What makes our modern God different than the gods of ancient civilizations???

This whole idea of believing in gods is just so primitive and stupid if you really think about it...what makes our modern god any different than the gods that the ancient civilizations believed in???....what makes our modern god real and theirs fake.... modern religious people dont have anything to base their claims on except faith and thats exactly what all the ancient civilizations had to base their beliefs on....

I dont mean to offend any of the religious but it just doesnt make sence to me....Albert Einstine, one of the greatest minds in the history man...even he couldnt comprehend why such large masses of people would believe in such things...he believed religion and the bible stories to be "childish." (i know its just his opinion, so dont bring that up)

So what makes our modern god real and others gods false???

What makes modern gods better than the older ones? It's simple, the powers that be threaten people into leaving their believes in favor of the new ones.
The Salem witch trials and the Burning Times are a good example of this.

That's all I can add at this time. I've only had one cup of coffee so far today.

the question was what makes our modern god more "real" than the gods of ancient civilizations???

Personally, I'm waiting for Zeus to come back and fix everything.

Because human problems can't be solved by human beings =P

Originally posted by AlexG141989


This whole idea of believing in gods is just so primitive and stupid if you really think about it...

Nah, I would say that believing in a universe without cause is primitive and stupid (since this is the origins & creationism forum).

what makes our modern god any different than the gods that the ancient civilizations believed in???....what makes our modern god real and theirs fake.... modern religious people dont have anything to base their claims on except faith and thats exactly what all the ancient civilizations had to base their beliefs on....

For one thing, none of the mythological gods make sense with modern knowledge. God doesn't need to live on a mountain. The sun isn't pulled by a chariot, and it will rise irregardless of human sacrifice.

Originally posted by Alcove
For one thing, none of the mythological gods make sense with modern knowledge. God doesn't need to live on a mountain. The sun isn't pulled by a chariot, and it will rise irregardless of human sacrifice.

And the exact same can be said for the Abrahamic god.

To quote Carl Sagan:

The major religions on the Earth contradict each other left and right. You can't all be correct. And what if all of you are wrong? It's a possibility, you know. You must care about the truth, right? Well, the way to winnow through all the differing contentions is to be skeptical. I'm not any more skeptical about your religious beliefs than I am about every new scientific idea I hear about. But in my line of work, they're called hypotheses, not inspiration and not revelation.

... or ...

What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job

... or, this gem he said to a Christian:

Anything you don't understand ... you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it.

So, Alcove, can you please explain to us what seperates your god from, say, Zeus or Poseidon? Or maybe Ra or Horus? Anything?

Originally posted by Alcove
Nah, I would say that believing in a universe without cause is primitive and stupid (since this is the origins & creationism forum).

I think it is important to make the distinction between a universe without a cause and a universe without a diety.

Think about it; without a judicious diety to preside over existance, everyone (not just humans) would be free to choose their own purpose and follow it without worry of divine consequence. Every action would amout to plain cause and effect, worldly or otherwise.

Buddhism is a good example of a philosophy without a concept of god yet with a concept of purpose.

Religion could be thought of as a crutch. Some people need it to keep moving, sometimes it's just used to sort of fill in cracks, or a varnish to people who are good and decent.
Others it's a foundation they build from, or a steel beam to brace themselves on.
Some people don't need religion as we think of it as, maybe they rely on science or mysticism (a little different than organised religion, to me at least) or whatever.
The problem comes when they rely on it to much, or let it define them.
Are their people that twist it to their own ends? Yes, obviously. There always have been, and no doubt there always will be. That's why you need to think for yourself, and make your own decisions.
As for why the old Gods aren't worth as much as the relativly new ones, well. I dunno. I still yell at Poseidon when I'm trying to catch a wave. Personally, I think it's jus tbelief. I believe my God's better, she believes hers his, they think theirs is, that sort of thing.

You'd think it'd be harder to convince people who were ACTUALLY around back then...but.. I guess you can just write them off as being stupid...

Originally posted by dave420

And the exact same can be said for the Abrahamic god.

To quote Carl Sagan:

(snip long quote)

I was talking about God not organized religion... Quite often, the people who are the most religious are the most immoral.

... or ...

What I'm saying is, if God wanted to send us a message, and ancient writings were the only way he could think of doing it, he could have done a better job

Then what ways do you or Sagan suggest?

... or, this gem he said to a Christian:

Anything you don't understand ... you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it.

Yes, people do that a lot. But believing in God doesn't mean you shouldn't do any thinking. Here's Proverbs 15:2:
"The tongue of the righteous commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly."

So, Alcove, can you please explain to us what seperates your god from, say, Zeus or Poseidon? Or maybe Ra or Horus? Anything?

Well, have you read the Bible? It doesn't have many similarities to mythology. Mythological beliefs and some religious beliefs can be used to control people, but actual biblical Christianity can't.

What makes "today's God" different from ancient gods? First of all, I wouldn't necessarily say the Judeo-Christian God is a 'modern God' since Judaism (the oldest Abrahamic faith) dates back to ancient times. And since I am a Christian, that is the God I will be defending for obvious reasons.

Some people are already bringing up the comparisons of Zeus, Poseidon, Ra, and Horus. The easiest difference between such figures and Jesus is that I do not know of any 'eye witnesses' that recorded the actions of these figures. However, there are eye witness accounts of people who met and knew Jesus. He was a true historical figure while the others were mythological figures.

And just to preempt some arguments:

But Jesus didn't exist! Yes He did.
But Jesus was a pagan copycat so He is no different from other gods! False.
Ok, so He might have existed but He was a poser. No. He was the real deal.
But Jesus never claimed to be God! Think again.

Etc., etc.

Here is another reason why God trumps them all:

See, the former things have taken place and new things I declare. Before they spring into being I announce them to you."

Isaiah 42:9

And:

Therefore I told you these things long ago. Before they happened I announced them to you so that you could not say, 'My idols did them, my wooden image and metal god ordained them.'

Isaiah 48:5

That sums it up nicely as well. God tells us He will validate Himself to us by revealing His plan for the world via prophecy and we will know He is the real deal when it comes to pass. We have the messianic prophecies, historical prophecies, and prophecies being fulfilled in our time that validates the Bible and God as truth.

This comment is the cliff notes version, of course.

So the next time a Christian hears the tired argument about Zeus, Ra, or Quetzalcoatl deserving as much merit as Jesus, they'll know there are some major differences between them and Jesus/God.

***Edited for major typos. I need some coffee.

[edit on 5/27/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AlexG141989

This whole idea of believing in gods is just so primitive and stupid if you really think about it...what makes our modern god any different than the gods that the ancient civilizations believed in???

There has only ever been one God. The rest were dim forgeries of the original one and only creator. He always was and has always been very very real and he has never changed one tiny bit. His character has remained absolutely constant. He is infinite wisdom, infinite justice and infinite mercy.

Considering the overwhelming amount of eyewitness testimony, testimonials of believers whose lives have been changed, The Moral Law, the historical and scientific evidence. It takes a heck of lot more faith to be an atheist.

Here is some compelling evidence to consider:



The Moral Law

Cosmological Proof of God

Plus on purely material basis its so so stupid and fool hardy to bet eternity to win nothing. If you are wrong you lose for eternity - if you are right you win getting eaten by worms. In my view, it takes a downright moron to accept that bet.

Atheism is a suckers bet - the devil is slick I must admit.

....what makes our modern god real and theirs fake.... modern religious people dont have anything to base their claims on except faith and thats exactly what all the ancient civilizations had to base their beliefs on....

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Hebrews 13:8

We have a lot more evidence for our faith in God than you do for faith in nothingness. Science doesn't explain life or morality or human consciousness.

It can not even answer the questions of a small child. "Who am I?" "Why am I here?" Religion does.

God has never changed. Only peoples perceptions have.

I dont mean to offend any of the religious but it just doesnt make sence to me....Albert Einstine, one of the greatest minds in the history man...even he couldnt comprehend why such large masses of people would believe in such things...he believed religion and the bible stories to be "childish." (i know its just his opinion, so dont bring that up)

By the way Alex you just called Einstein primitive and stupid.

This whole idea of believing in gods is just so primitive and stupid

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

Also Einstein did not approve of dragging his name into the cesspool of atheism...

In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views.(The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 214)

What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos. (Albert Einstein to Joseph Lewis, Apr. 18, 1953)

I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p.202)

poor atheists




[edit on 5/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by AlexG141989


The answer for why todays God is more real than the ancient gods is simple. It was made so by force of politics. Control, power.

The reason 1 God is approved over Many is also simple. Simplisity.

It is easier to control one by saying "There is only one God and if you disobey you will be punished".

After all, if you adore Loki (the god of trickery) then you may well feel he'll protect you is you pull a prank on a follower of, say, the god of Merchants. Now there is conflict. You have disobey one, but obey another... which one wins? Are you punished, or rewarded?

There once was a True Religion. It was lost long ago. I'm fairly sure how it happened, with no book to tell me and no whisper from above.

One man was given instruction divine. He spread this word, and many listend. They revered him, for he could make life better for all with this knowledge.

Another man saw how this man was adored and treated, and wanted the same. He heard the man's words and found things that could be more appealling, winning people to him. He countered the words of this man, claiming that the first was wrong and only he is right. He won followers who revered him.

Some time later, resources and land became less. Greed took hold and one tribe tried to destroy the other (as was told that god proclaimed to do). Some agreed, some rejected. The rejectors made a new branch, and so on and so on.

Religions grew, tribes warred.

Thus, man has Religion, but lost God.

Apologies for the large image but you can't read the text if its scaled down:

i41.photobucket.com...

[edit on 27-5-2008 by ianr5741]

reply to post by ianr5741


A Darwinist explains the origins of the universe and life...

Just because science doesn't have an explanation for a phenomenon doesn't mean it can be automatically substituted with a supernatural reason. There is an explanation; it just hasn't been found yet.

The empire of religion is the constantly-retreating territory suffering the expansion of the fields of science. God always lies beyond what we can explain, but his territory is getting smaller.

But never do you hear the religious apologize for believing "god did it" when we find its actually due to natural causes in a scientifically understood natural world.


The funny thing is that I believe in God, but I also believe his creation can be understood to almost no end. It's all God's work. But god is in the process - the flux, not the static material.

As the universe changes and evolves, you see the thoughts of god's mind. He doesn't dictate and choose events. They are all the natural result of the parameters of the situation. His acts are not individual interventions, prejudices, and miracles. The whole thing is a perfect act and miracle, even when our tiny little minds see flaws, they flow into a greater whole with reason and purpose and majesty.


The argument of science vs religion is silly. They are one and the same. It's our myopia that confuses us.




[edit on 28-5-2008 by ianr5741]

There has only ever been one God. The rest were dim forgeries of the original one and only creator. He always was and has always been very very real and he has never changed one tiny bit. His character has remained absolutely constant. He is infinite wisdom, infinite justice and infinite mercy.

no.... because first people would had to have known about the ONE and ONLY god to be able to make a forgery of him... people didnt know about your god until whatever religion you subscribe to came into being... that alone should disprove god imo

By the way Alex you just called Einstein primitive and stupid.

umm no i didnt

It can not even answer the questions of a small child. "Who am I?" "Why am I here?" Religion does.

no it really doesn't... its like a kid asking who brought me these presents, and the parents saying santa claus... the kid, being a kid of course is going to believe it until he matures...

Also Einstein did not approve of dragging his name into the cesspool of atheism...

yeah well it just so happens that i am not an atheist... im more of an agnostic... but i (like Albert Einstine) believe the bible and its stories to be "pretty childish"... i believe there has to be something out there... because common sence tells me that something cannot come from nothing... however the difference between me and the religious is i dont attach myself to any stupid beliefs written by primitive people, in a primitive era... where anything out of the norm of the time was seen as magic or a gods doing... i cant do that... common sence prevents me from it...

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by ianr5741

 

A Darwinist explains the origins of the universe and life...

So, because the universe hasn't been completely figured out yet (we’ve only had the technology to put our theories to the test in the last 50 years) you point to a supernatural means that has even less supporting evidence then the theory you’re mocking….. Bigwhammy if only I could make as much sense as you…..

reply to post by Bigwhammy


As opposed to creationists:



The only difference is science is still looking for what caused the "poof", and how it works. Creationists are happy with being ignorant.

reply to post by AlexG141989



the contemporary God is believed to be a Trinity.

*one of the trinity God remained in his abode called the throne of heaven
*one of the trinity became a mortal flesh person, then transfigured after death
*the 3rd & last of the trinity arrived 40 days after after the 2nd trinity (Jesus) was resurrected... and that event was the promised (yet unrecognized) 2nd coming of the Christian prophecies