I didnt know experiments like that were going on since the 50's. I thought they knew very little about the brain, I mean beside labodemies and psychology. To actually implant a thing in someones concioucness, that monitors vital signs frequencies and activity and could send out voices through electrical mic or satellite feeds. With all the knowledge done since the 50's till now 2008, and for the future maybe it will be possible to have an implant that can read your thoughts send you thoughts and pictures and telepathic/satellite connection with other peoples implants or whoever put them in. Maybe even phones or internet or mech connection like with aircrafts and tanks.

I read more of the links on your thread and this is ... beyond words. Implanting things that can cause hallucinations and voices that are fabricated through technology is total control over comprehension. Can send someone spiraling into madness that they think would be genuine. These things have been researched for a long time and who knows another 50 or 100 years, they can reshape some people or all of humanity any way they like. I didnt know this was possible and their were people who knew that this existed.

I believe some of that, but not all of it.

Implantation of devices intended to affect brain function in humans? That's a given in my mind.

Unknowing implantation? Very hard to achieve, but in very select circumstances, maybe. Few and far between are the people in a position to have even a tiny hole drilled in their skull without their knowledge.

Reading brain waves to obtain specific information? Little to no chance at this point in our technological evolution. It would be very difficult for them to get that far with virtually none of the necessary understanding of brain function becoming public. It would require us to believe that the majority of progress in that field of study is taking place as part of classified research, and that they have been 100% able to keep involved individuals from making any use whatsoever of that knowledge they gained in the private sector after leaving the project.
If they could do that, uploadable knowledge, artificial intelligence, a nearly fool-proof cure for mental illness, and many other things would be within their grasp in the short term, and there would be murmurings of it.

But nothing doing as far as providing stimulii that trigger a few basic psychological imperatives (inducing or inhibiting fight or flight, circadian rhythm, etc). I'd be surprised if they really even needed an implant to accomplish that kind of stuff.

When I was in basic, I remember the effects of exhaustion being different from what I'm used to. I needed a little less sleep than I expected, was extremely easy to wake up etc. At times I wondered if there was something in the food. Probably not, but it crossed my mind, and was well within their capabilities.
Of course the most common rumor is that there's salt-peter in the food. I sincerely doubt that one, and have heard a great deal of anecdotal evidence through the grapevine that supports my doubt.

Originally posted by MemoryShock

A more prolific response tomorrow...

And yes..a complete memory lapse; I chose my screen name for that reason

More please. Sounds like there´s something to learn in this thread.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So you had a complete lapse of memory on how it occured? That could be a sign of mind control.

Might the alcohol be an aid to further forget?

[edit on 26-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

It is well known that a physical shock response will impair the memory. For this reason, witnesses of a car accident won't necessarily be attributed valid accounts if they were a part of the accident. Same, on a lesser scale, for witnesses to a crime who are asked to repeat the entirety of the experience, complete with specific details. Due to the intensity of the experience, the same occurance will have happened in a variety of ways to different witnesses.

I chose my screenname to remind myself of that and as well to remember that memory can be affected in many seemingly simple exchanges...when I was young, I used to play a mind game prior to falling asleep...if I ever lost my train of thought, I would attempt to recall what 'thought' prompted the previous one so that I could trace back to what initailly got me going in that direction. I don't this as well as I did back then, but it is a memory excercise that I am unsure how I came up with.

The complete lack of memory in the mentioned experience occurred after the eating of the fast food and the gulping of two shots of gin. Keep in mind...only two shots, though no food was ingested after the shots. Seeing as I was in the process of moving out, I set up my 'temporary bed' and that is where memory fails. Memory picks back up in the middle of the walk way in the middle of the apartment complex.

I do not recall leaving my room, much less the apartment. I do not recall hitting the window, which I was told was what happened. I remember picking the memory back up and having a sense of urgency, like I was running aaway from something. I even continued to avoid people as I tried to register the fact that I was indeed bleeding quite profusely (nine stitches).

Now, here are the inconsistencies:

I am right handed. If I were to lash out in a drunken stupor (by the way, I have no history of violent behaviour when I drink; I have been told that I merely get more verbose and happy) then I would have likely lashed out with my right hand. The cut is on my left hand.

There was only one cut on my hand. If I had smashed through the window, I would have likely many more cuts all over the hand. Incidentally, when I returned to the hospital for the check-up a day or two later, A man walked out while I was in the waiting room with his whole hand wrapped up. *shrugs* As well, the single cut was a single line down the center of my palm (not on the outside of my hand) and completely clean; try cutting something with a jagged piece of glass that has lost it's stability...there should have been jagged edges to the skin.

I was told that I had jumped out of the window. Now I can understand that people when they are drunk can walk on broken limbs for a short while because they can't feel the pain. I was only treated for the cut. There were no other bruising and or limps. This last summer I was at the Ren Faire, again, and was considerably drunk when I decided that I was going to follow suit with everyone and swing off the "pseudo pirate ship" that I had helped build. I needed crutches for two weeks and the fall was less than two stories. And I recall every moment of that experience to walking away, despite the fact that I had ingested a considerable amount more alcohol then the experience in question.

What is there to learn? This stuff does happen. There are many other instances and stories I can relate but for the most part, they are just stories. But this stuff does happen and some of us don't get all paranoid and urgent about it. I thought about it alot. I learned what I could.

But I am indeed sugesting that the experience described above didn't occur the way it was related to me. It was completely outside of my normal behaviour pattern and physically inconsistent in many cases. Incidentally, if it matters, my roomamte, when telling me what happened a few days later, didn't even look me in the eyes.

The worst lesson was that some of my friends weren't.

As far as alcohol being an aid to forget...absolutely. But my friends, fake and real, would confirm an amazing sense of functionality while incredibly intoxicated....

Originally posted by MemoryShock


I chose my screenname to remind myself of that and as well to remember that memory can be affected in many seemingly simple exchanges...when I was young, I used to play a mind game prior to falling asleep...if I ever lost my train of thought, I would attempt to recall what 'thought' prompted the previous one so that I could trace back to what initailly got me going in that direction. I don't this as well as I did back then, but it is a memory excercise that I am unsure how I came up with.

For some people that is a meditation that is supposed to lead to hyper-awareness, by the way.

The complete lack of memory in the mentioned experience occurred after the eating of the fast food and the gulping of two shots of gin. Keep in mind...only two shots, though no food was ingested after the shots. Seeing as I was in the process of moving out, I set up my 'temporary bed' and that is where memory fails. Memory picks back up in the middle of the walk way in the middle of the apartment complex.

If you are a habitual drinker, two shots shouldnt produce black-out, right? Right.

I do not recall leaving my room, much less the apartment. I do not recall hitting the window, which I was told was what happened. I remember picking the memory back up and having a sense of urgency, like I was running aaway from something. I even continued to avoid people as I tried to register the fact that I was indeed bleeding quite profusely (nine stitches).

Now, here are the inconsistencies:

I am right handed. If I were to lash out in a drunken stupor (by the way, I have no history of violent behaviour when I drink; I have been told that I merely get more verbose and happy) then I would have likely lashed out with my right hand. The cut is on my left hand.

There was only one cut on my hand. If I had smashed through the window, I would have likely many more cuts all over the hand. Incidentally, when I returned to the hospital for the check-up a day or two later, A man walked out while I was in the waiting room with his whole hand wrapped up. *shrugs* As well, the single cut was a single line down the center of my palm (not on the outside of my hand) and completely clean; try cutting something with a jagged piece of glass that has lost it's stability...there should have been jagged edges to the skin.

I was told that I had jumped out of the window. Now I can understand that people when they are drunk can walk on broken limbs for a short while because they can't feel the pain. I was only treated for the cut. There were no other bruising and or limps.

Sounds like you did not jump out of the window then. Who said you jumped out of the window? On which floor was the room?

This last summer I was at the Ren Faire, again, and was considerably drunk when I decided that I was going to follow suit with everyone and swing off the "pseudo pirate ship" that I had helped build. I needed crutches for two weeks and the fall was less than two stories. And I recall every moment of that experience to walking away, despite the fact that I had ingested a considerable amount more alcohol then the experience in question.

What is there to learn? This stuff does happen. There are many other instances and stories I can relate but for the most part, they are just stories. But this stuff does happen and some of us don't get all paranoid and urgent about it. I thought about it alot. I learned what I could.

But I am indeed sugesting that the experience described above didn't occur the way it was related to me. It was completely outside of my normal behaviour pattern and physically inconsistent in many cases. Incidentally, if it matters, my roomamte, when telling me what happened a few days later, didn't even look me in the eyes.

The worst lesson was that some of my friends weren't.

So you imply that some of the people you know "are in on it". Thats the height of science-fiction-paranoia. Remember the movie Total Recall? You must have loved that.

But you telling it in a sane and calm manner lends credibility to your story.

Any childhood memories of being in hospitals and at military sites with strange people?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
For some people that is a meditation that is supposed to lead to hyper-awareness, by the way.

I didn't know that. I was ~5 or 6 when I last recall having done that on a consistent basis.

ORiginally posted by Skyfloating
If you are a habitual drinker, two shots shouldnt produce black-out, right? Right.

That is my reasoning..supported grotesquely by experience...

I mean it...check the semper debate. I sat dumbfounded in front of the computer during the composition of my closing arguement until I went and bought some Vodka....so I ended up giving the handicap that I had promised semper in one of the discussion threads...

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Sounds like you did not jump out of the window then. Who said you jumped out of the window? On which floor was the room?

My roomate at the time, who wasn't very shortly afterwards. I saw him once after that experience and he essentially showed to express regret towards what had happened. I allowed him his chance to talk and sent him on his way after calling him a liar. Shoe fits...

Second story apartment.

A friend of mine actually has a picture of the broken window. I should see if I can a copy of that...

Originally posted by Skyfloating
So you imply that some of the people you know "are in on it". Thats the height of science-fiction-paranoia. Remember the movie Total Recall? You must have loved that.

I still have a few uncomfortable thoughts regarding how that movie ended...

Originally posted by Skyfloating
But you telling it in a sane and calm manner lends credibility to your story.

Any childhood memories of being in hospitals and at military sites with strange people?

Thanks...I am surprised, and pleased, that noone has confronted me yet on the subjective nature of the story. That would bore me as I am not necessarily here on this thread trying to convince people of my story...merely I am interested in gaining interest and attention to this subject and the fact that humans do take advantage of each other...sometimes in greatly exaggerated circumstances.

And I amm indeed implying that various individuals in my life have been "in on it"....paranoid, I know, but I have actually been of the mindset that I was wrong in interpreting in that way. Mutliple upon multiple coincedences disprove the coincedance, in my opinion.

Not military sites. But I was hospitalized for Panic Attacks ~8 years old. A horrible panic attack that was triggered by a scene in the movie "Inner Space", the part where the eye is "shot at from inside".....an unpleasant memory...

There are other memories....but I am at work now and I can't afford to lose this one...

[edit on 27-5-2008 by MemoryShock]

Today Tuesday 27th 2008 in Newsday I found something you might like...

BRAIN DEVICE MAY ALLAY DEPRESSION- new frontier for psych illnesses: Brain pacemakers that promise to act as antidepressents by changing how patients nerve circuitry fires. Scientists already know the power of these devices to block tremors of parkinsons disease and related illnesses, more than 40,000 such patients worldwide have the implants.

But psychriatric illnesses are much more complex and new experiments with so-called Deep Brain Stimulation, or DBS, are in their infancy. Their are 11 paragraphs on it.

Ive read a lot about this but the topic remains elusive. So excuse me if I take this opportunity to compile a deep-diggers question-list which you might enjoy answering. When (and if) answering, no need to put the questions into quotes.


1. What childhood nightmare do you remember the best?

2. Would you agree that its unusual for an 8 year old child to have panic attacks (considering this is normally a carefree age)?

3. Do you think this panic attack was the psychic pre-view of what would happen in the hospital, the psychic-attractor of strange people meddling with you or were panic attacks the result of something already happening to you?

4. Were you operated on in hospitals?

5. Do you habitually experience chills/recognitions when watching science-fiction involving implants, secret projects, paranoia, friends-are-not-what-they-seem scenarios? (Examples: Total Recall, Coma, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Cypher)

6. What other oddities have you noticed concerning friends?

7. What memories come up that you cant associate with any supposedly real thing that happened to you? (Includes: Displaced memories, memories without any connection to other events, places or people, strangely vivid memories, unrelated violent memories)

8. What about your parents?

9. Might your interest in conspiracy-theories be an attempt to remember something forgotten?

10. Have you had yourself x-rayed for implants? If not, are you going to do so?

11. Have you talked to people who might have experienced the same thing?


12. When and why did "Im probably just paranoid" turn into "Something is happening to me and I want to find out what"? Or do you still toy with the idea of it all being imagination?


13. If this is real, wouldnt it be a great feat to expose and overcome it?


14. Was the first time you wrote down your experience also the first time they were stolen from you (laptop)?


15. Who might your "handlers" be?


16. Why might Britney Spears have experienced something similar?


17. If you havent visited them yet, do you at least have the contact information of some renegade doctors and therapists who specialize in implant-removal and hypnotic regression? And if you have visited them, what came up?


18. If you hazard a guess, what might the purpose be of trying to remote influence you? Why?


19. Have you contacted ATS-member "General Eyes" who claims to have a similar issue?


20. Is the attempt to recover memories associated with unease or pain?




[edit on 28-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

Please allow a bit of time to answer these questions. I can very quickly get in-depth on a lot of them...

Continued answers from Above...

11. Have you talked to people who might have experienced the same thing?

I have not to my knowledge ever been in touch with people who have gone through what I have. I have talked, at times prolificly, with people who I have more than a an adequate reason to presume are a part of this, but they always seem to be "humoured therapy sessions".

12. When and why did "Im probably just paranoid" turn into "Something is happening to me and I want to find out what"? Or do you still toy with the idea of it all being imagination?

This is a very complicated question. When I said earlier that I had an unusual social experience(s) and situation, it is only upon reflection that I have determined this. I didn't think it was weird or different back then. I can't really say there was any specific instance...it was a gradual realization.

Out of the blue at one point, I called a friend of a friend trying to remember the very long diatribe he had said to me (it wasn't much of a conversation) and it resulted in my extracting the basic concept of "Cause and Effect" as an applicable point of ponderance. I thanked him, said something along the lines of, "I am closer to figuring out what I was trying to figure out," and hung up the phone. His girlfriend, whom we hadn't seen in quite awhile came over to the house almost immediately and I was questioned by my "girlfriend" why I had made the phone call (a relevant piece of information, imo, I was about 20 and she was 7 years onlder than me).

Another night, seemingly out of nowhere, I was asked if there was anything strange that I remembered from my childhood and we had a mild discussion regarding the fact that I never discuss my past and that I really didn't remember too much. I woke up the next morning and recalled an experience (night time paralysis when I was a teenager) and feeling quite disturbed about it. Her mother, who lived only several blocks away and whom we visited quite often, immediately came over and dragged us to the vet regarding something that had happened/was happening to our puppy (whom she was babysitting). We didn't talk about anything like that afterwards in that immediate time frame.

I certainly think that some of the things I percieve and ponder are imagined...and for my amusement, I do toy with the fact that it is all illusory and I am just a disgruntled human who wants to blame other things for my inadequecies...but really, I think those situations are when I may be the most 'delusioned'...

13. If this is real, wouldnt it be a great feat to expose and overcome it?

Absolutely. The drive to understand is the biggest motivator in my life.

Yet it is counter balanced by the fact that I can't just go to people and start describing anything and have it taken seriously. I can't even provide a coherent linear and organized account of this. I would need to do what I am doing here and then go back and rearrange events in chronological order as well as supplement with reasons, etc...and even then...it looks like a well researched story. The implant, if real, would be perfect, but I haven't exactly figured out how to ask a medical professional for the tests...

But these things don't just happen and the penultimate 'they' are more than adequate at what they do. 'Tis why I have no problem with a gradual thread like this.

14. Was the first time you wrote down your experience also the first time they were stolen from you (laptop)?

The laptop that you are referring to, that I referred to in the u2u as a "notebook" was indeed an actual notebook (paper and pen... )

Oddly enough...I forgot the password to the one laptop I do own and have carried that one around with me just because I can't stand the thought of letting go some of the stuff on that HD.

But it was not the first time. I have had other notebooks taken and many trinkets. To go a step further, because I move around alot, I never have a consistent stash of "things".

My thought on that is the stuff I do have carries with it a specific and tangible memory to the time I acquired it, as well as peripheral memory. The less I have, the less actual physical route to memory I have. Makes sense to me. I now have a box or two of things that I refuse to get rid of and go out of my way to ensure storage for if I have to up and leave for the umpteenth time...

15. Who might your "handlers" be?

These days, in my opinion, it is less likely that anyone can be attributed such a status. I have become very opinionated, semi-argumentative and the personality that I have cultivated over the past however long is that of a non-sequiter smart ass. I can derail a 'debunker' and that is what I wanted. To never be told "Yeah Right" again....people now adays say that they were "obligated to say it" when they see my eye-rolling in response to being told there is no conspiracy and that it is impossible, etc...this paragraph hints at a bit of pride I have, but so be it.

There are some in the past that I may venture something of that nature...the "Ex-Girlfriend" is now a licensed hypnotherapist...go figure......but as far as any corporate/government/group attribution or or thoughts, I have no clue. If I did, I would have been researching that to the ends of the earth.

16. Why might Britney Spears have experienced something similar?

She was bred to be a pop star. I am positive that the entire time she was growing up she had a problem meeting people naturally and not being anywhere near able to get through a day without being told how to live it. I imagine that a lot of her dreams are caught up in 'choreography' type attentuations.

Besides, when she turned of age and realized how rich she was...she rebelled. Very unintelligently. As if she were lashing out and making up for lost time. At any rate, I hardly would call myself an expert on Britney's situation and I am sure that I am only a passing authority on the subject at large...and that only because of my perspective.

17. If you havent visited them yet, do you at least have the contact information of some renegade doctors and therapists who specialize in implant-removal and hypnotic regression? And if you have visited them, what came up?

I haven't visited any. I wouldn't know how to contact them, or how to search for such humans. I wouldn't consider the implant removal...unless it was in a location easily accessed. Hypnotic regression, I would require a valid witness, video recording and audio recording. I don't trust anyone of that nature persay because doctors in my experience have been too caught up in tellingme what is up...rather than asking me and trusting my expression beyond the initial stigma usually saved for these topics.

18. If you hazard a guess, what might the purpose be of trying to remote influence you? Why?

I don't think I am that special...

So if I had to hazard a guess...I would say it is a general behaviour modification experiment meant to study a human in it's natural environment. Like on Animal Planet...I think that I was tagged and then released into the wild....not very glamorous.

19. Have you contacted ATS-member "General Eyes" who claims to have a similar issue?

Wasn't aware of this. I will look into this member and as well as direct him here.

20. Is the attempt to recover memories associated with unease or pain?

Anxiety. Lots of it sometimes. It is decidely easier to just not remember. And at this point, there is not much I care to remember.

I would like to remind everyone that this isn't as far fetched as it would seem at first. The principle of dissasociation is a natural phenomena that the human body goes through to seperate the inclination towards positive and negative behaviour. Negative results or experiences will tend to instill, in normal cases as far as I understand, a subtle anxiety or unpleasant thought asspciated with pain or anxiety. This will then be omitted in favor of the course of action that assuages this incurred feeling. This is usually a subtle process and is commonly taken by the individual as a logical process. It is a logical process...just not their own personal logic...

As for changing the thread title...good idea. It won't be a specific reference though...People who are interested in the subject are the only ones I care to have attentive to this thread and/or contributing. I think I'll need one of this forum specific Mod's or a super...easily accomplished though.

Summary of Data so far

Subject: MemoryShock/MK_Renfaire

Issue: "I was a victim of Mind-Control-Experimination by unknown sources"

Approach: Take as real and see what comes up when adopting the attitude of it being real.

Summary:


1. Panic attacks as a child, panic attacks today.

2. Alcoholism

3. Frequent sleep paralysis

4. Dream or Reality of lying on the lawn, car pulling up, stranger approaching...then blank/blackout

5. IceBerg Cavern Dream...since then reactive to freezers/popsicles.

Comment: Events erased from memory can still be recovered (albeit distorted and mixed with fantasy in a sleep/dreamstate.

5. Experimentation assumed to have started in childhood

6. Friends/Relatives behaving strangely, superiour as-if-having-secret.

Question: What "circles" or "social groups" did these friends belong to?

Question: Can you remember how/where/when you first met one of these friends?

7. Friends making decisions about subject without consulting him.

Comment: This is extremely odd. Treating you like an object/animal/child. For me the best indicator up to now.

Question: Did you have any friends/girlfriends that treated you as a sane, mature individual?

Question: Did most of your friends know each other or did some of them dissaprove of you seeing new friends or going to other places than they were?


8. No participation in social discussions and talk despite being present. People accepting this non-communication as if they are "all in on it". New people not commenting on it either.

Comment: Odd.


9. Subject experiences paranoia of being the object of collectively held anger.

10. Frequent moving, living in motel, at some fortune tellers, etc.

Comment: "Handlers" apparently like doing this in order to Dissociate someone from the cozy and safe harbour of a HOME. In de-identifiying a subject with anything and everything the subject becomes easier to implant.

11. Comments of friends when discussing issues too reactive in order to be normal conversation.


12. Two friends climbing into window while girlfriend says "go back to sleep"

Comment: Bingo. If that happened to me I´d know Im being toyed with.

13. Memory Lapse incident and being told afterwards he "jumped out of window".

14. Sudden memory losses after odd incidences (such as that buzzing sound in the Hotel)

16. Waking up in different environments

Question: Really?

17. "OCD" Symptoms

18. Reading conspiracy-related material

19. Has not let himself be x-rayed

Comment: You dont have to tell them why. Or you google up a conspiracy-paranoid-doctor to help you.

20. Has not talked to other MK victims.

Comment: Might be helpful.

21. Telling someone on the phone: "Ive figured something out" then hanging up. A few minutes later girlfriend who hasnt appeared in awhile suddenly appears. Subject is questioned about the reasons for his phone call.

Comment: Good catch.

22. Being asked by "friends" if he remembers anything about his childhood.

23. Memory of childhood possibly impaired.

24. Other incidents in which attention was diverted by relatives/friends when he started remembering something (going to the vet incident)

Question: Who the hell are these weirdos? You´ve been hanging with a strange crowd there


25. Subject willing to question himself as delusional and making things up.

Comment: A sure sign that you are sane. Only the insane do not question their beliefs.

26. Distrust of doctors.

Comment: There are some fringe doctors who believe in MK and will assist in looking for implants. Google.

27. Looses password to laptop and makes no effort to retrieve it or have a computer-shop get it back.

Question: Why not? Go ahead.

28. Written notes stolen.

Comment: A "handler" would understand that writing down ones thoughts is detrimental to mind-control and memory-erasure and would disapprove of that.


29. Owns few objects or "stash" that elicit memory.

Comment: More de-identification / dissociation.


30. Ex-Girlfriend now a licensed hypnotherapist.

Comment: Very telling. Simply amazing. Im dedicated so much time to this thread because this may very well be something dark happening.

31. Subject assumes that MK was a temporary experiment with him as we would experiment with animals and not necessarily a grand government scheme or manchurian-candidate type-thing. Possibly the experiment is over now (and maybe the subject deemed useless).

32. Subject possibly recognizes other MK victims

Comment: This was the purpose of the Britney Spears question.


33. Distrustful of Hypnotic Regression and therapists "telling him what to do".

Comment: Right on.

Comment: Advisable to seek out some more trustworthy and holistic hypnotherapists and then of course include video and audio. This really could be a key for you.

34. Subject keeps implying that he will be ridiculed for this thread.

Comment: Nonsense. Look at some of the other threads here.

Question: Any strange occurences since starting this thread?

Skyfloating...Thanks for your objective perspective to this. It means alot. I will answer more indepth during my lunch break tomorrow...

I feel the desire to keep an objective balance to this thread...and I haven't given the tip of the iceberg, as it were. There is more (much) to communicate and I don't see this ending soon.

But I would like to state that I feel no urgency...as I have been dealing with this for years. So...a prolonged expression is favorite...especially if you can (and should) assume that I am continuing alcoholic imbibement....(a reference that has its' own interesting points of consideration).

I recognize that readers may interpret that as a point of consideration. But I pride my self on straight forward communication and stoic ones at that. My responses to you, therefore, are more suited for my lunch break...as the most I have had to drink is a cup of coffe..

Originally posted by Skyfloating

34. Subject keeps implying that he will be ridiculed for this thread.

Comment: Nonsense. Look at some of the other threads here.

A deep sigh of relief was had when I read that....suffice to say...I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. So I will proceed in as 'organized' fashion as possible.

And I was drunk in all of my responses to The Vagabond......objective reasoning is easier in such a physiological state.