though, if he knew he'd be publishing this picture, that poor child should've been helped.

To help each and every one probably would have meant his own death.

Now, this is a bit far fetched.

You all sit so high and mighty with your opinions. YOU go to Sudan! You go pick the child up!

Trust me, as soon as I can, I am going. So throwing around these 'bologna sandwich' and lazy insults are really just pointless.

Hypocrisy at its worst. And the thing is, if the guy never took the picture, you'd not even know this child ever existed.

Completely irrelevant. Completely. The facts were that the photographer took the picture, and walked off.

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