Sharon Stone:China earthquake is karma

Stone is right, disasters like this are caused by collective karma, thats not to say that it could not have been prevented. With the right kind of technology quakes can be predicted and karma can be with-held from ripening at a particular time.

according to all available resources,the only successful earthquake prediction was for the Haicheng, China earthquake of 1975, when an evacuation warning was issued the day before a M 7.3 earthquake.and experts said that was a very lucky prediction cause the precusors before the quake were very obvious.so i think to predict earthquakes successful is still a hard nut to crack for scientists.

Originally posted by zarzar
"Falun Gong examples"

I think this belong to another thread though, and in that thread I have provided plenty of examples from experiences and observations outside the mainland.

As for teasing, a joke made one or two, three times can be fine. But when it is becoming repetitive, then one would start to doubt the sincerity and motive behind it, at a certain moment it is not merely teasing anymore, but rather insultive.

Also the line between being Skeptical and being Paranoid is very thin. You are to my humble opinion crossing that line way too often to the latter when it comes down to anything related with China.

Way too often I have heard the accusation that Chinese members in ATS are "defending" anything about China/CCP and so on. But did you (and others) even bother to give it a second thought and think about what is being discussed? And why most of the "non-Chinese ATS members" would have an overly similar opinion about that certain topic, while most of the Chinese members" have a different opinion about it? It might has much less to do with any "propaganda" results, but rather a difference in culture, norms & values! You can be guaranteed if a thread is created about other social and/or economic issues (like corruption, banking etc), then you will get a much bigger variety of opinions, which is what you can encounter in other forums. In which I am also having fierce discussions with Chinese people in the mainland and over the world about the most basic topics, such as "Is the death penalty warranted for corrupted officials who was responsible for the collapsed schools?", "Is it justified to invest more in Space technology?" or "Should China allow an even faster appreciation of the Yuan against the Dollar?" and so on and so on.

Bard Pitt is indeed very clear-minded, down-to-Earth and know that he should not simply clam out anything regarding politics as a celebrity, who does have influences over millions of fans who idolize him. So his message of that his fans should not listen to his opinion and form their own opinion is exactly the correct one!

Well firstly, Sharon Stone's point was NOT that this was due to Karma but just what she was thinking. It maybe naive of her to say it but she does make a point. The Chinese people have been silent spectators as their government has repeatedly and systematically committed heinous acts against humanity for the past 6 decades. As long as it was not the flag waving, card carrying Han chinese, everything was fine. But an earthquake doesnt discriminate. She goes on to say that she realized that political considerations aside, one must not allow other's actions to destroy one's own humanity. Like the Tibetan aid group that is helping out.

Now, was she right in making her views public at such a public place ? No. But it was understandable. That is freedom of expression and that is our right. As for Sharon Stone being some bimbo, I dont think many of you know that her IQ was measured at over 140. I doubt many of the people who questioned her intelligence here are of the same caliber.

If the Chinese want to get their panties in a bunch then that is their prerogative but the claim that she is just ranting or this is some "tibetan" assault is the defense of the closed mind that doesnt want to understand what other people are saying.

Also thinking aloud, now that China 'claims' to have the second highest GDP after the US, what is their contribution to international aid ? How much aid have they provided to say Dafur, Myanmar, etc compared to America and Europe ? How much aid is being given to China from other countries in the region ? I dont hear china's name very often when it comes leading donors in any other disaster, while they seem to be whoring this disaster for all its worth.

reply to post by IAF101


For your information, China did not claim that it has the 2nd biggest GDP, most of those data came up different research center around the globe.

China is not against Tibetian or other minority. It is against intention to ripe our country apart. Minority actually enjoy a lot of benefits that wasn't given to Han Chinese. For one thing, all minorities can exempt from the one child policy, while Han Chinese need to pay a fine to have more than one child.... Now you never hear Dala Lama mentioned about that. Also, there are more than 50 ethnic groups in China. Many of them spread across the province of Tibet and other provinces that Dala Lama also claimed to be Tibet areas.

You are claiming that the Chinese who criticize Sharon Stone has a close mind but you are the one who doesn't look beyond. Please open your eye to read article to knowledgeable writer who actually did research and had a point of view that is not so convenience. Go to antiwar.com and read this to start - www.antiwar.com...

oh yes, I am Chinese. Every year I donated thousands of dollars to Doctors without Borders and Orbitz. A lot of my friends did the same. Also, China did provide financial assistent to many countries in South Africa. Lately, it just omitted a larget amount of debt from some African countries. But of course, any economic support to Africa countries from China are usually labelled as "colonizing" and "buying" African. And the accusers are often the European countries who used to colonize the area, even though that China never try to intervene with local policy and politic.

I am living in CA and I grew up in Hong Kong. I travelled to China for tourism but has never really lived there, so save it if you want to say that I was brain-washed by communist. Aparently everyone in the Internet who stands for Chinese/China are labeled as being Internet spy or brain-washed .....

Speaking of karma, I think America has gotten the worst karma of all. 9/11, Katrina, sure there'll be a major earthquake in California in the future. Does this mean that those people deserved to die and suffer also??? It's ridiculous to mix natural disaster with politics. So it's okay to have earthquake elsewhere but not in China?

What goes around comes around. Sharon Stone has just sealed the bad karma for herself.

To anyone who really believe in collective karma, and in fact implying that according to your reasoning and believe of collective karma all these tens of thousands of victims deserved to be killed, I just want to raise a few questions and statements for you to give it a minute thinking.

- China was a country at the edge of total collapsing about 3 decades ago right after the Cultural Revolution. So what happened for the past 3 decades to the Chinese people in general?

- Even now China is determined and labelled as one of the world's superpower in the future, have you have any clue how the over majority of the Chinese population, and especially the Sichuan people are living?

- Human rights violations and issues? Human rights activists are just the 21st century's missionaries, I would rather keep them as far away as possible from any under-developed country like China. Let the majority of the people here first get developed first, and at least get to live properly having at least 2 meals per day before the whole nation is being pressured to accept a luxury not affordable for a developing country.

- No "communism"? But what then you propose for China? Liberal democracy and human rights are nothing more than the new opium of the 21st century. Ever since we abandoned collectivism and embraced capitalism, how "communistic" you can still call China? No, this is not communism, this is socialism with Chinese characteristics in an open capitalistic market, something new and unique in human history. Will it be succesful? So far so good, Chinese people in general are enjoying unprecedented hope and the majority is enjoying a much better life than 30 years ago. Will it continue to be succesful and keep on bringing prosperity to every corner of China? We will have to work hard and keep on twisting, modifying, adjusting and improving this new system.

- Karma is about cause and effect. So eventually you better get to the roots of why China is so poor and got to become a "communistic" country who supposedly according to you is comitting crimes against humanity. According to your karma reasoning I fear the worst for certain countries who participated as imperialists in the Colonial period.



Note: Also if you decide to comment and reply me, I expect a full commentary/reply on every point, if you try to twist my words or take my comments out of context, I will not response. I will elaborate for you certain points though if you are sincere.

Originally posted by IAF101
Also thinking aloud, now that China 'claims' to have the second highest GDP after the US, what is their contribution to international aid ? How much aid have they provided to say Dafur, Myanmar, etc compared to America and Europe ? How much aid is being given to China from other countries in the region ? I dont hear china's name very often when it comes leading donors in any other disaster, while they seem to be whoring this disaster for all its worth.

Dear IAF,

China's aide pledge to Myanmar for the recent cyclone disastor is $10million,
of which more than 4 million has been dispatched. Medical teams from China have also been sent. The whole international community has pledged to donate $100million in a recent roundtable meeting organized by UN and ASEAN.

China's aide to Darfur so far is $11million, besides which several large scale projects of roads, railway, water supply have been donated.

I don't know how much your country has donated. I know that $10million is not easy for China at this time. But many Chinese intellectuals have appeal to the public that people in Myanmar are in the same situation as us and we should help.

Stone is famous for her IQ, we know that. How much do you know about China? I was involved in the 1989 Chinese Student Democratic Movement. One of my friend was seriously injured and another one in my college died. I stayed in a European country for 5 years for study and I know quite several dissidents who have never come back since 1989. But in 2008, quite some of them stand together with people in China. You can't imagine how much this silent people has paid for progress. You talked about heineous acts in the last 6 decades. Do you know how China was like before this 6 decades?

1989 was a tragedy for China. Most students didn't want a revolution but just a reform. Half of the then leadership of government tried to work with students, but things went wrong and they were removed from ooffices finally. Actually the relationship between the government and people was not as bad as you westerners imagined, and the government had absolutely no experience in riot control at all.

In the recent 10 years, both Chinese intellectuals and the government have become more mature. NGOs and civle society groups have become more and more influential. Intellectuals keep giving pressure to the government for democracy but most of them do that in a constructive way. Recently, Chinese communist party put Xi Jinpins its second highest leader, who is actually a son of Xi Zhongxun, a famous Chinese leader who supported students in 1989. Intellectuals widely believe that it's a good signal for gradual political reform. Today, Chairman China Nationalist Party, the ruling party in Twaiwan, is talking with Chairman of China Communist Party in Beijing. I can't explain much of the implication and meaning to you, but this meeting is an important event for China.

I don't agree with some of my fellow Chinese in this forum on some points such as liberal democracy doesn't work in China. But we all agree that China has gone through a lot of difficulties and made quite large progress. People need some "benign interaction" between people and the government to continue this economic and political progress while keeping China as a whole nation without becoming another Soviet Union or Yugoslavia.

China has a lot of problems but it's definitely no papercard house. Let's wait and see.

although she made a stupid mistake.but she as a human also deserves dignity.last night i checked the related report and forums,mainly amercian ones and she was skinned alive by netizens from around the world,i think that is enough,the world should show some mercy to this stupid woman.

Mrs Stone is a very intelligent woman and after I heard her say
this I was shocked because I know bad things can happen
to the best of us.

But then after I read someones post I realized if I had to
answer questions like the stars without rehearsing I would
have a video library of me saying the most stupidest
unthoughtful things. Im sure she didnt mean it the way it sounded.

reply to post by josephine


but acually not every celebrity say things like she does,she is known for this,here is the fox news report

Actress Sharon Stone, known for her off-the-wall comments, is at it again — this time saying the devastating earthquake in China might have been "karma" for the Communist nation's treatment of Tibet and the Dalai Lama.

and also she is facing a ban on her movies in china.below is the link

What Sharon Stone said about how “the earthquake in ShiChuan is a “karma” because Chinese people are mean to Dalai Lama” is simply something a person without wisdom would blab out recklessly out of a lack of thought or consideration.

First of all, Dalai Lama did pay his respects to the people of ShiChuan and offered help as well as encouraged people to help out at this time of natural disaster. Sharon Stone is obviously ambiguous with the teachings of Dalai Lama, and I guess she won’t have Dalai on her side this time.

Taiwan, who has always been a friend to Dalai Lama, has shown great compassion to the people of China at this time of need. They are one of the greatest believers of Dalai Lama and greatest donators of the ShiChuan earthquake as well, despite all the differences between Taiwan and the government of China. The people are innocent and this is merely a natural disaster. I wouldn’t be exaggerated to say what Sharon Stone said is mere blasphemy. She still has a lot to learn about the teachings of Dalai Lama, to actually speak of “karma” or she should probably think before she speaks next time.

Second of all, those who are killed in ShiChuan are mostly children and poor people without decent homes. If Sharon Stone believes those “children” are responsible for exiling Dalai Lama, and therefore received this “karma,” when all the officials in Beijing are still standing and unharmed, she should probably rethink the verbal injury she did to the parents and families mourning for their lost ones.

Third, if she believes earthquakes in China are a “karma for being mean,” I guess what happened in Myanmar and the series of flood and tornados in America are “karmas” as well. Interesting decipher of natural disasters.
Fourth, now we know what kind of person Sharon Stone is, I guess we should choose wisely the movies and films we watch. We don’t want our kids affected by people who would say such immoral things in the name of Dalai Lama, which is untrue and simply blasphemy in the sense of true believers of Buddhism.

Sharon Stone does owe an apology to the victims and families of victims of the ShiChuan earthquake. She has caused harm a second time to those victims, and although we can’t legally do anything about it, we can act by our choice not to watch her movies, not to donate money to any foundations that hires her to help. Maybe “karma” will get to her someday.

picture from www.news.com.au...

Originally posted by qiulin
I don't agree with some of my fellow Chinese in this forum on some points such as liberal democracy doesn't work in China. But we all agree that China has gone through a lot of difficulties and made quite large progress. People need some "benign interaction" between people and the government to continue this economic and political progress while keeping China as a whole nation without becoming another Soviet Union or Yugoslavia.

China has a lot of problems but it's definitely no papercard house. Let's wait and see.

Just wanted to share the following article about democracy in China.

The Chinese Brand of Democracy

The Chinese Brand of Democracy

By Mark Leonard | Friday, May 16, 2008

Can China produce its own model of democracy separate from Western ideals? In his book, "What Does China Think," Mark Leonard argues that many Chinese intellectuals are looking for a different model altogether — one that evolves naturally from China's unique problems and advantages, rather than being artificially superimposed.

You talk about democracy as if it were a religion which needs to be spread around the world. But elections will not solve any of the problems facing China today.”

It is hard to chew for people born and raised in a democractic system which is for the most part working for their beliefs and culture to know that their system might not be the best for another nation. People in these mostly developed countries take this heritage from their ancestors for granted and too often people believe that everyone can only achieve happiness if they follow their footsteps and incorporate the only system that they are familiar with.

The pressing issue for most people, he says, is not "who should run the government?" but "how should the government be run?" He argues that political reform should flow from social problems rather than universal or Western principles.

Idealism and realism. Always in tension. Feed your people first before you start to talk about any kind of idealistic benevolent ideas, I would say. Be realistic and incorporate a system based on your own principles and values instead of mimicing a system, which has developed for centuries. Look at the many failures and the suffering caused by failed superimposed systems. In China we have a saying: 正心 修身 齐家 治国 平天下. "Morality cultivation; Family union; State management; World ruling." To me, it means get your foundation and basic right first, just like learn to walk before running.

Most theorists of democracy would rightly reject Pan Wei’s attempt to separate how a government is run from how its leaders are selected: The former is very much a product of the latter.

The legitimacy that comes from elections would strengthen any government that tried to deal with China’s problems — domestically and internationally.

A point I fully disagree. Democratic politicians would of course want the people believe this and think in this way. After all elections is "the most effective method to buy these politicians into power. Reject democracy, and you reject them."

Pan Wei argues that democracy and the rule of law do not need to go together — in fact, like "Ying" and "Yang," they are in constant conflict with one another. Democracy is about giving power to the people, but the rule of law is about putting limits on that power.

And it is exactly that China still lacks a good system ruled by the law, which should provide transparancy and accountability for all governmental and institutional organizations of all level.

Where democracy draws its legitimacy from populism — elections and votes in parliament — the rule of law draws it from entrance exams and performance reviews: "The former is about majority, and the latter about meritocracy."

....

In the West, according to Pan Wei, we can enjoy both because we have reached a level of material wealth and modernity that allows the two to live side by side, balancing each other in permanent tension.

On the other hand, developing countries do not have that luxury. They have to choose one or the other. Many developing countries from Yugoslavia and Rwanda to Angola and Lebanon have chosen democracy without the rule of law.

And see what have happened and are happening to the people in these developing countries, which has no sight of real improvement for the ordinary suffering people at all.

On the other hand, Pan Wei claims, a handful of developing countries like Singapore and Hong Kong adopted the rule of law without democracy. They have known nothing but success. Their economies have grown steadily, they have attracted investment, wiped out corruption — and developed strong national identities.

What many tend to forget that even in "the most democractic and free country" of the world, their founders have started incorporating a republic instead of a full democratic system. Practically all of the Western European democracies also only developed from a monrachy and republic to their current forms. Just make a list of all the current non-elected European kings and queens, and you might be awed of the length of it.

It is no surprise that China’s Communist authorities are taking notice of Pan Wei’s idea of "demythologizing democracy" and separating it from the rule of law. Under his vision, a neutral civil service system would strictly and impartially enforce laws — and propose legislative bills.

Definitely handy in a Public relation warfarewith imperialists and destablizators. However, people currently living in a democracy should really look at what they are asking of others. And consider the question, is the questions/criticism raised realistic at all? Do you have any tangible solution for the criticism/issue you have adressed on? After all, I do believe for those majority asking a democracy to be implemented in every nation of the world and accept their own principles and values are "asking" this out of good will and just want "the best" for the common people. However, life and history have proven that not always what you have intended to happen will also happen the same way you have planned and thought. Especially when it comes down to something most of these "benevolent askers" lack just a little bit too much involvement and knowledge to lay out a real tangible sustainable succesful solution for the issue/criticism at hand.

A unique Chinese solution

It would be held in permanent check by judges who would be the guardians of the Chinese Constitution. Although it is a long way from reality, Pan Wei has a vision of a high-tech consultative dictatorship, where there are no elections — but decisions made by a responsive government, bound by law and in touch with its citizens’ aspirations.

This sound a bit too much like some idealistic ideas of many emporers in our 5000 year old history and which many of these emporers had failed to implement or to keep it long lasting and sustainable when power is passed to his heir. Eventually like I said before, we should keep on improving this new unique Chinese system and don't set boundaries yet and modify our system according to the development of the society and world community/environment. And mixturing capitalism with socialism in here is not the only guarantee for success, and can become very dangerous as well.

What is important though. To create an open and transparant ever-improving system, in which the government is accountable for their actions in a fair and jusitified way by a ruling by the law and constitution, which the over majority of the ordinary people have provided their mandate. A Chinese solution.



[edit on 27/5/08 by IchiNiSan]

[edit on 27/5/08 by IchiNiSan]

Josephine, as said before, celebrities have a social responsibility, their actions are influencing millions of people. As a super world millions-earning star, these celebrities are fully aware that everything what they are going to say will be magnified.

Her whole interview was trying to say how evil China and implying the victims deserved it. This is the message which is broadcasted worldwide, and not even only in China.



Haidan, did she even try to apologize or elaborate further her interview? If not, keep the criticism rolling i would say. This is her karma.


[edit on 27/5/08 by IchiNiSan]