To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

Originally posted by flashstorminc
Unfortunately it was both the personal Karma of this child and the collective Karma of his race that has brought him to this sorry state. The law of Karma strictly governs this planet and it is something that "God" has put in place in the creation of this Universe as a tool of learning for it's immortal inhabitants. As someone mentioned before we have many lives and the choices we make in our lives create the causes which then have their effect at some point in the future. This is a divine law.

At some point in the past, the immortal spirit which inhabit's this child's body, in some incarnation created the cause for him to suffer in this horrible fashion. The reason that divine mercy and grace does not intervene to reduce the suffering of this child, is because in this case divine wisdom dictates that this experience of suffering that the child is going through, is something that the immortal spirit inhabiting the child's body needs to experience to learn that the actions it engages in, produce effects and have consequences that are either negative or positve.

Sometimes there are very strict lessons that human beings or entire civilizations of humans must learn, in order to attain their greater destiny as enlightened beings. The divine sees all causes, all karmic situations all influences both positive and negative and out of wisdom sustains and nurtures the evolution of the immortal spirits who make up the human race. In other words this child has a dimension to it's being that is spiritual and has a destiny far beyond the physical suffering that he is currently enduring.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by flashstorminc]

flashstorminc, very eloquently put. I'm really wondering why nobody wants to address the Buddhist point of view. (Buddhism can also be seen as a religion, so it is in accordance with the OP's question about the deeply religious.) I posted the same point of view on page 12, but got no reply from the OP

OP, are you familiar with a book called "A History Of God" by Karen Armstrong? It's an excellent guide. It shows you how the various world religions put a trademark on GOD. The meaning of the Ultimate Reality got altered and distorted over millenia.

Now, to answer your original question. Yes, GOD helps Bill Gates and starving children. The Mystic Law is universal and governs everything. Please re-read flashstorminc and my post re karma.

BTW: your question hits home big time. My father lost faith over similar questions. All he sees is a world where the big dog eats the weaker one. My Buddhist practice has shown me that there is more to this world than Darwinism. The pillars of Nichiren-Buddhism are: Faith, Study and Practice.

Since when did God's existence become fact anyway?

The majority of this thread consists of bible-thumping morons telling us how "God does this", "God works in mysterious ways", "God's plan is this", etc etc. How do you know? You're in fantasy land and your words mean nothing, unless you can back them up with solid proof.

It's like me going on a four paragraph long rant about how God didn't save the kid because around 1827 years ago he decided to retire and now just sits around on clouds all day and does a bit of gardening in his spare time. But don't worry, he''ll come out of retirement and have a fight with Richard Dawkins and the winner gets to rule the universe. I read it in a book so it must be true.

The above paragraph holds as much weight as anything posted in this thread. Except of course the most logical explanation, which is that God/a higher power does not exist.


[edit on 27-5-2008 by Lurch]

Originally posted by crestone

Originally posted by flashstorminc
Unfortunately it was both the personal Karma of this child and the collective Karma of his race that has brought him to this sorry state. The law of Karma strictly governs this planet and it is something that "God" has put in place in the creation of this Universe as a tool of learning for it's immortal inhabitants. As someone mentioned before we have many lives and the choices we make in our lives create the causes which then have their effect at some point in the future. This is a divine law.

At some point in the past, the immortal spirit which inhabit's this child's body, in some incarnation created the cause for him to suffer in this horrible fashion. The reason that divine mercy and grace does not intervene to reduce the suffering of this child, is because in this case divine wisdom dictates that this experience of suffering that the child is going through, is something that the immortal spirit inhabiting the child's body needs to experience to learn that the actions it engages in, produce effects and have consequences that are either negative or positve.

Sometimes there are very strict lessons that human beings or entire civilizations of humans must learn, in order to attain their greater destiny as enlightened beings. The divine sees all causes, all karmic situations all influences both positive and negative and out of wisdom sustains and nurtures the evolution of the immortal spirits who make up the human race. In other words this child has a dimension to it's being that is spiritual and has a destiny far beyond the physical suffering that he is currently enduring.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by flashstorminc]

flashstorminc, very eloquently put. I'm really wondering why nobody wants to address the Buddhist point of view. (Buddhism can also be seen as a religion, so it is in accordance with the OP's question about the deeply religious.) I posted the same point of view on page 12, but got no reply from the OP

OP, are you familiar with a book called "A History Of God" by Karen Armstrong? It's an excellent guide. It shows you how the various world religions put a trademark on GOD. The meaning of the Ultimate Reality got altered and distorted over millenia.

Now, to answer your original question. Yes, GOD helps Bill Gates and starving children. The Mystic Law is universal and governs everything. Please re-read flashstorminc and my post re karma.

BTW: your question hits home big time. My father lost faith over similar questions. All he sees is a world where the big dog eats the weaker one. My Buddhist practice has shown me that there is more to this world than Darwinism. The pillars of Nichiren-Buddhism are: Faith, Study and Practice.

sorry for not replying to your post but i quickly lost interest in this thread because people kept missing what i was trying to say and assuming that i was blaming god when i was'nt... thanx for your opinion on the matter

[edit on 27-5-2008 by AlexG141989]

Originally posted by flashstorminc
Unfortunately it was both the personal Karma of this child and the collective Karma of his race that has brought him to this sorry state. The law of Karma strictly governs this planet and it is something that "God" has put in place in the creation of this Universe as a tool of learning for it's immortal inhabitants. As someone mentioned before we have many lives and the choices we make in our lives create the causes which then have their effect at some point in the future. This is a divine law.

At some point in the past, the immortal spirit which inhabit's this child's body, in some incarnation created the cause for him to suffer in this horrible fashion. The reason that divine mercy and grace does not intervene to reduce the suffering of this child, is because in this case divine wisdom dictates that this experience of suffering that the child is going through, is something that the immortal spirit inhabiting the child's body needs to experience to learn that the actions it engages in, produce effects and have consequences that are either negative or positve.

Sometimes there are very strict lessons that human beings or entire civilizations of humans must learn, in order to attain their greater destiny as enlightened beings. The divine sees all causes, all karmic situations all influences both positive and negative and out of wisdom sustains and nurtures the evolution of the immortal spirits who make up the human race. In other words this child has a dimension to it's being that is spiritual and has a destiny far beyond the physical suffering that he is currently enduring.


[edit on 27-5-2008 by flashstorminc]

... i know its your point of view but to me this is completely ridiculous imo

first off... we have no proof of having many lives... so sorry if im wrong but to me it sounds like your condoning the suffering of others because they are being punished for something they supposedly did in a previous life...

At some point in the past, the immortal spirit which inhabit's this child's body, in some incarnation created the cause for him to suffer in this horrible fashion.

yup thats exactly what your saying... ok i dont believe your a mean spirited person or that you condone the suffering of others but by this logic.. it sounds like u do... and another thing... why must a spirit pay for its past mistakes in a future life??? why does it have to pay its debts in the body of someone who is completely innocent, and has no recollection of a supposed previous life where he was evil???

reply to post by bigbert81

Bible/creator, it's the same principle, without EITHER of these, you are saying the exact same thing I've just accused you of, just with different terminology.

You are just lying again for all to see. True colors always shine through.

The Bible is a book made of paper. God is the omnipresent, omniscient, glorious, and holy creator of the universe. He formed you in your mothers womb. They are NOT the same thing.

So drop the whole strawman/lie accusations. It's getting friggin' old and I'm tired of hearing it. You are missing the whole points I'm laying out because I didn't use a verbatim quote.

As you have just demonstrated again you are just a bald-faced liar. You completely reversed the meaning of what I said. You don't address my points - you modify them and then address your fantasies. It is hardly surprising. You are in a logically inconsistent position. It naturally follows that you have to resort to falsehood to defend it. I provided plenty specific examples for the reader to see in my last post...

( I invite the reader to please see my previous post to compare what he says I said compared to what I actually typed)
See this post

no need to defend myself any more- you did yourself in- bigbert.

So much for secular humanist morality.

And does the origin of the word 'charity' really matter? If religion DID beget charity, what about the secular charities? Did religion beget those too?

The fact the word charity comes from Christianity speaks volumes bigbert. Did mathematics beget geometry? Since charity is a Christian concept. Obviously it did.

And apparently, this is a 'moral absolutism' vs. 'moral relativism' debate. Saying 'morality is absolute' is an opinion, not a fact.

t is a fact. All reasonable people can recognize it too. Get out of denial. You just can't face it because it is a fact that destroys your blind faith in atheism.

Again people who value human freedom know the source of human rights and dignity is the absolute Moral Law.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

"Self evident" means they objective and obvious to everyone not a matter of opinion. "endowed by their Creator" means from God.

If they are not from God but man then there is nothing wrong with men deciding to take them away. Since the majority opinion in the USA is theist and Christian. And you say morality is decided by human opinion. Thus it is completely moral that we jail all atheists, confiscate their property and give it all to Pat Robertson.

How do you like your moral relativism bibbert?

Morals ARE relative.

If morality is relative then there is no difference between Mother Theresa and Hitler but your opinion.

They are based off of your own logic, society, culture, history, etc.

Hitler based his morality off his own logic and Darwinian principals just like you are.

The fact that you see morals as absolute, while I see them as relative, only goes to fuel my fire.

Ideas have consequences Lets pretend bigbert is right - (a nightmare)- and morality has "natural" origins - it is not objective or absolute- there is no God and humans have evolved form the primordial soup - then we have no higher moral status than soup because there is nothing beyond us to instill us with morality or dignity.

So, what if we took God out of your equation? What then?

Usually bulldozers moving corpses.

It is not a straw man to pint out the consequences of the ideas you defend bigbert. Your ideas have brutal cruel consequences for humanity. I do not have to assume or speculate. History holds the truth of your so called "humanist" philosophy...

"If nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger she wishes even less hat a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one. Because in such cases all of her efforts throughout thousands of years to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being goes futile. But such a preservation goes hand in hand with the law that it is the strongest and the best that must triumph and that they have the right to endure. He who live must fight. He who does not wish to fight in this world where permanent struggle is the law of life. Has not the right to exist." - Adolf Hitler

Morals HAVE to be relative, as that is how society develops. What I'm seeing with you though, is that you are not considering the possibility of no God and lonely humans.

No bigbert morals only have to be relative to defend Atheism.

The fact that everyone intrinsically knows they are not relative - there is in fact a moral standard- just proves God existence. The fact you refuse the obvious fact that morality is indeed objective proves that you are unwilling to acknowledge the possibility that you are wrong about atheism. Atheism is false bigbert.

Relativism is also false. Human beings do not determine right and wrong. They discover it. If human beings decide what is right and wrong then anyone would be right to say that rape and murder is not really wrong. But we know better through our conscience which are manifestations of the Moral Law. It is a prescription on the hearts of all people thus it is from a source higher than ourselves.

reply to post by Lurch


Why the need to be so offensive there, Lurch? You don't share that belief? Fine. You are certainly welcome to that view. But to call people "bible thumping morons" is just a tad over the top, don't you think?

That little child dying, along with multitudes of others through out the world, should inspire us to help our common man. Whether we do so out of a belief that God wants us to, or through a sense of humanity, doesn't really matter, it's two names for the very same thing. Only a certain level of blindness would tell you otherwise.





[edit on 5/27/2008 by seagull]

Originally posted by Lurch
Since when did God's existence become fact anyway?

A more accurate question would be, "Since when did it come into question?" Atheism is a relativity new pathological phenomenon to humanity. For the vast majority of history mankind has believed in God. The vast majority of humanity still does.

Originally posted by AlexG141989

Originally posted by Lantian
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

Who says he helps any of us? it's all conjecture and subjective.

i know i know, personally i dont believe in divine intervention... im just trying to understand the logic of these people who think they're so special that god would save them but forget about people like the kid in the pic

Who gave you the idea that those who believe in GOD think they're so special and more worth saving than that precious child? Did one of them piss in your wheaties or something?

here's an answer though for what its worth:

GOD is NOT the author of death....There is NO death in HIM...that child is the victim of a world system that thrives on class and racial hatred, greed and indifference and many many good people, both believers and non-believers,
work tirelessly to improve the lives of children like this all over the world...

so for those who really want to help I suggest:

ASAP

Goal

The Africa guide

Help Sudan

this is very short list - there are many such organizations and groups - lots to do so DO something...please.

reply to post by AlexG141989




AlexG141989
"i am not blaming god... i dont even believe in the christian god so how can i blame him??? i think poverty in the 3rd world is mans fault, and it is... i just think people need to stop attributing all the good in the world to some god when everything that happens i just a part of life... "

AlexG141989
......God couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child"


Dude did you take your medication today or what. you keep talking in a big circle...now look up there at your quotes. does or does not your statement attribute some blame of the situation to god.

As per your denial that you do not even believe in God we can go back to my original statement that you have issues. Not because you have an opinion but because your opinion is based on the fact that it is bothering you that Christians thank God for the good in their life, or events they feel he is responsible for.....who cares dude go have a dip, a bong and blintze, or go eat a fat bistro sandwich...maybe try some meditation and think of your happy place or reflect on your inner child.... pick a battle you can do something about.....Like I said before I dont get vegetarians but I am not out there trying to get them to eat meat. It does not concern me. What are you the thought police....give it up. Take your meds or go see a shrink and get some.

Originally posted by birchtree
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

AlexG141989
"i am not blaming god... i dont even believe in the christian god so how can i blame him??? i think poverty in the 3rd world is mans fault, and it is... i just think people need to stop attributing all the good in the world to some god when everything that happens i just a part of life... "

AlexG141989
......God couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child"


Dude did you take your medication today or what. you keep talking in a big circle...now look up there at your quotes. does or does not your statement attribute some blame of the situation to god.

As per your denial that you do not even believe in God we can go back to my original statement that you have issues. Not because you have an opinion but because your opinion is based on the fact that it is bothering you that Christians thank God for the good in their life, or events they feel he is responsible for.....who cares dude go have a dip, a bong and blintze, or go eat a fat bistro sandwich...maybe try some meditation and think of your happy place or reflect on your inner child.... pick a battle you can do something about.....Like I said before I dont get vegetarians but I am not out there trying to get them to eat meat. It does not concern me. What are you the thought police....give it up. Take your meds or go see a shrink and get some.

your an idiot dude... i already told you i wasnt blaming god, i admitted that i might've worded some things wrong in my first post that didnt come out the way i intended... and if you wouldve bothered to read what the hell i wrote u would have saw that... and now your insulting me???

"God couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child"

what i meant by this was... if god can help some middle class guy, why not a poor kid?... i dont understand that logic.... ok???... have you managed to comprehend that yet??? i know it may be a little complicated for somebody with as little brain power as you but it really isnt that hard...

pray to god and maybe he'll make you smarter

do you got that??? because if your going to reply to me with the same responses you have been... don't bother because i wont reply back... because its irritating having to explain the same thing over and over... end of discussion

reply to post by Bigwhammy





*Applause*

Yep, there you have it. Well done, well done.

There's your little tactics and childish bickering showing again. Calling me names now are we? Ooooooooo.

I LOVE how I try to debate something with you (religion being the cause of morality), and you resort to calling me names and wanting to fight about whether you said Bible or Creator. LOVE IT. And then , and then, you tell me the difference between the two like I don't know it, even though they both lead to the point we were debating in the first place (religion). Genius, really.

And your comparisons...GENIUS. I mean even though Mother Theresa was attempting at making the world a better place to live in (from the excerpt I posted earlier which you chose to ignore), and Hitler did quite the OPPOSITE, you still make the same comparison, no matter how I try telling you that it's not correct. Brilliant!

Who was it that said 'If you say something enough times, it becomes true'?

I honestly just LOVE the way you completely ignore many of my points, EVEN when I point out that you've ignored them. There must be a certain artistic quality to do that over and over again. Or the way that you just ignore that there REALLY IS a morality absolutism vs. morality relativism debate and make it like your word is the law.

Your overly closed mind that obviously hasn't even considered that there is no God, is completely shut off to how our society and civilization has evolved, and you assume that God automatically puts morals in people, despite the fact that so many people have different sets of morals. God must just be experimenting, right? Morality is developed by means of which I've already stated, yet you choose to continue to ignore. Is this how religion works? Once faced with alternate info, you just ignore it because it's too much of a threat? Hmmm, sounds about right.

People learn their morals from the society and friends and family around them. It's not magically instilled upon us. Are you trying to convince yourself that God has to do SOMETHING, otherwise he doesn't exist? Is this what gives God a purpose in your mind? I guess he needs to be responsible for something, because look at the picture in the OP again. There you go, does that make you feel better. C'mon, does it? Is this the last shred of faith you have left? You just HAVE to know that he does SOMETHING with his time.

In the meantime of your ignorant bliss, you have completely forgotten any other society than this one. A pretty common thing for a closed-minded Christian, so don't feel too bad. Perhaps if you took a humanities course in college, or a sociology class, you might see that it IS society and culture and history and nature and nurture and reason that develop a person's morality. Guess what, that makes it (oh, is he gonna say it? Is he?) RELATIVE. Yaaaaaaay!

I have been saying time and time again (another thing you've completely shut off because it threatens your views, a very common practice among Christians) is that the world would be better with HUMANISTS, not just atheists, but you cannot seem to understand that there is a difference. One I've tried conveying like many other points which I'm tired of having to say over and over again, therefore, this will be my last post in this thread.

Awwwww. Are you going to call me more names? Sorry, but deal with it. I hate debating with people who completely ignore what I say as if it was never said, and then just continue to regurgitate what they say over and over again. I'm tired of repeating myself and having you ignore it. Continue about your safe, magical ways. God has to be good for something, right? Ignore that God has completely left us alone and society has developed their own standards.

And you may be right about religion ORIGINALLY creating charity, but it's not that way anymore. For the 3rd time, research the damned numbers I pointed out, but I don't expect you will because that might threaten the way you think, and we all know that would be devastating to a Christian.

You're done, I'm out.

reply to post by bigbert81


It is about morality bigbert because your humanism philosophy has consequences you just never considered. It's not about me. What whizzzes right by your head is that - if as you assert - there is no objective absolute morality, then your assessment of Hitler or Mother Theresa is purely your personal opinion. Hitler has a different opinion. So who is moral bigbert?

Hitler and many other Germans logically believed in what they were doing. It was for the betterment of humanity - to evolve into a superior human race. HUMANISTIC VALUES. Yet even Hitler had to dehumanize the Jews by calling them an inferior race - because even he knew down inside killing was wrong.

The only reason you judge him as wrong and Mother Theresa is right is there is an absolute standard to judge by. Let that sink in for a few years and you will wake up to the fact there is a Moral Law. It is written into your conscience. Deep down inside you know its true. Atheism is false.

Different cultures does not mean a different Moral Law the Law is absolute. Indians think it is immoral to eat Cows. We eat Cows. Do we have different morals? No - we don't. Indians believe reincarnated humans are inside cows; so you might be actually eating Grand Pa. Now do we eat Grand Pa? Nope! See the rules are different -- The Moral law is the same!


Believe me the moral law does not change. Peoples perceptions of the ethical dilemmas they are judging do. For instance people used to burn witches. Now we don't. Did the moral law change. No. People used to believe witches murdered people and destroyed crops by cursing them. We no longer believe that hence we no longer burn witches. We still believe murder and destroying crops is wrong we just don't believe witches do it anymore. Because people interpret the facts surrounding a particular issue does not change the objective moral standard. Make sense?

I am sure you are probably a fine fellow deep down - you only acted so deceptive to me because you are backed into a corner and your beliefs are logically incongruent. I do understand - I didn't always believe the truth of God either. Nothing personal. You just have been sold some really really dangerous and false ideas.



[edit on 5/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Wow, without reading all the threads it's easy to see this topic got on some unaswerable tangents. However if I may add my 2 cents worth. The photo moved me deeply and reminds me how well we have it here in the west. If that photo moved you may I suggest sponsoring one child to help those in need. Your heart and life will be enriched by the experience.
Now for the other questions:
1. I believe in the Biblical God.
2. If the child did not make it, he/she IS in heaven and is no longer suffering, as are all children who have suffered in this world. A comfort for many parents who have lost children.
3.None of us should be judging/condemning anyone as we ALL have the power to help.
Let,s go forth and make a positive change in this world of darkness. Thx

reply to post by AlexG141989


Simple answer?

Because he doesn't exist

Although I'm sure the religious right can come up with myriad 'reasons' why 'god' does not help these children. The usual nonsense like: 'self determination', 'free will' etc etc etc ad nauseum... just excuses though really...

J.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Lurch
Since when did God's existence become fact anyway?

A more accurate question would be, "Since when did it come into question?" Atheism is a relativity new pathological phenomenon to humanity. For the vast majority of history mankind has believed in God. The vast majority of humanity still does.

Yes, but humanity has historically not believed in YOUR god He's only been on the scene a few thousand years BW - a late-comer really in terms of human history. God worship is the 'pathological phenomenon', not aetheism, which is simply common logic.

There have been a thousand gods before yours - there will probably be a few more after yours has dissapeared into obscurity - along with Zeus, Amon and the rest.

J.

reply to post by AlexG141989


by AlexG141989
your an idiot dude... i already told you i wasnt blaming god, i admitted that i might've worded some things wrong in my first post that didnt come out the way i intended... and if you wouldve bothered to read what the hell i wrote u would have saw that... and now your insulting me???

That is fine that you worded somethings wrong and yes I did read what you said. I have also given an answer to your original question ( or at least my opinion)

I have also tried to reason with you about what could be happening, but what is the big deal.. OK SO YOU don't understand why God would help someone that is well off in comparison to the poor child in the picture. Join the club.but you dont believe in a Christian God so that really makes it a non-issue.

So you are trying to make a point to Christians that say that they get help from God on little things that don't matter as much, say for example the child in the picture......and you want people that pray to God, especially Christians to realize the indifference between their petty little cares, which they thank God for, and that childs life (or any major matter for that fact).....but you don't believe in God you are just trying to make the point to them how insignificant their cares really are to the rest of the world and that if there was a God this wouldnt happen it just the natural cycle of life, so they should stop thinking that way and you just dont get it.

So with out me telling you that you need meds or you stating what an idiot I am I will tell you why I believe what I do, it may not make sense to you, but then to me neither is your way of thought.

When I wake up in the morning and I take my shower I often thank God that I have Hot water and clean things and a job. I feel I am blessed and I try not to take it at face value that I have nice things. Also I praise God when things go right for me and I see things for what they are when they do not go my way. I do pray to God and ask him for things, but mostly when I pray, I pray for others. My family, my child and any problems and ailments they might have, then I pray for my friends and enemies, that they might have good and wisdom come to them to do the right things in life, I pray for the leaders and people of the world.

I am not better then you, heck I could be worse then you....I have not been to Church in a very very long time, but i do believe as it is written in the Bible that if you pray for something that is needed and you pray for it in Jesus name that you shall ask and it shall be received....I dont think that makes me an idiot, maybe to you it does I am still a human just like all my people on this earth. Maybe its the fact that Christians ask and when they receive it they thank God....this life does not always make sense. I have been to Africa the middle East and most of the Pacific Rim I have seen horrible things..I have never been to Sudan or Darfur I have never seen wide spread famine or a people that committed genocide upon it own people and I dont want to either, but with in me prayer and thanks to God even in the bad times helps me, and it helps others too.

Like I said you would not be attacking my faith because I know where I stand, I am far from perfect, I mixed your words around because to me you said you were not saying things that you clearly wrote, I took it off the deep end and I knew it would upset you, but that is the way I am. To me it is disturbing that it bothers you that much, that is what I dont get...so instead of bashing it up again I figure I would open myself and tell you what I believe and why ...I hope that helps you some.

Originally posted by AlexG141989
... i know its your point of view but to me this is completely ridiculous imo

first off... we have no proof of having many lives... so sorry if im wrong but to me it sounds like your condoning the suffering of others because they are being punished for something they supposedly did in a previous life...

In spite of the fact that reincarnation cannot be proven to anyone without the necessary spiritual training, it nevertheless is very real. The law of karma is not one of punishment, it is simply cause and effect. Suffering happens because the causes for suffering are created and ripen. Whether I condone it or not is not the issue, suffering is part of life and has a source.

and another thing... why must a spirit pay for its past mistakes in a future life??? why does it have to pay its debts in the body of someone who is completely innocent, and has no recollection of a supposed previous life where he was evil???

One reason why a spirit is trained through many lifetimes is to develop a deep and abiding sense of responsibility for it's actions. In spite of the fact that the personality of the individual has no recollection of it's previous lives, does not absolve the spirit of it's responsibility of past actions. Other reasons are so that the spirit of the individual can attain many greater spiritual realizations such as universal compassion, the oneness of all things, and ultimately enlightenment. These not in a intellectual sense, but to experience those realizations from a cosmic and divine perspective. Thus having many incarnations in many different personalities each unaware of each other, facilitates real spiritual growth.


[edit on 27-5-2008 by flashstorminc]

reply to post by birchtree


When I wake up in the morning and I take my shower I often thank God that I have Hot water and clean things and a job. I feel I am blessed and I try not to take it at face value that I have nice things. Also I praise God when things go right for me and I see things for what they are when they do not go my way. I do pray to God and ask him for things, but mostly when I pray, I pray for others. My family, my child and any problems and ailments they might have, then I pray for my friends and enemies, that they might have good and wisdom come to them to do the right things in life, I pray for the leaders and people of the world.

oh actually it does make sence to me... i was stuck in this train of thought all my life until i "saw the light" so to speak... thanking god for everything never actually did anything for me... i realized that any prayer of mine that god supposedly answered is something i did on my own... but i dont knock your beliefs

I am not better then you, heck I could be worse then you....I have not been to Church in a very very long time, but i do believe as it is written in the Bible that if you pray for something that is needed and you pray for it in Jesus name that you shall ask and it shall be received....I dont think that makes me an idiot,

no that doesnt make you an idiot... i called you that not because of what you believe, but because you kept saying i was blaming god when throughout the thread i continously said i wasnt.. and then you proceeded to insult me.. but that doesnt matter now...

To me it is disturbing that it bothers you that much, that is what I dont get...so instead of bashing it up again I figure I would open myself and tell you what I believe and why ...I hope that helps you some.

it doesnt "bother" me that christians thank god for giving them meaningless things... i just dont understand the mindset... all people that believe in god seem to be that way, even i used to think that way... i used to thank god over every little good insignificant thing that happened to me... i thought "wow something good happened, this was gods doing" i never thought "if god does something good for me, why not the kids in messed up situations"... they dont really have anything to be thankful to god for... people say life is a blessing but life in third world countries is anything but a blessing...

anyway i hope u understood what i was trying to say just now cuz as u know im not that good explaining things

reply to post by Bigwhammy


You know, I was done with this stupid debate, but with your ridiculous post, I feel the need to reply once more.

The premise of humanism is to allow all human life to flourish and assist with the living of ALL humans, yet you are still on this Hitler thing, even after knowing that he was out to kill all non-arians. This just goes to prove that you have not listened to a word I've written and are being completely unreasonable.

Let's also consider that I was trying to talk about religion creating morals, but you continued to want to debate over the word you said. And you call me being deceptive. What a joke.

Don't bother responding, I won't read it.