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To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

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posted on May, 26 2008 @ 09:47 PM
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Why are people blameing the photogropher? It's NOT his fault the kid died, sure he should have helped him, but he is clearly too far gone to be saved!




posted on May, 26 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by mapsurfer
Does anyone know about the SuperNova? We have a sense of urgency to
get a message back in time. Who can jump? Plz help... Dont worry the social aspects of why God did x...





posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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The world is corrupt. Satan was given dominion over it. That's why bad things happen. The world was corrupted when Adam and Eve chose to sin after being deceived by Satan. Their decision to do so cast them out of the garden and in to the world. Age, Sickness, Murder, Starvation and every other ill you can think of were then unleashed.

If you want to get in to why all this occured you have to get in to a greater discussion about free will, which is off topic and too involved for a silly internet thread.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by AlexG141989
 


We humans need to take more responsibilities for our selves and others around us



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:13 PM
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posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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I take it ur not a Christian? because if you were, then you would have the virtue to answer the question yourself. but its ok. I will help you see the light.

you see, God gives us options, choices. he does not predetermine our lives and our faith. our birthplace, race, skin colour is not determined by God. God made Adam and Eve..not us. We are the decendants of our ancestors.

So my point is that God does not choose where we live or what we are, but its up to us to evolve who we are as a person by God.

Although God is the creator, im sure he did not bestow such a burdon on his people. he cannot help people just like that. It is up to US as people of God to help others in need. Its upto US, not God himself to help these people. Its within us, and our faith to help them.

There are so many evil people on this earth which allow these things to happen. Evil is everywhere because earth is where Satan resides. Now if you dont beleive me study the bible, although some of it is ammended and edited it think youl get a clear example.

It is upto us as people to change this world. God will save us if we do so.

I know its unfair to these people, but for the poor is the riches of heaven. See 'beatitudes'.

This photographer, akthough he could have done so much more, gave in the easy way. Like most of us. Just imagine what he would be thinking? he would feel so hopeless being surrounded in such a way. he could have done more. But just think of it, he took a photo which change our persepective on the wolrds poor. It is becuase of this photo that we are here discussing the situation.

We put so much trust in God for the most stupid of things. We pray to win the lottery, to win sports matches, to have good health etc etc. Yet We are not thankful when we recieve it. We question God if we do not get what we asked him for. God does not win sports games, God does not win lotteries,. He is there for people to have faith in, to have hope for winning a lottery, to have hope in receiving good health. That we must understand.

we rely on God for everything, yet it is upto us to change the way we live. that is the key to eternal salvation.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Wow. You're REALLY stretching here.

You're posts have been implying that you are a better person, and that all Christians are, and when we look at your last post:



it's an evil philosophy


That just goes to strengthen my point and show me that you truly do NOT know, NOR have you read anything about humanists or what they believe. To say that Mother Theresa and Hitler are the same in my views is so friggin' ignorant it doesn't even deserve a response.

Do me a favor, study what you're talking about before you talk about it.

[edit on 5/26/2008 by bigbert81]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:25 PM
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God doesn't do anything that interferes with the free-will of man. If man allows for people to starve, then they will starve, if man allows for others to live as millionaires, then it is so.

It's man who allows those people to starve and when they die and are no longer at the foot of man's display of stupidity, then they are justified in the after life.

Many who have experienced miracles receive them after devoting their whole lives to God through Jesus Christ and practice their faith daily, and the miracle cannot be interfered with by man. Food supplies are controlled by man, blindness and back problems are not. If a village is locked around its boarders and food is kept from their access, then they unfortunately bare the burden of representing a most negative side of humanity.

When someone devotes their lives to God, those people would gladly bare that burden in the place of those who suffer so deeply, I would. But I was born in America, and because I was born in a certain place on earth I receive unfair advantages because man has made life unfair according to their choices in free-will.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Wow. You're REALLY stretching here.

You're posts have been implying that you are a better person, and that all Christians are,


No Christians admit they are sinners in need of a savior. Humanists believe they are good out of their own arrogance.



That just goes to strengthen my point and show me that you truly do NOT know, NOR have you read anything about humanists or what they believe. To say that Mother Theresa and Hitler are the same in my views is so friggin' ignorant it doesn't even deserve a response.

Do me a favor, study what you're talking about before you talk about it.


I am willing to wager i have studied it a great deal more than you imagine. You ignorant of the philosophical and logical implications of secular humanism or you would be forced to agree by the morality of secular humanism their is no difference between Mother Theresa and Hitler.

I guess a little philosophy lesson is in order, after all ATS is about denying ignorance. ...isn't it?

First, I do not think you are a bad person, I think you have been deceived by atheistic sophistry.

Why do you think you should help people?

Is it the "right" thing to do? Why?

There is only one real reason that works logically. And I have studied it in detail. The Moral Law is absolute and unchanging, it is not subject to public opinion. It is written on your conscience by God.

1. Every law has a law giver.
2. There is a moral law
3. Therefore there is a moral law giver.

There can be no legislation without a legislature. If there are moral obligations there must be someone you are obligated too. By taking God out of the picture you completely undermine the basis for morality. Without an absolute objective standard of morality - then life is meaningless. You can't have it both ways.

Either morality is absolute or it is not. If it's not - then everything is a matter of public opinion or preference. ( that's humanism) So what that Hitler didn't prefer Jews? It's like chocolate and vanilla. By what standard can you judge him if there is no objective morality? What gives you the right?

That's why secular humanism always leads to mass murders like in China and the Soviet Union it is an amoral philosophy all wrapped up in a nice little humanitarian package to deceive the uneducated.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Bspiracy
I used to like ATS but after reading 6 pages and seeing brand new members post really dumb, ignorant and thoughtless posts in reponse to a question from the soul.. Aargh.. It's just hard to swallow. sigh.
If you are new and reading this, think about your answers and be concise..

[....]

Granted, I don't know what god is completely as well. But I feel I have a better view of it.


[sarcasm] We all apologise for having an opinion, and we needn't have one at all, since we now bow at your feet, since you know best
[/sarcasm]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Perhaps, you need a little lesson in types of atheists.



Atheism is defined as “A person who believes there is no God.” The atheism category has two distinct factions. One faction can be referred to as humanitarian atheists. These people are often very caring, generous, loving, and wonderful people with strong humanitarian interests. The other pole of atheism can be referred to as the ego-atheists. Ego-atheists often show themselves to be egocentric worshipers of money, power, ego, and/or fame.


Your fault is assuming that people only do charity work for their own personal gain in the eyes of God. You're also assuming that all atheists fall under the Ego-atheist category and not the Humanitarian-atheists to which I am referring.

And for Humanists:



Humanism is a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly rationality


You are basically saying that humanists are incapable of using reason to know the difference between bad and good because God does not fit in their belief structures. It's not about selfish desires, but about human and societal interests. Growing as a civilization.



The ultimate goal is human flourishing; making life better for all humans



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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I understand your pain, and yes it does make one wonder exactly why this is allowed to happen. I can tell you this, it says in the bible that the little children who were with the Israelites who rebelled against God during the wandering in the desert would be allowed to enter in to the promised land. The passage- "Moreover, your little ones who you said would become prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good and evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it."

So in that context it appears that God has answered this age old question of why He allows young children to suffer and die, because they will go to heaven, and I think possibly remain in that same child like state for eternity.

Also, it is funny that I saw your post as the first post today, because I was thinking along those same lines...like why did God allow so many people to die in the tsunami and the China quake? Then it hit me, He allowed it to happen because of the preordained timeline that HAS to be followed.

Think of it like this, if you are supposed to die on a certain date but you pray to God and he hears your prayer and brings you through, it affects the preordained timeline so much so, that now He (God) will have to change future eventualities in order to get back to the original set timeline.

Now imagine being in charge, and saving say 1,000-10,000 people a day who were supposed to die on a set date, yet now because of their faith and their prayers to you, you decide to save them. Now all the future interactions that they have on this earth change the timeline so that you would have to make many other changes in order to get back to the original preset timeline.

It boggles the imagination of how much knowledge and power it would require in order to make that happen, yet that is what I think God does on a daily basis.

I know this is deep thinking, but that is why I believe things are generally allowed to play out as they were preordained.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Atheists change the definition to suit the situation. The United States Supreme Court has ruled that atheism is a religion. I'll go wi their definition it carries moe weight than your opinion.


Your fault is assuming that people only do charity work for their own personal gain in the eyes of God. You're also assuming that all atheists fall under the Ego-atheist category and not the Humanitarian-atheists to which I am referring.


But look here bert; why do you keep putting words in mouth? I know that there are well behaving atheists. All I said the vast majority of charity workers are religious folks. You don't see the American Atheist Society Soup Kitchen in your nearest inner city do you? But I will bet their is a Salvation Army. Sorry if it makes you feel guilty. That's all I said the rest is your little straw man tactic to avoid that simple reality. It is just a true statement. The inferences that follow logically are not my fault.



You are basically saying that humanists are incapable of using reason to know the difference between bad and good because God does not fit in their belief structures. It's not about selfish desires, but about human and societal interests. Growing as a civilization.


You are dancing around the real issue. Reason does not define a moral standard. Hitler though it was quite reasonable to do what he did. Without an absolute moral law - it's all opinion. Humanism completely undermines morality. See above the post.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 11:32 PM
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Wow! Y'all still going at it I see. Well it's more points for the Thread maker....
LMAO



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


See, that's the problem I'm having. You are claiming that without the Bible and hopes of going to heaven, that people cannot determine what's good and bad. I take issue with that. People are able to know the difference between good and evil without needing a book to tell them.

And yes, you are right, there are more religiously run charities than not, but I believe that if we didn't have religion, and in the future, the ratio will be flipped. I believe that you are saying that religion is causing people to help, while I feel that that is only part of it in the current days. I think that if we did not have religion, there would still be many charitable organizations, and it appears that you would disagree.

If the world had less religion and more humanitarians, the world would be a better place with more charities than religious ones which are around for their own benefits of coming closer to God.

Don't make the mistake of forgetting the work humanitarian atheists HAVE done in helping people. People like Norman Borlaug.

Here is a list of famous atheists. I'm sure you'll recognize some of them for the amazing work they've done:

www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org...

It seems in your posts that you are suggesting that Christians have a better chance at helping people and society, and as you'll see, I disagree.



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by AlexG141989
 


BY ALEXG141989
"blueracer... im not blaming god that this kid died, if its anyones fault its the photographers... im trying to make a point to the religious folk who say god helps them and whatnot...

Blaming God is exactly what you are doing!


BY ALEXG141989
" Can you please give me a reasonas to why God couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child"

It looks to me by the picture that God did place someone in that childs presence that could of helped him

BY ALEXG141989
"well couldnt god with his all mightyness have placed someone that was up to the task??? to me it looks more like this photographer came across a dying kid and decided it would make a nice picture..."

here I will let your words do the talking

BY ALEXG141989
"if its anyones fault its the photographers"


BY ALEXG141989
"and are u really accusing me of using this picture to attack your faith??? i dont really give a damn what anybody believes in (no matter how primitive the belief may be)... i was using this pic as an example..."

I will let your own words answer that too

BY ALEXG141989
im trying to make a point to the religious folk who say god helps them and whatnot...


If you are not seeing how your words are not adding up I am sorry....and you are not attacking my faith. I think it is a raw deal and instead of denying that somehow something like this might be your calling and telling other people it is a cop out, do what you think you need to do, but quit trying to prove points and blame God for not being there, the photographer whom committed suicide (maybe even from this very same topic) or scorn others because church people believe God did this or that for them (which by the way is attempting to attack their faith)

I will tell you I do not know how the Mind of God works, but I do know that you have the choice, weather you believe it is free will from God or just your birthright to do something...if it bothers you that much then do something. You will have my support in it, but on this thread it seems to me your talking in a circle of contradiction




[edit on 26-5-2008 by birchtree]



posted on May, 26 2008 @ 11:54 PM
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Hmmm. The word, paradox, came to my mind earlier this afternoon. In all, the photo and this thread were allowed as lessons to each and everyone to choose a path wisely with the best possible effort to do ‘right’ things in life while still alive in this insane world.

It’s not why god couldn’t save the child. It’s why the child couldn’t save the man (the photographer) from himself, his failure to make the right choice, right then and there – by the saving of a life (the child) or rather ultimately saving his soul.

Wow, this is but my very quick but profound 2 cents regarding ‘testing of one’s faith’. (Now, I’ll duck, cover and hide from the onslaught of tomato being thrown in my general direction.)



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Here is some more information you seem to be neglecting:



# Secular charities that provide health or human services are more likely to report challenges in obtaining funding, with over two-thirds (70 percent) naming it as a major challenge.


Do you not think that things like this might play a major role in the survival of secular charities? It's much easier for religious charities to flourish than for secular ones to.

Here is a link to a site I think you should visit:

www.vexen.co.uk...



[edit on 5/27/2008 by bigbert81]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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OP,

I'm not a Christian. I'm a practicing Nichiren-Buddhist, so my view is different. I'm accutely aware that all beliefs (incl. Buddhism) are man-made systems. They are inadequate in explaining the Ultimate Reality, aka GOD. But here is what I believe makes sense in my own little world.

We believe in karma, cause & effect, reincarnation and the Mystic Law. We get many chances in multiple lifetimes to "get it right". Your "being" here on earth in your current situation is exactly where you need to be. It's not by accident that the child was in that situation, and it's not by accident that you (OP) were born under a different star. The question is what do we do and learn from it ...

Recently the CEO of a huge Swiss pharmaceutical company made sure that the cleaning crews' salaries were significantly cut. His own year-end bonus was about $20 million. How could you teach that man a lesson about greed?

Does it mean we shouldn't care about the needy, because it's their own karmic fault? Not at all. Compassion is essential for enlightenment!



spelling

[edit on 27-5-2008 by crestone]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


See, that's the problem I'm having. You are claiming that without the Bible and hopes of going to heaven, that people cannot determine what's good and bad. I take issue with that.


Bert your doing it again it is intellectually dishonest. I take issue with that. I challenge you quote me saying that.



People are able to know the difference between good and evil without needing a book to tell them.


Now we are getting somewhere. Bert you just proved my point.

So there is an absolute objective moral law then.

People just know that it is wrong to steal or murder. But why? Not because of a book Bert because of the moral law written on their hearts.

See you are misrepresenting me Bert. I said people do know right from wrong because there is an absolute moral law written into our consciences by our creator. Evolution says the opposite;

By Darwinian thought what ever helps you get a. and survive is all that matters. But if Darwinism is true then why do people feel guilty when they do something wrong - even when it is to there advantage?



And yes, you are right, there are more religiously run charities than not, but I believe that if we didn't have religion, and in the future, the ratio will be flipped. I believe that you are saying that religion is causing people to help, while I feel that that is only part of it in the current days. I think that if we did not have religion, there would still be many charitable organizations, and it appears that you would disagree.


Again this is easy all you have to do is look at countries without religion and you see the humanitarian nightmare that is called secular humanism in action.



If the world had less religion and more humanitarians, the world would be a better place with more charities than religious ones which are around for their own benefits of coming closer to God.


The point you keep missing is that the overwhelming majority of humanitarians of the world are religious people.

So use that reason you worship their bert. By the principal of occams razor the best solution is more religion not less.



Don't make the mistake of forgetting the work humanitarian atheists HAVE done in helping people. People like Norman Borlaug.

Here is a list of famous atheists. I'm sure you'll recognize some of them for the amazing work they've done:

www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org...


Never denied there were some. I just said they are the minority and I am right.



It seems in your posts that you are suggesting that Christians have a better chance at helping people and society, and as you'll see, I disagree.


It's not even a debatable item. By the sheer number of volunteers in third world countries Christians will help more people than secularists by an overwhelming majority. It's simple math.

What happened to reason?



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