Shouldn't Secrets be hidden?

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posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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I started this thread, because there is so much talk of Freemasonry and their secrets, and hiding of certain degrees of attainment.
Not in my experience.
I recently took this photo on a trip back to my hometown.
Every town and city I know of, has a Freemason Lodge. There is no secret to it at all.



And I have read many obituaries stating the fact of the person being of the 33 degree in Scottish rite.
EXAMPLE...





Suddenly on Monday, May 5, 2008 in his 91st year. Born in New Brunswick on June 26, 1917, Ken led an active life of military service, work in the volunteer and public sectors as well as hours of volunteerism. Ken enlisted with the Corps of Military Staff Clerks Canadian Army in 1940, rising to the rank of Major. He served overseas with the 23rd Self-Propelled Regiment Royal Canadian Artillery with the 4th Canadian Division and was wounded in action just one week prior to the termination of hostilities. Ken continued to serve in the armed forces both at home and abroad. From 1955 to 1956, he was in Viet Nam with the Truce Commission of the United Nations. This was followed by postings in New Brunswick, Petawawa and Fort Churchill. In addition to a number of medals already received, he was awarded The Canadian Forces Declaration and Bar prior to his retirement from the Armed Forces in 1976, with the designation and rank of Major. Ken was proud to follow in the footsteps of his father's distinguished Masonic careers, beginning with his initiation into St. Andrew's Lodge A.F. & A.M. No. 569 in Ottawa in 1954. He was Past Master, Zetland Lodge A.F. & A.M. No. 326 G.R.C. (now Zetland Wilson Lodge A.F.& A.M. No.86 G.R.C.) and served the office of Worshipful Master 1974 and 2000. Ken celebrated fifty years, a member of the Masonic fraternity in 2004. He was an active member of Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry of Canada; appointed Director First Aid, Valley of Toronto 2003. He served as member of First Aid Team Moore Sovereign Consistory, Hamilton, Ontario from 1998 to 2003. Ken was coroneted Honorary Inspector General 33 A. & A. S.R. September 2007. He was also an active member of York Rite Freemasonry: member, Victoria Chapter No. 205 Royal Arch Masons. Founding member and original First Principal, Fort Prince of Wales Chapter No 20 Royal Arch Masons, Province of Manitoba; appointed Very Excellent Companion in 1964. He was the Royal and Select Master, The Council of Cryptic Rite Masons of Canada and Knights Templar, Ottawa Preceptory No.32 Member Red Cross of Constantine, Holy Land Conclave No. 3, The Masonic and Military Orders of the Knights of the Red Cross of Constantine, KHS and St. John the Evangelist Grand Imperial Conclave of Canada.


Link
ospreyobituaries.com...

For the record, this is not an attempt to insult the family of the deceased person, I have only used this as an example, and my source was a publicly printed Newspaper.

Do you think this is a case of "Hiding In plain sight?" Or are we just looking for someone to blame?
In essence, are we creating a conspiracy where there is not one?
Yes there are many threads on this topic already. My question is, in YOUR LOCAL AREA, are the Freemasons as open with their Buildings and symbolisms and membership as they are here?




posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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Yes secrets should be hidden, but I recently heard that the best way to keep a secret is to put it out in the open. Then people don't wonder. It's too weird. The Mormon church is connected to the Free Masons and they don't even know it. Right down to the hand shake...



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
Or are we just looking for someone to blame?
In essence, are we creating a conspiracy where there is not one?


In short - yes.

But I understand why this happens. The world is complex, the forces that influence our lives are many. Bad things can happen to us that are beyond our control. We seek to explain why bad things happen to us, or why the world is in the state it is in. Some people simply cannot believe that the world is at its current state due to an amalgamation of billions of wills interacting. They think their MUST be some sort of sinister conspiracy, if for no other reason except that it makes their world simpler and easier to understand.

In the quest to find out who is responsible for this conspiracy for which so many have deemed must exist, they will go to no ends to prove it. They will create symbolism and links where there are none, they will take everything that agrees with their opinion as truth and ignore anything that contradicts it.

Eventually, what they create is huge conspiracies that attempt to link everything to one scapegoat. The scapegoat is easy, because painting something as evil and blaming your problems on it is much easier than examining what is most likely reality - that the group your blaming had nothing to do with your plight or the problems of the world. The scapegoat changes - it has been the Jews, the government, Muslims, and yes even freemasonry. But the underlying logic remains the same - and it is, in my opinion, woefully inadequate.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by Zaimless
Yes secrets should be hidden, but I recently heard that the best way to keep a secret is to put it out in the open. Then people don't wonder. It's too weird. The Mormon church is connected to the Free Masons and they don't even know it. Right down to the hand shake...


How exactly can anyone prove freemasonry isn't some sinister conspiracy with logic like this? If anything is secret its evil and we're up to something, if we're out in then open its to conceal our secret and we're up to something. Exactly what can we do then? It seems like the sort of logic used to self-affirm that we're just always up to something.

It is common knowledge Joseph Smith was a mason, and the evidence shows he most likely created some Mormon church ritual using inspiration from masonic ritual. That does not mean Mormons and Freemasons are connected, it means a mason used things similar to masonic ritual for something else. The same thing happens with frats that were founded by masons - I often find their ritual to have striking similarities. It doesn't mean there is any sort of institutional connection.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by AccessDenied
 


No.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by AccessDenied
 


No.


A one word answer is the best argument you can come up with?
Be careful. around here we deduct points for that.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


I like your explanation, and there is probably far more truth in it than not.
However, my jury is still out.
There are many other social organizations that are connected to Freemasons that do a great deal of fund raising and good things for their communities.

But quite a bit is still kept in secret, about their ceremonies, and their member selection process, and the real reason behind the Order itself.

I believe they wear a mask in public (speaking metaphorically of course, not a reptilian reference), and that there just may be far more to it than they let on.
What..I can only speculate.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by AccessDenied
 


No.


A one word answer is the best argument you can come up with?
Be careful. around here we deduct points for that.


I apologize, I just don't think that people should keep secrets. I was mostly thinking about compartmentalization, and how it is a horrible idea. As far as knowledge goes, I just feel that all people deserve to be on the same page.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


No apology necessary.
If it were only that simple than no one kept secrets, the world would be vastly different. however, secrets are kept for our "SAFETY".
A very good comparison there with compartmentalization.
There probably is much truth in that as well.
A lot of..
"The right hand does not know what the left hand is doing".



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
But quite a bit is still kept in secret, about their ceremonies, and their member selection process, and the real reason behind the Order itself.


And, despite what you read in the obituary, their membership is secret.

When people die, it is very curious how, now - all of a sudden - that person's history of involvement in "societies with secrets" is revealed. If he had been a member of the Bohemian Club, we probably would have finally been privy to that fact as well. (I'd be very interested to read the obits of Bush senior when he dies. I have a suspicion that he's been "on the square" for quite some time.)

Maybe the guy was proud of his membership in Freemasonry all his life and let everyone know (I get the feeling that he did), that's possible too. But he wasn't required to reveal his position - say, for instance, if he was a public servant - and the Grand Lodges don't make lists of their members available to the public.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


Grand Lodges don't make lists of their members available to the public.



Um..yes they do..
www.grandlodge.on.ca...

www.torontomasons.com...



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
But he wasn't required to reveal his position
You're absolutely right. The government today doesn't generally force people sew triangles or Stars of David on their clothing to show their affiliations.

I think someone tried that once. It didn't end well for them.



[edit on 5/25/2008 by JoshNorton]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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All of these secret society symbols are so silly! I was in a sorority, and my husband was in fraternity. I won't name the fraternity, but if you told their secrets, they said that you would die, etc. That is so insane, for intelligent people to curse their own brothers. What they have actually done, without knowing what they have done, is put a curse on you. So, if you do tell the secrets, you probably will die. It's all so silly to put a curse on the brothers, who you love and care about. I guess when people started these secret societies with their secret symbols, it was supposed to be fun, or brotherhood, etc., but it's really stupid and silly! JMO!



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


Grand Lodges don't make lists of their members available to the public.



Um..yes they do..
www.grandlodge.on.ca...

www.torontomasons.com...


I'm not talking about the bureaucracy. Every organization reveals this things.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by AccessDenied
Do you think this is a case of "Hiding In plain sight?" Or are we just looking for someone to blame? In essence, are we creating a conspiracy where there is not one? Yes there are many threads on this topic already. My question is, in YOUR LOCAL AREA, are the Freemasons as open with their Buildings and symbolisms and membership as they are here?



Yes. Most Masonic lodges in most areas (at least in the USA) are usually listed in the yellow pages, both printed and online.

For example :

Here : www.yellowpages.com...

Here : www.yellowpages.com...

NY State Grand Lodge listing of sites : www.nymasons.org...

Listing of Masonic Districts in NY and links to their web sites - this provides links to indiviudual lodges. Many of these individual lodge web sites display photographs of members and/or officers, some also include email addresses, addresses, and phone numbers of the lodges and their officers. www.nymasons.org...

Some Masonic lodges even participate in parades (not too secret there, huh).

I would say after being a master mason for a short while, I have seen quite a good deal of publicly available information with almost nothing hidden or kept secret.



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
But he wasn't required to reveal his position
You're absolutely right. The government today doesn't generally force people sew triangles or Stars of David on their clothing to show their affiliations.

I think someone tried that once. It didn't end well for them.


[edit on 5/25/2008 by JoshNorton]


I, as a citizen, in an ostensibly free society, would like to know whether a judge or prosecutor - a cop, a police commissioner, a councilman, etc. - in my city has taken an oath above and beyond his duties to the public. Like it or not these things are important to me, and I think I've earned a right as a taxpayer to have such questions expediently answered. Jim-Bob at the 711 does not concern me.

Like I can call up the Trilateral Commission or the Council on Foreign Relations and request from an entire list of all their members, I would like the same courtesy and transparency with masons.

[EDIT: testing 123 ... does the emoticons work for me.
]

[edit on 25-5-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
I, as a citizen, in an ostensibly free society, would like to know whether a judge or prosecutor - a cop, a police commissioner, a councilman, etc. - in my city has taken an oath above and beyond his duties to the public. Like it or not these things are important to me, and I think I've earned a right as a taxpayer to have such questions expediently answered. Jim-Bob at the 711 does not concern me.
Do you want to know what church every judge, prosecutor, cop, police commissioner, councilman, etc. attends as well? Because I bet they say stuff in church that is above and beyond their duties to the public. Should I has a taxpayer have the right to ask for a list of all Jewish cops if I were Christian and felt that a Jew's religious doctrine might be incompatible with how I think the laws should be upheld?



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
Should I has a taxpayer have the right to ask for a list of all Jewish cops if I were Christian and felt that a Jew's religious doctrine might be incompatible with how I think the laws should be upheld?


I know you're not dumb. And I know that you know exactly and precisely what it is that I am speaking of. Hell, I said in plain English: "Oath"!

You guy's can cavort in costumes all day and night long for all I care; but you partake and indulge in certain binding obligations toward your brothers that could and would conflict with that in which you might take to society as a whole.

Churches don't require you to take a binding oath to the fellow churchman. In fact, the Church discourages any oaths or obligations.

Jews do not take oaths to their fellow Jews in secret private rituals; and they do not promise - "allegoric" language or otherwise - to disembowel the transgressor of said oaths.


[edit on 25-5-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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Keep the stars coming ye brethren!

Every time a brother makes [what you think is a] cleaver post, give 'em some stars!

That's what you're supposed to do, right? Pat each other on the back.





[edit on 25-5-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]



posted on May, 25 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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Freemasons aren't a problem as far as their "secret" keeping goes. They are like grown men with clubhouses ( and I mean no offense by that).

I have said before, that Mason philosphies had a hand in helping to shape America and our freedom. If a good number of our founding fathers were Masons and they passionatley fought to make America the land of freedom, then how dangerous could their secrets be?? Mason secrets seem to simply revolve around their rituals, big deal.

I would be far more worried about organizations like the CIA personally.

Masons support helping one another, taking care of your society, personal responsibility and higher learning.

The CIA is responsible for black ops and false flag operations.

Black Ops:
en.wikipedia.org...

False Flag Operations:
en.wikipedia.org...



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