It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

page: 16
9
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 11:58 PM
link   
Maybe the answer you want to hear is "because God doesn't exist". I know the point you are trying to make makes a good argument to prove the non existence of God: If there is people suffering so harshly in the world, that must mean the compassionate God of the Christians must not exist or he is imperfect.

But I still insist, he rather does not intervene, since that would make him a greedy God, robbing us from our freedom.

As for why Christians thank God for everything, it is a natural reaction of humans, be it due to fear, hope, or plain happiness. I know I do it when I get out of a hard situation, even if I don't believe he interferes with our lives, but the happiness and relaxation makes me do it in those moments. I don't pray or thank him for the dinner and the hot water as others do, but I still understand what they feel when they do it.

Now if you think that is ridiculous, yes it is. All human feelings are ridiculous, but that is life.




posted on May, 28 2008 @ 12:07 AM
link   
The picture says that no one knows what happened to the child.

If the photographer killed himself for not helping the child, and there's even the slightest glimmer of hope that the child made it, seems a waste of a perfectly good photographer.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 12:08 AM
link   
Based on the religious, philosophical and moral explanations provided so far from the pages of post entries to this particular thread as to why ‘G-d’ couldn’t help everyone (and answer all prayers), a thought suddenly came to my mind that ‘G-d is not omnipresent’ after all. ‘G-d’ didn’t know about the child, or the photo taken, or about the photographer and his unfortunate end and doesn’t know what happened to the child either. ‘G-d’ doesn’t know except after data has been presented by whatever means of communication. I am saddened to know that such atrocities continue to occur.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 12:18 AM
link   

originally posted by bigbert81
The premise of humanism is to allow all human life to flourish and assist with the living of ALL humans, yet you are still on this Hitler thing, even after knowing that he was out to kill all non-arians. This just goes to prove that you have not listened to a word I've written and are being completely unreasonable.


I carefully read every word you wrote.

The only reason you thought you were right bigbert is you were appealing to the very same absolute moral law you are also trying to deny.

It sounds to me like you were communicating : "My humanism wants life to flourish and Hitler killed the Jews. Its not a fair comparison -Big difference -Killing is wrong - it's not just an opinion"

Ohhhh it's not an opinion now?

But then when faced with the realization The Moral Law infers God - you say morals are relative -- ohhhhh -- so now it is just an opinion

Can't have it both ways bigbert. That's why your philosophy of secular humanism fails logically and that's why the "workers paradise" becomes a killing field.

2+2 =/=5

I thought atheists appealed to reason and evidence?

Thanks bigbert.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is for the OP - there's still time to join up bro!

Bob's Mission Journey To Sudan






[edit on 5/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 12:39 AM
link   
Because, in no way did God promise us a perfect life or a perfect world. God made our bed, we tore off the covers.

Our life was never designed to be perfect; our afterlife was designed to be perfect.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 01:21 AM
link   

It just doesn't work that way. God will not intervene, much as some might wish it. That would be a violation of our free will.


Oh but god does intervene, there are those who claim god answers their prayers. For example Bigwhammy posted: “without (god’s) involvement in my life today I would be nothing.” And even if Bigwhammy wants to come along and say that’s not what he/she meant – I’m sure Christians at one time or another feel they’ve had their prayers answered by god


a violation of our free will


Exactly – but the problem is when god answers your prayers god is in affect violating our free will. God is actively intervening with our lives while answering prayers

George Carlin:

Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. 'Do this' 'Gimme that' 'I want a new car' 'I want a better job'. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan has been doing just fine. Now you come along and pray for something. Well, suppose the thing you want isn't in god's divine plan. What do you want him to do? Change his plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a divine plan. What's the use of being god if every run-down schmuck with a two dollar prayer book can come along and # up your plan? And here's something else, another problem you might have; suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? 'Well it's god's will. God's will be done.' Fine, but if it gods will and he's going to do whatever he wants to anyway; why the # bother praying in the first place?


God is violating our free will through prayers in which case god has the ability to help that child in Africa but, chooses not to?

Why does god answer your prayers but doesn’t help starving children in Africa…. ?

[edit on 28-5-2008 by andre18]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 01:35 AM
link   
reply to post by andre18
 


Real sicko post kid! What do you do for fun on the weekends grease up the hand rails on the steps at the old folks nursing home?


you see a dead little baby and then you respond with George Carlin jokes?

Are you a human being?



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 01:52 AM
link   
reply to post by Yosimitie Sam
 


Stop trying to avoid the question, if god answers prayers why doesn’t god answer the prayers of starving children in Africa? How come god answers yours but not theirs?

It's a simple question....



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 02:57 AM
link   
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Well, congratulations, you've finally taken the first step in a real debate here. Funny that I had to leave for you to finally say something that just wasn't repeating yourself over and over again. I'll keep that in mind, last ditch effort to get you to say something different.

Firstly, as I hope you've just learned, it's hard to use logic when it falls upon deaf ears. Give yourself a gold star.

Now, we can discuss the miscommunication that's been going on here, because you are the most hard-headed individual I've come across here on ATS. Honestly, it's like talking to a wall.



It sounds to me like you were communicating : "My humanism wants life to flourish and Hitler killed the Jews. Its not a fair comparison -Big difference -Killing is wrong - it's not just an opinion"


Here, you are mistaking humanism again. The point of humanism is to allow ALL human life to flourish, not just arians. Hitler was an evil man who was motivated through his own wants and needs. He was not looking out for humans, but a divine arian race. Putting Hitler in the same category of a humanist like Norman Borlaug is just plain lazy and foolish. Notice how people like Norman focus on bettering EVERYBODY'S life, not killing some to improve others. You don't seem to understand that Hitler was not a humanist.

So this is where some miscommunication has occurred. You are also saying (from what I can see) that killing is only wrong because it's set on the morality absolutism side in which you look for a deity to provide you with the answers. Killing is ruining/ending human life, it is culturally unacceptable, and damaging to society, therefore is also wrong according to humanist beliefs, but you seem to be having a hard time putting those 2 dots together. Go ahead, think about it and why YOUR definition of humanist doesn't fit THE definition of humanist.



But then when faced with the realization The Moral Law infers God - you say morals are relative -- ohhhhh -- so now it is just an opinion


It's so easy to say in the world you've grown up in, isn't it? Morals are defined as:



mor·al Audio Help /ˈmɔrəl, ˈmɒr-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mawr-uhl, mor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.
–noun
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.
10. the embodiment or type of something.
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.


Or:



1. The lesson or principle contained in or taught by a fable, a story, or an event.
2. A concisely expressed precept or general truth; a maxim.
3. morals Rules or habits of conduct, especially of sexual conduct, with reference to standards of right and wrong: a person of loose morals; a decline in the public morals.


Hmmm, I don't see anything that says 'Abiding by the rules which God has inscribed upon your hearts', do you? Of course not. But what you DO see is several references to following rules and principles. Who creates these? Society. Now, if we break it down even further, principles means:



1. an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct: a person of good moral principles.


You're more than welcome to look at the rest of the definition, I just thought it was a little excessive to post.

'An accepted rule'. Huh, who would've thought. Of course, my guess is this is where you come in and say 'Well, if it weren't for God, how would we know it was acceptable or not?' Well, then we're back to square one, except with one difference. Nowhere in the above excerpts does it mention God makes things acceptable. Society does, through laws and teachings. If we look at other societies, you will see that morals are indeed passed along to the members of society. Another example, the Mayans. This blood thirsty group I think would love to debate that God never inscribed on their hearts, but the SOCIETY is the one which developed the morals. Of course, the Mayans had gods too, but doesn't that really go back to morality being relative? Because it depends on the deity of your people as well?



Truth or justification of moral judgments is not absolute, but relative to some group of persons.

With respect to truth-value, this means that a moral judgment such as ‘Polygamy is morally wrong’ may be true relative to one society, but false relative to another. Likewise, with respect to justification, this judgment may be justified in one society, but not another.


Wait, so some societies actually have different moral standards than others? But what about moral absolutism...?

Here is a link I strongly suggest you read:

en.wikipedia.org...

This link should end this ludicrous debate once and for all. This is the accepted construction of morals. Take note once more that it does not bring up God inscribing stuff into your heart:



Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)

1. Obedience and punishment orientation

(How can I avoid punishment?)

2. Self-interest orientation

(What's in it for me?)

Level 2 (Conventional)

3. Interpersonal accord and conformity

(The good boy/good girl attitude)

4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation

(Law and order morality)

Level 3 (Post-Conventional)

5. Social contract orientation
6. Universal ethical principles


Also, take note that when you read this link I posted (if you do, we both know how you have been throughout this debate), you'll notice several references to SOCIETY. Not God.

The idea of secular humanism is to focus on improving life for every living person, not lessening one to better another. That's why Mother Theresa is quite different than Hitler. You didn't see Mother Theresa only helping the good looking people, or the blond hair people, did you?



Moral relativism has steadily been accepted as the primary moral philosophy of modern society.

Studies indicate 75% of American college professors currently teach that there is no such thing as right and wrong. Rather, they treat the questions of good and evil as relative to "individual values and cultural diversity."


Hmmm, maybe you can go tell these college professors that THEY'RE wrong and you are right, because God inscribed it on your heart. What is right for one society is not necessarily right for all others.

How's that for your logic and reasoning?



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 03:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Here, you are mistaking humanism again. The point of humanism is to allow ALL human life to flourish, not just arians. Hitler was an evil man who was motivated through his own wants and needs. He was not looking out for humans, but a divine arian race. Putting Hitler in the same category of a humanist like Norman Borlaug is just plain lazy and foolish. Notice how people like Norman focus on bettering EVERYBODY'S life, not killing some to improve others. You don't seem to understand that Hitler was not a humanist.



It makes no difference how humanism is defined on paper. It is logically inconsistent with reality. Humanism states that it seeks to define morality by human means. In so doing it destroys morality. Then you have no right to judge Hitler. The only way you can is to appeal to an absolute moral standard not an opinion.

Humanisms goals sound good. But that is not relevant. If humnism is true there is no morality and anything goes!



So this is where some miscommunication has occurred. You are also saying (from what I can see) that killing is only wrong because it's set on the morality absolutism side in which you look for a deity to provide you with the answers. Killing is ruining/ending human life, it is culturally unacceptable, and damaging to society, therefore is also wrong according to humanist beliefs, but you seem to be having a hard time putting those 2 dots together. Go ahead, think about it and why YOUR definition of humanist doesn't fit THE definition of humanist.


God has provided it to you. That is why you think killing is wrong. Is killing wrong because people say it is or because it just is?

You have to try to follow your philosophy further than your own narrow view.

If morality is relative mob rules = morality. So when the majority looked at blacks as less than human. Your system says slavery was moral. So do humans define morality bigbert? Then you are saying what happened in the south was moral because they said it was.

Was it really moral. NO - the Moral Law supersedes popular opinion.

Yes in all circumstances moral relativism is wrong bigbert. It has killed millions. humanism is the most brutal killing machine the world has ever seen. It is the same standard as Marxism- that is its origin. Please educate yourself.

Your logic fails.





[edit on 5/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 04:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by andre18
if god answers prayers why doesn’t god answer the prayers of starving children in Africa? How come god answers yours but not theirs?

It's a simple question....


You are mixing things of a spiritual nature with things of the physical. If somebody says they are the way the are because of God's influence, that doesn't mean they live in lap of luxury, eating three course meals everyday, and that God has given them a limitless credit card and supermodel wife.

It seems you don't really want to know the answer to that question, you've already made up your mind and are only asking it because you think it might somebody else squirm. How do you expect to understand things concerning God when you deny his existence before you even begin?

1Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This is why you do not understand, because it is a spiritual matter, and no matter how many times somebody tries to explain it, you still will not understand, until you yourself begin looking at it from a different angle. All the best.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 04:52 AM
link   
reply to post by andre18
 


That's their interpretation of events, not mine. I think you'll discover, if you even bother to ask them, that it is a rebirth of their faith, not the hand of God in a physical sense, that saved them. As I said before, God doesn't work that way. Nor, in my humble estimation, should He. It's ours to do, or not to do; and the repercussions that follow whatever they may be, are ours as well.

My faith is my own, I don't force it on others. Trust me, I wonder all the time why God permits these things to happen. I do not claim to know the mind of God, perhaps in whatever comes after this life, I'll be able to, but for now? I have to believe that there is a rhyme and reason for all things, that's what faith is after all.

You may believe what you choose, and how you choose to proclaim those beliefs, that's the freewill aspects of our lives.

To answer your last question. Personally, I don't believe God does answer prayers. Nor should He, IMHO. Man is too petty, for the most part, and the answer to any prayer is usually within us in any case.





[edit on 5/28/2008 by seagull]



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 06:31 AM
link   
What has God ever done ? Show me a single thing. There is not a single thing in all of history to show that God has ever done anything - pretty damming evidence considering the hullaballoo surrounding this issue.

God has done nothing, and so why do people insist on believing him - becuase they are scared little puppies who can't think for themselves, were indoctrinated by society and have low IQ's.

Oh and that kid is black - that's probably the main reason - as far as I can tell God is not only callous, he is also a Bigot.


Anyway - each unto their own I suppose.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 06:44 AM
link   
Allah and Budah etc does not seem to be bothered too. Maybe it is the time we do something ..



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 08:21 AM
link   
reply to post by Bspiracy
 


I hear you and just wanted to say that. Again, of course I can't say I agree with you exactly on your definition of God, but I do agree that we, as a human species need to get our stuff together. We should focus as one unit and work using our moral compass as our guide and work for the betterment of society. What hurts this world is the arrogance of the religious AND non-religious. The religious people claim to all think they know what God meant by the Holy Bible, Koran, etc... The non-religious get arrogant saying there is no God, yet they can't explain any miracles or they make excuses for them. Neither argument has ANY shed of proof that they are right, yet they are arrogant enough to keep claiming they know this or that. I say, "hey , I believe in God and believe the Holy Bible is true and hasn't been manipulated by man, not matter how hard man has tried". Does this make me right? No way, just makes me have yet another opinion. I feel good though because I don't shove this down anyone's throat, nor am I set on this being the final word. I'm open to God not even being real, but my experiences tell me otherwise. Either way, if that child is suffering and the world can help, then let's let go of our own pride and arrogance and help this child. This child did not die because of lack of religion. The child died because, for some reason, humans just want to form clicks and separate from each other and have their own little clubs, whether you call them religion or not it doesn't matter. Why must man still live like a caveman and make their life decisions based on fear and protecting oneself above all? Oh well, I'm starting to get a little off-topic. Thanks for your reply. I may not agree with the religious debate with you, but I do agree with the moral one!


JPT



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 08:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by audas
What has God ever done ? Show me a single thing. There is not a single thing in all of history to show that God has ever done anything - pretty damming evidence considering the hullaballoo surrounding this issue.

God has done nothing, and so why do people insist on believing him - becuase they are scared little puppies who can't think for themselves, were indoctrinated by society and have low IQ's.

Oh and that kid is black - that's probably the main reason - as far as I can tell God is not only callous, he is also a Bigot.


Anyway - each unto their own I suppose.


It depends on what history books you believe. If you believe in the Torah or The New Testament, then he did plenty. If you believe those are fake religious books, then you're definitely entitled to that opinion. Scientists and researchers are still debating this. Half seem to say the Torah and New Testament are accurate and more and more evidence is coming out all the time to back this up, while other say there is nothing concrete. Of course, the ones saying there is nothing concrete also state the dinosaurs died in a certain way, yet they have no real proof of that either, just speculation. I think your attitude against religion is just as ignorant as the religious people who don't use any logic and will defend their religion even when terrible things are involved. Whether you are a full believe or believe it is all false, look in the mirror because you are the same as the ones you are making fun of, just on the opposite side. I am religious based on my life experiences, but I'm not about to force that on you or anyone, nor am I about to defend questionable things that happened in the Torah. I have no answers for those and I'm happy to let you live in your reality without belittling you. Your last sentence in your quote is the way I feel, but everything leading up to that seems to conflict with this sentence. Do you truly believe to each their own, or do you believe to each their own as long as they don't believe that God is real? I don't mean to pick out your post, it was just one of the more recent ones I saw. There are TONS of hypocritical posts on this thread and all over ATS. I'm probably just as guilty in my posts from time to time as well. I'm not above this, we are all human, just wanting to give you a few things to look at for yourself.

JPT



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 09:44 AM
link   
reply to post by doctorex
 


Dotorex

I am stunned, you believe in spiritual things.

Not a lot of people around here care about that stuff, they seem to think there is something to be gained from spending all of their time looking at the things of this world, like morality and discipline, or religion and science intellectually speaking, temporal stuff like that.

You are correct, the person who started this thread is not looking for any answer to anything, they are trying to make a statement of belief in dis-belief.

I am putting you in my friends, because I would like to spend more time talking to spiritual minded people, everything else from God's point of view is foolishness.

Only by manifesting spiritual power is God glorified in us and our fellow man helped, He desire that we receive the benefit of His power in operation in our lives, not just intellectual recognitions of things, how silly.

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

All this power God has made available and no one wants to utilize it, denying the whole point for which the Messiah was born, died, resurrected and ascended in the first place.

Power from on high to all who desire it, to prove for themselves literally in definable measurable ways, which Christ is the true Christ, without getting caught up in all that ridiculous trinity Christian religious drivel.

The ability to perform miracles and wonders, and no one talks about it, that it is indeed a curios thing.

1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

There is a great conspiracy in this world which keeps people, like the child in the photograph at the beginning of this thread, from receiving help and comfort when it is needed, it keeps us blind the knowledge and power available to all who will to believe.

Blinded by science and religion, the wisdom of man and the foolishness of this world, the meanderings of the natural mind, ever learning never knowing or experiencing the mind of Christ, the power of God to heal the sick and deliver us from all our bondage and oppression.

Re 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

This is the fate of the followers of the church of progress and of the other Jesus's taught us through science and religion, the place it is leading them, the end of all their wisdom and knowledge.

It is easy to see why only 144,000 are found out of the billions when the time of the end comes, it was the same in the days of Noah, all trusted in the flesh, their faith was in the wisdom of man, every thought and intent was without God, only evil continually.

Col 3:1 ¶ If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Die to this world and live to God or live to this world and die to God.

They can not know or experience the spiritual things God, they have not reasoned in themselves that they and this world are dead, they will never find the mind of Christ.

God is life.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 10:59 AM
link   
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Do we really have to have the same debate on 2 different threads?

I'm already sick of typing on just one, and the fact that I wanted to leave earlier because you just kept repeating the same thing over and over again, and then you feel the need to track me down on another thread is truly sad.



It makes no difference how humanism is defined on paper.


Really? Is this what it's come to? I suppose this IS common practice for Christians, just denying the facts when faced with them. Too threatening to your beliefs?

Hmmm, so it doesn't matter what the definition of humanism is? Well, how can you call all this evil in the world 'humanism' if it doesn't fit the description? 'It doesn't matter what humanism REALLY is, only what I want it to be'. This argument of yours holds no water. This is why you can't use logic and reasoning with a Christian, they STILL won't believe you.



Humanism states that it seeks to define morality by human means. In so doing it destroys morality


Believe it or not, but your morals are not everybody's morals. Morals are developed through society. You are putting everyone up on this scale of judgment based off of YOUR morals. Morals change throughout various societies. Did you read the excerpt about the college professors? Nothing is being destroyed, despite the fact that that's what you want to believe.



Then you have no right to judge Hitler.


You just don't get it, do you? This is such a problem with you Christians, no matter how many times I tell you how Hitler does not fit in with this magical world you're trying to create, you still use his name. Well, I'm not commenting on him anymore. If you haven't gotten it by now, you never will.



Humanisms goals sound good. But that is not relevant. If humnism is true there is no morality and anything goes!


*Bangs head against wall*

Don't you get it yet? Just because someone is not a Christian, DOESN'T mean they don't have morals. Morals are learned and created in society, just as I've already shown you the model of it. But maybe if you keep repeating this sentence over and over again, you might make it true...




God has provided it to you. That is why you think killing is wrong. Is killing wrong because people say it is or because it just is?


God has done nothing. Killing is wrong because it goes against another person, it goes against society, etc. etc. Once again, you are forgetting the several blood thirsty cultures that have existed throughout society in which killing was normal, not wrong. Look at the example I gave earlier. Whether it was killing a baby because it was not perfect, to killing for sacrifice. SOCIETY tells you morals, not God.

You seem to have this image that without moral absolutism (requiring God), the world plunges into chaos and cannot survive. That opinion is of course expected from a Christian. But the TRUTH is very, very different. You just can't handle the fact that people can survive and society can thrive without God telling people what's right and wrong.

Wake up and step outside of your box.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 01:50 PM
link   
reply to post by AlexG141989
 




Well i believe in the type of god that doesnt concern himself with the doings of Human beings, I think god just set up the universe and all if its wonderful laws of nature. I think the problem here is that, the people is the better off counties
arent worrying their next meal. they hope for things like more wealth. If the law of attraction truly is a law of physics, then this might explain their unfortunate circumstances. they are dwelling on the negative because there is so much negative around them, and they are just pushing the cycle on. Its not their fault tho. I agree that there needs to be more humanitarians in the world and less FU@#ed up leaders.



posted on May, 28 2008 @ 03:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

originally posted by bigbert81
The premise of humanism is to allow all human life to flourish and assist with the living of ALL humans, yet you are still on this Hitler thing, even after knowing that he was out to kill all non-arians. This just goes to prove that you have not listened to a word I've written and are being completely unreasonable.


I carefully read every word you wrote.

The only reason you thought you were right bigbert is you were appealing to the very same absolute moral law you are also trying to deny.

It sounds to me like you were communicating : "My humanism wants life to flourish and Hitler killed the Jews. Its not a fair comparison -Big difference -Killing is wrong - it's not just an opinion"

Ohhhh it's not an opinion now?

But then when faced with the realization The Moral Law infers God - you say morals are relative -- ohhhhh -- so now it is just an opinion

Can't have it both ways bigbert. That's why your philosophy of secular humanism fails logically and that's why the "workers paradise" becomes a killing field.

2+2 =/=5

I thought atheists appealed to reason and evidence?

Thanks bigbert.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is for the OP - there's still time to join up bro!

Bob's Mission Journey To Sudan






[edit on 5/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]


have u read a darn thing i've posted??? it looks like u have'nt so please do so



new topics

top topics



 
9
<< 13  14  15    17  18  19 >>

log in

join