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Just Who is Posting on ATS?

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posted on May, 25 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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As a result of a recent thread (discussing cracks in the Arctic ice as evidence of global warming) I have come to the conclusion there is a suspicious number of posters churning out pro-major industry/corporation propaganda.

Not surprising you might say - this site is open to all. Nevertheless I reckon it's time to expose this as a serious issue. While it is easy to assume people are debating and listening to each other in good faith there is evidence of input reflecting entirely agenda-based positions.

I am not anti-capitalist. I have no qualms with productive industry and business. But I have a distinct aversion to the formulation and presentation of "evidence" on the back of money from vested interests. Evidence that points away from the backer's agenda has a tendency to be ignored and uncomfortable conclusions avoided. Whatever evidence can be made to fit the agenda is published and pushed via publicity, advertising and lobbying.

Anybody else concerned this is happening on ATS?

How widespread do you think it is?

What can be done to expose and challenge the perpetrators?

Do you think it matters?




posted on May, 25 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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On this note I feel one of the great qualities of ATS is the fact that people can post what they feel is important to them regardless of what their viewpoint should be. It's up to us as the members to look at that information and take it for what we can. The bottom line in all reality is that everyone on this planet has an agenda whether hidden or not and if they want to express it they can. I'd much rather sift through whatever pro-major industry/corporation propaganda that people post and see it for what it really is rather than not. Id rather read this stuff than the hollow earth threads or the reptilians raped my dog threads.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 08:27 AM
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I don't really know what to think about whether or not there are disinfo-agents on ATS but these other threads seem to indicate that something odd is happening indeed. Thoughts anyone?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed elsewhere.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 08:59 AM
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Well i think problem is that some people just don't want to see facts. They don't want to or are they part of system? As with global warming i must say i was really surprised noone replied to my thread about skepticism being run by oil companies. Where there were proves and names of authors and organisaations to be paid to create doubt.

I am here just 5 days and i don't know most of you but i can tell that some of you are so blinded that if proves would be on the table you would ignore them. Of course there would be people who would attack them first and then pull the others.

Example for it is Nibiru thread. Author of few videos came clean and said he made videos on his computer and send them on youtube and that none of them are truth. He made 200000 hits and lots of people subscribed to him What happened? First came information that youtube account was hacked. After that he was pushed by governments to do it. When he sent pictures from which he mades videos and where it was clearly seen that they are not real. He was forced to make special conffesions and well he was crucified.

People should use their judgment and logic first then comes religion. It doesn't help to believe something by ignoring facts.

About people on ATS being here to hide the truth. It depends how much are you taken serious. I mean if governments would see ATS as dangerous of course here would be agents. Some could do it just for fun. I guess it depends from subject to subject.

As I said with global warming there is agenda to create doubt and as long gas prices are rising and profits are bigger and bigger. It won't stop. It's all hiding behind economy (profits). It's up to you if you succed to oversee it or not.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by ShAuNmAn-X
 


Great response.

The problem is that these people are using a subtle approach, even underhand. Masquerading as open-minded participants they muddy the waters where the real evidence is crystal clear.

It makes no difference what the topic is, these people should be outed. Maybe on our profile page we should have a category for 'Participants I believe have a hidden agenda' with space for a few words concerning what we think they are about. The stats people could then produce a page showing what percentage of overall/active participants are suspected of subterfuge. You could even have a list of set categories that could be selected instead of choosing your own description of the miscriants - that way the stats page could categorise the whole phenomenon.

What do you reckon mods? Maybe you could let your hair down and join in with this one for once.



reply to post by Kupios
 


Thanks for the input. Very interesting to hear others are picking up on this. And thanks for backing up what you are saying with evidence!

The more people share their views the more likely we are to gain a fair impression of what is happening across the boards.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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I think that anyone who proposes to know one way or the other, that "global warming" or "Climate Change" is occurring and is a direct result of anything that humans are doing, is full of crapola.

For every scientist or study that shows it is a direct result of humans and our pollution etc, there is one that shows that it's not and that the world is not heating up it's cooling. How can both of these things be right? Obviously they can't. But which studies and scientists CAN you believe?

What people forget to look at is the money funding these studies and volumes and volumes of data. Behind every "study" there's a source of funding.

Remember the gigantic hole in the ozone that was reported on endlessly with dire prognostications all through the 70's and 80's about people in countries "directly affected by this gigantic gaping hole getting %300 more cases of melanoma and other skin cancers and yada yada yada due to the fluorocarbons eating away at the atmosphere?

Here's a GREAT example of exactly how these announcements and studies have an effect on government policy: Read this and tell me that behind every "global warming" scare these days there isn't a financial motive behind the scare tactics!


The full extent of the damage that CFCs have caused to the ozone layer is not known and will not be known for decades; however, marked decreases in column ozone have already been observed (as explained above)

That same year, the discovery of the Antarctic ozone hole was announced, causing a revival in public attention to the issue. In 1987, representatives from 43 nations signed the Montreal Protocol. Meanwhile, the halocarbon industry shifted its position and started supporting a protocol to limit CFC production.

The reasons for this were in part explained by "Dr. Mostafa Tolba, former head of the UN Environment Programme, who was quoted in the June 30, 1990 edition of The New Scientist, '...the chemical industry supported the Montreal Protocol in 1987 because it set up a worldwide schedule for phasing out CFCs, which [were] no longer protected by patents. This provided companies with an equal opportunity to market new, more profitable compounds.'"[27]


en.wikipedia.org...

There's no telling how much cash the "chemical industry" threw into these studies behind the scenes to get the CFC's banned so that they could "market new, profitable compounds."

My point is, I am not in any way "pro-major industry" but I have a brain, and I can look behind these studies, both pro and con on "global warming" and follow the money trail. Both sides have high stakes in how the world as a whole reacts to them. The pro - major industry side wants business as usual and the whole "green movement" is a major business in itself funding other huge corporations and industries that will profit if we rush out to become "green." Where there is the potential loss or gain of billions upon billions of dollars, the truth will be damned, and the facts skewed on EITHER side.

And anyone who thinks that either side gives a damn about "global warming" is fooling themselves IMO. It's all about the cash either way.




[edit on 25-5-2008 by LateApexer313]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by Locus Iste
I am here just 5 days and i don't know most of you but i can tell that some of you are so blinded that if proves would be on the table you would ignore them. Of course there would be people who would attack them first and then pull the others.
As I said with global warming there is agenda to create doubt and as long gas prices are rising and profits are bigger and bigger. It won't stop. It's all hiding behind economy (profits). It's up to you if you succed to oversee it or not.


being here only five days ill give you the benfit of the doubt. howerver these statments you have made are in fact just your oppinions there is not solid prof of global warming. that however is not the topic.

so what if some people are pro-industry. some are christian some are muslim, some black some white, some skinny some fat and some are a mix of everything. its what makes us people and its what makes the world go round. if you dont like it you are free and welcome to leave.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by LateApexer313
 


Funnily enough I think that was a good, well-argued post, LA.

Any evidence can potentially be agenda-based or influenced - including what the eco lobby presents. I could argue that it's the boys with the mega cash we need to be most wary of, but that is not the intention here. The question is, is the integrity of ATS suffering from an influx of hidden-agenda merchants, and if so, what are we going to do about it?

Do you see this as a pivotal issue, as I am beginning to?



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by DaleGribble
 


You are absolutely right on this. However what concerns me is that it is emerging that there may be a concerted effort from certain quarters to spread disinformation or deny good evidence (in relation to whatever cause) because such people are more interested in the outcome than the truth of a matter.

Where contributors have serious vested interests they ought to declare them in their avatar somehow. If they were honest enough to do that we would be more inclined to take them at their word and respect their integrity. Bias does not necessarily invalidate evidence. Hidden agendas do.

While ATS is all about denying ignorance these people go about creating it...



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Well, if your question is, do I think that ATS is suffering from an influx of hidden-agenda merchants, by this do you mean that there is an actual organized campaign by industries with a stake in this that tell or order employees or "agents" to set up ATS accounts and post the company based agenda on a conspiracy site trying to reach a fraction of the 100,000 or so members that are on here to "brainwash" them or muddy the waters on certain threads? If this is what you mean by that I'd have to say no.

I don't think they'd bother because they can have world-wide media coverage at the drop of a hat that reaches millions of viewers/listeners and I don't think they'd waste the time on a site like this.

Now do I think that there are every day "Joe's" on here that might work for said industries and corporations that mistakenly think they know "the facts" and are spouting off the propaganda they have been fed? Sure. I can see that happening.

I also find it interesting on here that people who are fervently "for" or "against" certain topics like the global warming issue expose the source of their information just from their fervor. You can tell they have been listening or reading the propaganda proposed by just one side and spout it off as the "gospel" in their closed-minded zeal, refusing to even read or listen to any other side but the one they believe in.

Since I listen to all sides of the propaganda I can tell what news sources they are spouting just by the information they are claiming is the "truth." So to answer your question, no I don't think there are people on here purposely sent or with a specific purpose of spewing propaganda for any specific agency or pro- major corporation agency. I could be naive or just not paranoid enough but that's my opinion


[edit on 25-5-2008 by LateApexer313]

[edit on 25-5-2008 by LateApexer313]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by LateApexer313
 


Please forgive me if it seemed I might be using this thread to suggest those who don't believe that global warming is a man-made phenomenon base their views on disinformation. I tried to avoid giving that impression but may have failed.

You have put over your gut feelings very clearly. In fact what you are saying is basically what I assumed would be the case on this site, so I don't necessarily disagree.

I am, however, just asking the question: do other people have concerns in this area, and do they have the impression things may be deteriorating?

Incidentally - just for the record - I am still open-minded about the whole climate change issue. It is actually closed-mindedness that concerns me. And those that argue for it. The contribution of such people doesn't necessarily have to be formally 'organised', as such, to have a significant negative impact. All it takes these days is a bit of networking, and... Bob's your Uncle.

To deny this would be disingenuous. To accept it is a long way from paranoia.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


No I didn't think that about your view at all. I understand what you mean I am pretty sure. And I think your opinions are quite valid as well.

Since we aren't getting an unbiased "just the facts" sort of truth on just about anything, something this important an issue though, it's best to err on the side of caution I think...and perhaps there really are agents or disinformation agendas going on here at ATS...and hopefully, if there are, people will use their common sense, granted, that they have any to begin with



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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there is no doubt in my mind about the fakes trying to throw us off. but its up to us to find truth amongst deception.the right path is rarely the easiest to follow...



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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I think they just watch too much Fox News. The people you are talking about (I can guess who they are), use all the "buzz words" and fall for the agenda like suckers.

Maybe one or two of them is a cooperate shill, but that's stretching it. They are just gullible and haven't decided to think for themselves yet.

You can easily pick them out when say such things as:

"Cut and run"

"Stay the course"

"Support the troops"

"You are un-American/patriotic"

etc, etc, etc



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
As a result of a recent thread (discussing cracks in the Arctic ice as evidence of global warming) I have come to the conclusion there is a suspicious number of posters churning out pro-major industry/corporation propaganda.

That is not logical.
Any view someone might have on a given subject will be someone else's propaganda. I'm sure the people who think differently from you believe YOU are spewing some propaganda. It's really funny that you believe just because people have a different view from your view that they are spewing propaganda. Did it every occur to you that they are not spewing propaganda and that they might actually believe what they are saying and can think for themselves. This only proves that you are close minded and don't want to have a debate on the subject.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by WhatTheory]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Sublime620
I think they just watch too much Fox News. The people you are talking about (I can guess who they are), use all the "buzz words" and fall for the agenda like suckers.

And the 'others' listen and watch too much 'other' liberal media. They also use 'buzz words' and fall for their agenda like sheep. It's a two way street.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Fair enough. I don't like the "Liberal media" either (though I don't find it to be very liberal).

CNN is just Fox News with a "liberal" mask.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 



It's really funny that you believe just because people have a different view from your view that they are spewing propaganda. Did it every occur to you that they are not spewing propaganda and that they might actually believe what they are saying and can think for themselves. This only proves that you are close minded and don't want to have a debate on the subject.


I understand why my statement incensed you, but I am talking about people who are promoting vested interests, not those who are arguing from conviction. Sometimes the views of the latter will coincide with the former so it may appear I am tarring both with the same brush, which is not the case.

(With regard to the whole climate change issue I am not an expert and I am 'all ears' with regard to the arguments. I intend to go back through the whole thread in question and examine the evidence very thoroughly, then think it through.)

What has raised my suspicions is that I have noticed a large number of apparently entrenched hardline contributions that tend to support the status quo. I am therefore raising the issue to see if others have noticed increased evidence of input from propaganda merchants during their journeyings throughout the site.

Anyway, I found Kupios' evidence worth mulling over and Sublime's musings seemed insightful. The subtleties of the American media scene are beyond me, but I found your little altercation with Sublime quite amusing, anyway.






[edit on 25/5/08 by pause4thought]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by pause4thought

What do you reckon mods? Maybe you could let your hair down and join in with this one for once.



The mods are here to make sure the T&C's of the board are followed, Not to be baited by someone with an agenda.


ATS is an open discussion board. That means everyone, even those with an agenda can post here.

As for the truth, ATS has never promised it and even if they had I doubt they could deliver. It's not the reason this board exists. This is a discussion board, thats all it is.

I come here for information so that I may make up my mind about events that are happening in the world today. I gather the information offered and make up my own mind so that I am a better informed individual.

That means I need all available information, even it it's coming from the people with an agenda or hell, from the Illuminati itself.

I don't look for truth on ATS. I look for information. Then I make up my own mind on the things that have got my attention.

You should do the same. IMHO.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by mrwupy
 


Not sure why you have to use a loaded term like 'baited'. I just reckon the mods know more than anyone else what is going on. Nothing weird about that, surely?

And are you suggesting I have a hidden agenda?!

Otherwise your other points seem like common sense.




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