To the deeply religious who feel god has made a change in their lives... answer this

Does anyone know about the SuperNova? We have a sense of urgency to
get a message back in time. Who can jump? Plz help... Dont worry the social aspects of why God did x...

What the heck, I'm bored enough to throw my 2 cents in this silly thread... I enjoy the bliss of not belonging to either side of the same divided-and-conquered coin: the endlessly tired old argument of absolute religion versus absolute atheism. The balance is that, very apparently, there are nonhuman BEINGS who are just BEINGS - enough like human BEINGS - but are not to be grovelled before and worshipped like mindless slaves (of religion) would do... Sorry I'm a bit cranky at the moment. Happy Memorial Day, America. Now please continue your worship of all things military and secretive (to whom it applies).

To the OP. Again I posted four compelling reasons reasons that explain your original question.

In addition, in my devotion this morning God revealed a verse for this this thread...

“He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away” (Rev. 21:4).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now back to the Humanism Debate

Originally posted by bigbert81

What, are you joking me?

You have this sick, twisted delusion that Christians are better people, and then use communist countries as your comparison?

No you created that delusion entirely on you own. It's called a strawman tactic - when you can't debate the real points you make just some up that you can address and pretend like that was my position. The arrogance is on your side of the fence and its unfounded.

First, I never ever said Christians were better people. You will find that genuine Christians admit they are sinners - not good people- and need a savior. It is secular humanists that claim they are better people and don't need one.

Second, I simply pointed out the FACT that the vast majority of charity organizations are indeed religious in nature. That's all I said you are the one inferring that makes us better people. I never said that.

For instance, my 70 year old mother will be in Zimbabwe caring for children in 2 months through our church. I have volunteered and fed the hungry myself. So God is doing something about it through his church. What are you doing besides accusing God?

Go back and read my Wiki link. Or perhaps I should spout some of the things your religion is responsible for, which you seem to be completely ignorant to.

I know what exactly humanism is, apparently much better than you do. It's an evil philosophy. It completely undermines morality. By the doctrines of humanism there is no difference between Adolf Hitler and Mother Theresa.

You're assuming that without Christianity, there wouldn't be charities helping people, and we'd turn communist? What a joke. And if you'd read my posts, I'm saying that the world would be better with more humanists, not just atheists, but then why listen to me, you are Christian, so therefore better than me, correct?]

No I am assuming nothing - that's all you. I am going by the historical record. All countries that adopt a secular humanist system are communist. That what communism is. Read Karl Marx sometime.

Hmmm, a secular humanist society, actually sounds great, if you would read the link I posted and understand what that's all about.

Don't you know the Soviet Union was described as the workers paradise? That description amounts to nothing more than a new age bedtime story for atheists dreamers. History tells the true tale of secular humanism in the fact of 100 million murdered human beings.

Dead "human"ism...

reply to post by AlexG141989


BY ALEXG141989
"blueracer... im not blaming god that this kid died, if its anyones fault its the photographers... im trying to make a point to the religious folk who say god helps them and whatnot... i dont feel like repeating myself so just re-read my first post in the thread"

Blaming God is exactly what you are doing!


BY ALEXG141989
" Can you please give me a reasonas to why God couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child"

It looks to me by the picture that God did place someone in that childs presence that could of helped him, I know there are many other children like this all over the world

To awnser your question from my point of view, there are really two things going on here:

1. You are using this picture to attack peoples faith, that God has come into their lives and changed them. Shame on you, is your life that miserable. Who is to say, if not that person, that they have felt their lives have changed and further I think you might not even totally understand what people like that are saying; they are saying by following Gods word that there lives have changed, that by giving into following the word, their live are different. Whats wrong with that.
Why would you want to attack someone for feeling better about who they are as a person, and they should be able to give credit to whoever they want to on any level. What is it to you. If they feel by living right that God is blessing them and helping bring good things and events into their life...so be it, who cares.
If any thing you should say more power to them, and be happy for them instead of attacking them. Hey I dont get vegetarians, but if that is what makes them happy, great it saves a flatiron steak for me somewhere.

2. I am certain no one could blame the child for the plight of the world, but we can certainly all blame each other. According to the Word of God people have free will and those choices with in that free will dictate the outcome of our lives and the World.
All we have to do is look around, you do not have to believe in God to walk around and see trash, pollution, famine and the spread of disease, which most of us at some level have not only caused but are perpetuating in our daily lives. All of us. I am guilty, we all are to some extent.
We have the ability to help but yet we dont,. That picture of the child is an ominous sign of how cruel this world is, but as far as I am concerned we have taken the world and hosed it up not God!





[edit on 26-5-2008 by birchtree]

[edit on 26-5-2008 by birchtree]

[edit on 26-5-2008 by birchtree]

Originally posted by birchtree
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

BY ALEXG141989
"blueracer... im not blaming god that this kid died, if its anyones fault its the photographers... im trying to make a point to the religious folk who say god helps them and whatnot... i dont feel like repeating myself so just re-read my first post in the thread"

Blaming God is exactly what you are doing!


BY ALEXG141989
" Can you please give me a reasonas to why God couldnt take the time out of his omnipresent day to help this child"

It looks to me by the picture that God did place someone in that childs presence that could of helped him, I know there are many other children like this all over the world

To awnser your question from my point of view, there are really two things going on here:

1. You are using this picture to attack peoples faith, that God has come into their lives and changed them. Shame on you, is your life that miserable. Who is to say, if not that person, that they have felt their lives have changed and further I think you might not even totally understand what people like that are saying; they are saying by following Gods word that there lives have changed, that by giving into following the word, their live are different. Whats wrong with that.
Why would you want to attack someone for feeling better about who they are as a person, and they should be able to give credit to whoever they want to on any level. What is it to you. If they feel by living right that God is blessing them and helping bring good things and events into their life...so be it, who cares.
If any thing you should say more power to them, and be happy for them instead of attacking them. Hey I dont get vegetarians, but if that is what makes them happy, great it saves a flatiron steak for me somewhere.

It looks to me by the picture that God did place someone in that childs presence that could of helped him, I know there are many other children like this all over the world

well couldnt god with his all mightyness have placed someone that was up to the task??? to me it looks more like this photographer came across a dying kid and decided it would make a nice picture...

and are u really accusing me of using this picture to attack your faith??? i dont really give a damn what anybody believes in (no matter how primitive the belief may be)... i was using this pic as an example...

I think you might not even totally understand what people like that are saying; they are saying by following Gods word that there lives have changed, that by giving into following the word, their live are different. Whats wrong with that.

oh i do understand... somebody earlier gave an example of god intervening to help somebody

he said something along the lines of "we were in our car going to church, along the way we saw a lady walking... we stopped to ask if she needed a ride, she said she was on her way to church as well... and she told me that before we stopped to ask her for a ride, she prayed to god that she wouldnt have to walk all the way, and not even five minutes later we appeared..."

its little trivial things like that, that get me about god.... if he had the time to have those guys appear so that she didnt have to walk, why cant he stop the bad things in third world countries???

is it possible that kid is being punished?could being born in a third world country be a hellish manifestation?being slaughtered raped and totured and starved by others from there own land by "unhuman like " soilders(demonic souls)is this gods way of showing a hell created by humans is horrible.but satans wich has no restrictions(i.e)(death or being saved by us)can never be reversed?
being born then punised with no explination is a horrible thing but maybe this is gods second chance for their souls...maybe he wants the goodness in man to save ourselves if you want to get to your heven you must save our brothers from hell.the good change in the world will come from thoes who value family and love for each other they will be the ritious army we need. people who are not tempted by need for usless crap that we spend our lives accumalating and worshiping(money/possesions).true happyness comes for the undoubted love for each other and the all to precious freedom to live free and together.thoes who truly have experienced hell will fight harddest to experience heven.if your god loves you as much as you claim.then this would be a great gift a second chance for them and a chance for us to prove we are not all lost .though we live and prospher in this most sinful of ages.show each other your love. they will return the feeling.i think when we all love each other as much as our own flesh we will know what gods true love feels like.go out of your way to help a fallen stranger and they wont feel alone let your kindness touch their heart they will carry that feeling and express it to others thus starting a chain reaction through out the world and our problems wont seem so hopeless.maybe god wants us to save ourselves with only a few words from his divine wisdom given to us so long ago that it has been all but forgotten by the masses. free will may have been given to us so that we may prove to satan ourselves that in the end we will always carry god in our hearts and souls thus proving his point that his children will always come around in the end.

there isn't much reason for free will if god has to save us every 5 minutes when we are capable of saving ourselves. wake up! these may be our brothers from times past who unknowingly strayed ever so slightly (like many of us do everyday no matter how trivial)because of the times.

IM NOT RELIGIOUS I HAVE NEVER FULLY READ A RELIGIOUS TEXT SO I DONT "ROOT" FOR ANY GOD BUT LOVE IS SOMETHING I THINK EVERYONE CAN FEEL AND IF THATS GOD THEN PRAISE HIM!! FOR OVER TIME THE FEELING OF LOVE CANNOT BE CHANGED UNLIKE OLD BOOKS AND WHAT NOT. I BELIEVE THE LOVE FOR EACH OTHER IS WHAT WE NEED TO GUIDE OURSELVES THROUGH THESE TESTING TIMES.
IM SORRY IF I OFFEND BY ASSUMING WHAT GOD WANTS ITS JUST THE WAY THIS CAME OUT AS I WRITE IT.
HOPEFULLY THIS POINT WILL INSPIRE SOMEONE ELSE TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND WRITE TO INSPIRE A FEW MORE AND SO ON.
I THINK WHEN WE ALL SHARE THE SAME UNCONDITIONAL LOVE FOR EACHOTHER GODS POINT TO SATAN WILL HAVE BEEN PROVEN.HIS LOVE THAT WE CARRY WILL ALWAYS OUT SHINE THE DECEPTION.

LETS SAVE THOES POOR SOULS ALL THEY KNOW IS SORROW SHOW THEM A LITTLE LIGHT AND IT MAY MAGNIFY FAR BEYOND OURS.SHOW THEM A SECOND CHANCE AT A LOVED EXISTANCE.

i have a feeling im gonna get bashed for this post but so what im trying to find our common ground to lay a foundation for a new age.



COME ON ...LOVE THY NEIGHBOR? if its your religion could it be more clear what is trying to be said?look to the most simple of writings rather than the larger more vauge ones.

my words are water to HELP wash away deception

Originally posted by AlexG141989
i hate that freakin copout... in all the forums i posted this the religious tell me maybe god put ME to help the child... how am i going to help??? sure i could donate some money and save a few kids... but what about the millions and millions upon millions that wont get the help??? and your going to counter with "maybe god put other people to help those kids" well again what about the millions and millions of OTHER kids that wont get the help??? it goes on and on dude and YOUR god doesn't seem to care

You presume many things don't you. First you presume that i am a "dude" i'm not i'm a "dudette". Then you presume what i'm going to "counter with" maybe i'm not going to "counter with anything, maybe i'm just trying to have a conversation with you, or voice my opinion. Then you presume to know who "my' God is.


See the fact of the matter is that you are asking the wrong people. You are asking people to explain to you why God doesn't do something. We can't give you the answer to your questions. I can't tell you why anybody other myself does or doesn't do something. Can you tell me why your nieghbor does or doesn't do something ?


You're asking people to try and understand a diety's actions. Asking them to presume to understand why a diety does something, lets certain things happen. We can't answer you, because the truth of it is we don't know. You may have people that will answer you and tell you they have the answer, but they don't. Only God can answer you.


So no i'm not giving you a cop out, or countering you with anything. I am telling you that i don't know the answer to your question. I can't answer for God, because i am not God.


If you really want to know the answer, then clear your head, open your mind and ask God. If he wants you to know, then he'll tell you. If he doesn't want you to know then you never will, because no one can give the answers besides him.


What i was saying to you in my previous post was if you are really bothered by the situation, if you really care, then stop wasting time and energy complaining, pointing fingers & questioning. Do something about it !


You talk about cop outs, who's copping out ? You say how can i help ? Sure maybe i can donate some money, and save a few kids, but what about the millions & millions of other kids ? That's a cop out, you are the one copping out!


What the few that you could save don't count, they don't deserve help because you couldn't save them all ? Even if you can only save one, then that's one child that was spared. Maybe the child that you help save will grow up and put an end to famine, maybe he won't, but at least he'll be alive.


Do yourself a favor stop asking questions that no one can answer, stop pointing fingers, get off your high horse and look in the mirror because ultimitely, in the end that's all we can answer for is the image we see in the morror.

reply to post by AlexG141989


God does not interfere with freewill, which is what every human being is born with. Freewill allows the individual to live life without interference from God. Nobody said life is fair, but maybe you should ask yourself how much faster will this child go to heaven because he or she has already done their time in hell!

There is a very real war between good and evil. Leaders are either benevolent or malevolent. You are either with the good side or with the bad side.

Unfortunately, Most, if not all of the leaders of the world bow to Mammon and it is why this child died. Politicians do not think about people, they think about money.

Because God believes in free will and God is not circus monkey that performs tricks. If God did all of this, then there would be no requirement for faith.

I used to like ATS but after reading 6 pages and seeing brand new members post really dumb, ignorant and thoughtless posts in reponse to a question from the soul.. Aargh.. It's just hard to swallow. sigh.
If you are new and reading this, think about your answers and be concise.. Please.... for the love of god!

------God and why doesn't he help one fat country vs a famine filled country-------

Well duh.. God isn't real as Christians or whomever else teaches it from a religious viewpoint.
God is the alpha and omega..meaning he is dirt, the ant, people etc..

If you have to ask yourself this question and a religious battle has ensued, I think you missed what god is completely. Granted, I don't know what god is completely as well. But I feel I have a better view of it.

God helps those who seek good in their life. But helps implies god is granting that good from a religious perspective.
Wrong.
As god's image, just as everything else is an image of god, the person looking for and practicing good changed their own life.

Only after the entire human race realizes this on the micro level will issues ,like famine on one side of the globe compared to fat-butts on the other side of the globe, be stopped.

If man could get off religion, get back in tune with nature while also staying intimate with technology we might have a chance.
If everyone could realize that those people on the other side of the Earth are actually a fungus on you, me, and everything else as a whole, then not only would we start to solve that problem just as a doctor would put ointment on a rash, we would solve a helluva lot more problems as well.

To me, the answer to the op is:
Because god is everything and as a whole we are destroying everything. When people realize that WE are god then we UNDERSTAND that we NEED to fix it to progress as a race and ALSO as part of this earth instead of being satisfied while seemingly separated.

-------------------

This is a campfire type discussion.. unless you have nothing else to do than bicker here then you will never get it because it's got to strike a chord deep within.


b

reply to post by Bspiracy


AMEN to that

Why cant everybody see that? God is you. ME is WE.. we are all one and ALL is GOD. That is the whole underlying point to my last bunch of crap posted.

reply to post by bigbert81


God doesn't make these things happen, men do. Men give Satan control over their lives more and more as they disinvite God from their personal lives, society, and institutions, etc. You need to read the bible and interpretations by real scholars. If you did that, I think you'd be astounded at how ignorant you are.

( Gee, I wonder if the conscienceless photographer who took the picture of the vulture near that kid helped the kid? Ya think? Or maybe the photo was more important to ferment discontent than the child's life?)

I'm amazed at how people turn their backs on Jesus, insult Him and yet expect him to save their asses when they hit rock bottom. You tempt Him and expect good results?

See page 323, last paragraph, of "Soul Harvest - The World Takes Sides" by Tim LaHaye just for a tid bit - in fact read the Left Behind series. In any case read something about the entities you claim to know so well.

You want Satan in charge, this is what he does.

i skimmed through the first page of posts, and the question the OP asked was not answered so i stopped reading. Yes, that poor child got screwed over pretty good in life, and that photog is a piece of dirt.

However, while God is omnipotent, he is not omnipresent. There is one law that even He cannot overcome: the Universal Law of Consequence.

Things happen due to causation, and we cannot stop them from happening. This is the great lesson for man: create positive effect via righteous causation. You cannot do this with greed.

We are here for a reason. I, personally, believe it is to perfect our piece of our Creator (our soul) so that it may one day return to Him. Regardless of why we are here, it is a path we must walk for better or worse. In the case of this child, it was for worse. But rest assured that whatever he was here to do/learn, it was likely done.

Don't be angry at God. He cannot intervene. Be angry at man who fails to learn the most obvious lesson: righteous acts yield positive results. Negative acts yield negative results. Doesn't seem so hard, now does it?

With this knowledge, Jesus stated "render unto Caesar what is Caesar, and render unto God that which is God's".

God has put the world in man's hands until He returns with His invasion.
If you want to know all the whys and wherefores of that. Then you need to sincerely start learning all about Christian theology.
The world is getting worse (politically). About the best it every got was when partially Christian nations colonized the poor countries. Bringing some semblance of law and order and civility. Since then it has been all down hill for mankind's establishments. The further they get from God. The worse it gets.. Remember I said (partially) Christian nations. As they still had alot of influence from Non Christian leaders and citizens. Even if they had been mostly Christian. Even Christians must resist temptation and the influence of Satan.
I don't believe you would even had ask such a question, if you had ever really seriously and sincerely sought the truth!

My own answer to the original OP (and I agree with the premise), is that which we call God is just the "ground of being" (Jung). It is a life force and energy from which creation and evolution emerges.

"IT" is neither moral nor immoral, but is instead "amoral." We humans reflexively anthropomorphize God to be human, and IT is not! God creates humans and also creates the viruses who devour humans. Have you ever heard of the Guinea worm? It is a horrible parasitic worm whose host is uniquely human. God as the "ground of being" is the creative potential of which life (including we humans) can either etch morality/immorality, life/death, light/darkness, etc. Morality and meaning are up to us! There is no "personal God." It is an oxymoron and a human psychic projection.

[edit on 26-5-2008 by whatsup]

reply to post by AlexG141989


If you feel bad about this and ask why God didn't help him, ask yourself why you didn't help him?

Any excuse is unexcusable. The governments do not want them to survive because they rather the color people be out of the gene pool and people that are not ran by there governments do not listen to their rules. They then can not be controlled by them.

first of all, the main question of this thread is a bit odd, because anyone other than an atheist would see that your concept of god, which takes life away, is the same god that makes that life available in the first place. Sort of an oxymoron, no?

Why can't (your concept of) god help people that are suffering? The only answer that you can take as truth from anyone other than yourself should be "I don't know."

originally posted by AlexG141989

i hate that freakin copout... in all the forums i posted this the religious tell me maybe god put ME to help the child... how am i going to help???

You are the one who brought it up Aklex. Why are you now copping out? Was all your concern and disgust just an act then? Surely you weren't just trying to bait believers were you ? Because I believe better about you Alex, I prepared a little tutorial for you.

Believe me God is serious about this Alex. And remember you brought it up. Here there is a summer internship available in Africa right now.

Spend your summer in Africa

Instructions:Becoming a Missionary Difficulty: Challenging

Step1: Determine what missionary organization you want to join and what country you'd like to work in. Different organizations deploy missionaries in different parts of the world.

Step2: Meet the qualifications. Most organizations require prospective missionaries to be devout members of their congregations, sign a statement of faith agreement, have a degree or some course work in religious studies, have religious ministry experience and boast the servant spirit.

Step3: Contact your local church missions committee and tell them you want to become a missionary. The committee will then refer you to the correct organization.

Step4: Fill out an application. Usually it is lengthy and requires items such as references, a credit check, theology assessment, letter of faith, cross-cultural assessment and psychological appraisal.

Step5: Sign up for a missionary internship and a preparatory course after the approval of your application. These activities will help you fill any gaps in your religious education.

Step6: Participate in the pre-field missionary training exercise and orientation. Language acquisition and cross-cultural studies are the focus.

Step7: Undergo a medical exam. This is to ensure you are healthy enough to travel overseas. Upon successful completion of your exam, you should receive the credentials and documentation necessary to become a missionary.

How to prepare to become a missionary

Four steps to becoming a missionary