All this nonsense about my genes being responsible...

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Does it scare you that you don't have as much control as you thought? Or is does it scare you that everyone is different, and an approach that works for you won't work for someone else, and you're struggling to understand why?

No it scares me that the majority have bought into the idea of being victims of things they cant change.

If you´d think this whole matter a bit further you´d recognize that the final destination is a road-sign lettered APATHY.

Lets stick with Dyslexia for a minute since you find my opinion on it to be ridiculous.

Before I go on a Rant about it, what percentage of its cause would you say is inherited? 90? 50? 30?

Which only proves that food has the greatest part in obesity, not genes.

Which is not something I'm denying. Food makes you obese. But its the actually the amount.

Thats an acceptable way to say it. Why dont I read it explained this way in the news-media?

Noone's thought of it yet? It doesn't fit the prefered political angle of the established media? (RW = love "personal responsibility") I'd be really surprised to find out that noone has investigated the possibility of a fat retention gene or appetite regulating gene. Or even something else which effects appetite or fat/water retention. Perhaps they already know the solution to obesity but the "slimming industry" is too big now to be felled by one single solution. Best have everyone running about trying all these magic products, none of which work.

You say appetite is genetic, I say its advertisement-brainwashing followed by mind-associations of something being desirable.

Who knows, I'm also talking about base instincts/influences rather than just environmental influence. The cheap, readily available diet in the west is the lowest common denominator for diets. Full of processed, trans fats and preservatives. Perhaps these are addictive or alter the body in some way. Plus this type of food gets a lot of press/media coverage. But I eat this stuff quite regularly but I never put weight on. I believe my appetite is less than or equal to my bodies abilities to clear it out/burn the fat/etc. Where as obese people have a factor that causes them to eat more. They can't help it. And people saying they should get control cannot possibly be more holy. (Half the skinny women I see on the streets of London smoke, these use it as an appetite supressant. When they give up they, more often than not, put weight on. Then start smoking again because starving yourself to keep weight off without "help" physically hurts.)

Habituation.

Definitely worth consideration. But, if that IS the reason then you cannot say that people should have more "personal responsibility" because you are just singleling out a group that just happens to have "inconvienient" habits rather than societies "prefered" habits.

reply to post by redmotion


What percentage of causality would you ascribe to our genetics for illnesses we have?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by firegoggles

 

Thanks for the vids. Didn't watch them because I know Bruce Lipton, a scientist who does not leave consciousness out of the equation

O.K. glad your up on Doc Lipton he's a step ahead of a lot of science out there. He talks really fast maybe thats why he's a step ahead ;/
It's nearly annoying, but it's a "goldmine" of information never the less.

I do want to point out whether you watch them or not and I'm gonna assume you have seen "some" of his vids before or otherwise why would you not watch it? Any how I want to point out, these 2 videos more or less .. PROVE YOUR CORRECT in your original point/post and I highly recommend them to establish this fact and trade comments on the matter.

Has anyone watched them yet so far? I normally wouldn't be so repetitive but it's sooo relevant.
laterz

reply to post by firegoggles


yes, they are relevant. And they´ll probably be watched by those who already have this attitude in the first place and not be watched by those who oppose this attitude.

Funny thing that we rarely want to learn stuff that opposes our own viewpoint.

But nevertheless...maybe we can get some free-will-skeptic or jeans-wearer to watch it and comment.

Skyfloating; I'm afraid I'm not a geneticist, so I couldn't give percentages for anything...

I believe that its impossible to have absolute control over who you are or what you become. So yes, everyone is a victim to some degree! You can try to change your personality/life, do things to make yourself a better person but you will always have your inheritance and past to contend with.
Look at criminals:

- perhaps a small part of their genes defines them as slightly more likely to undertake criminal activity. (not under the persons control)

- perhaps another part of their behaviour is defined by their upbringing, their parentage (perhaps their father is a criminal and never worked or abusive to his children), and the people they meet and know. (again very little direct control over.) If you are born into a bad neighbourhood your odds of turning out "good" must be lower.

But it doesn't stop individuals finding the strength to reject these boundaries and doing good. Taking the criminal path is the lazy option. You can't know every situation or upbringing/background for every person. Therefore you can't have a one-sock-fits-all attitude about it.

To everyone who has posted on this thread - IT is not your fault.

You were genetically predisposed to be attracted to conspiracy websites and further compelled by your genes to actually contribute to them.

You are suffering from a disease, and that is the good and the bad news.

The good news is; diseases can be treated and even cured... the bad news is, your disease will have to be treated and cured for your own good - by the State.

You see, people with our disease are unable to recognize the symptoms, as one of the symptoms of the disease is the inability to see them develop in one's self throughout the years.

This symptom is often triggered by the intake of massive amounts of information which conflicts with what you have been told throughout the timespan of your life, until the point where you began to experience the initial symptoms of the disease and found yourself drawn to obscure message boards such as this one. There is a cure.

Recent developments in the pharmaceutical industry have ensured that there is now a disease for every product they sell. You no longer have to go untreated. Just print out a copy of all of your posts and bring them to your nearest psychiatric hospital... they will ensure that you receive the treatment we all deserve.

Remember; You can overcome your genetic prejudices and Treatment is always available.

reply to post by redmotion


Believe it or not, I agree with that. In no way am I a free-will extremist. Just skeptical towards giving genes and pharmaceutical companies too much control.

A lot of personal experience here. My grandma dedicated her entire life to what doctors said...and suffered her entire life, in the mistaken belief that her ills could not be changed.

The doctors didnt know what I knew about her habits though...

reply to post by doctormcauley


Thanks for the sarcasm. My thoughts exactly.

"Modern medicine and psychology" would have us believe that 90% of the people visiting this website are sick.

No wonder there´s a common distrust for all other stuff they tell us.

Modern medicine is not just pharmaceutical companies. I never heard that person who has a "bad" copy of gene without any other problem is forced to take drugs. If cholesterol is in the green, but there is problematic gene - doctors that tells this person to take drugs is not a doctor, but a drug pusher. Behavior adjustments could be advised, test might be made more often, but i do not think that anyone in the medical field will force this guy to take statins or whatever.
And as for apathy and paranoia - people who listen only to popular media can get those problems. So the cure is simple - stop consuming this junk "science".
By the way, i did not hear that person can grow his limb back, even if he believes in it and "changes" his environment signals. However in the near Olympics there will be a runner who lost legs as a kid and will run on artificial legs. This is victory of human spirit. Not sitting and saying that artificial legs are cumbersome, unnatural and with side effects while consciously concentrating on things we physically cannot do - like grow them back. Humanity should deal with problems in the problematic ways they can, not in the idealistic ways that they can not.
Do you think that person who is more likely then others to get some illness should not be aware of it? We are not just genes, science is not saying it. But genes are important part of us.
Hey, we do agree on something, though. Drug commercials have to be stopped!!!

After reading a lot of the posts i think we might have to ask an age old question in relation to the issues that the OP has raised.

Is this not the NATURE VS NURTURE debate. Except that nurture is once again undermined in significance as science dangles its latest and greatest in front of us. The media grabs hold of these ideas and strangles the massive amounts of ambiguity(open to or having several possible meanings or interpretations) out of the subject, until all that is left is the fear it needs to throw our way. 'Cause they know we all got the fear gene.

OK, you guys win. Ignore your family's medical history. It has nothing to do with you right? Just because your parents had diabetes doesn't mean you're at risk for it. Eat whatever sweets you want, and 'will' it away.

Ignore your excess risk of cancer because your parents and parents parents and parents parents parents died of it. Just think really hard it it will disappear.

Your genes make your body what it is. You choose what to do with it past that.

If you're afraid that you don't have precise control over every aspect of your body, tough crap. Deal with it. You can't control everything.

Try this, try to will your haircolor to change. You've got about that much chance of changing your genetic makeup to be less susceptible to heart disease or cancer.

Yes, you do have some control of your life, but to ignore the genetic factors because you don't understand the 'scientific mumbo-jumbo' as it was so eloquently described only leaves you in a more dangerous position.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


atlasatro had a point when he referred to the ambiguity of the field and how it is abused by the msm.

Thats all we are doing here, questioning that for which we havent received enough answers yet.

You dont care to answer my question to you about the percentage?

Keep up the good fight Skyfloating. You know the game. Most humans are not yet ready to take full responsibility for their being. It's deep rooted in the subconscious and they will fight till the death to defend their sleep.

Image the reaction if you told them they could create anything out of thin air. Or that they control the very fabric of existence. That's a lot of responsibility. Humans aren't afraid of being powerless. They are afraid of their true power.

It is comforting to know though, that one day, maybe after many lifetimes, they will come into their birthright as Gods.

Of course, it certainly doesn't help the cause that there are external forces that don't want to see that happen.

It's warriors like yourself, fighting the war for the hearts and minds of humanity, that give others the encouragement to press forward. It won't fully be won this time around but we will continue to keep the light shining in the darkness.

Originally posted by LateApexer313
Awesome thread Skyfloating!

This COMPLETELY ties in with the two major themes spoon fed to us night and day by all the media these days, print, television, news on the internet, every form of media out there....and these two themes are:

A.) "Your world is hideously dangerous!!!": i.e. All the alarmist headlines day and night. "Do you have the Cancer gene??? If you do your %65 more likely to die of prostate or breast cancer!!! Film at 11!!" Every day products in your house that can KILL you...film at 11!!" "The 5 things you are doing that are shortening your life!!!" "Your child's car seat can kill them!" "The plastic containers you put your leftovers in can kill you! Film at 11!!" This is endless and specifically playing on the publics' fears just to garner ratings.

B.) You are helpless and it's not your fault: i.e. All the ways you are not responsible for all the bad things you are doing and all the bad things that we are bringing your attention to endlessly are not your fault, give in, let the government help you, protect you, moderate you, regulate you into safety. Fast food is going no transfatty acids, states are banning smoking, taking away choices, because it's NOT our fault, we are helpless we must be taken care of due to our bad genetic codes that force us to engage in these bad behaviors... this is the message. Let Big Brother become your "nanny". Depression's in your genes you can't help it, take this pill.

And I think the two go hand in hand.

All great points, LA. I could not agree more. I get so angry because every single day it's the same broad telling me about what substance kills newborns, how I might be 99% more likely to get breast cancer, how every single thing I interact with is just WAITING to kill me somehow and if I just watch her special report on it at 5 I will know what to buy to make sure I'm ok. It is seriously starting to get out of hand.

But on a certain level, I'm not sure if everyone could function without something to worry about, something to rail against, something to be angry at. So many people seem to live their lives as anti-anything rather than pro-something, and I don't know what they would do if not walking around in a haze of negativity, but whatever these problems are, god forbid it actually has something to do with their own actions.

Another good point from a previous poster was that Science has replaced Religion as the thing to blindly follow. Before it was priests and now it's guys in labcoats who have harnessed things that we don't understand. It's eerie how similar the pedagogery is - some people love to feel in control of segments of the population and others are just dying to be told what to do. And the persecution for disbelief is practically unchanged. Instead of killing the infidel they just kill your career, your reputation, your credibility, etc.

Great Thread!

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
OK, you guys win. Ignore your family's medical history. It has nothing to do with you right? Just because your parents had diabetes doesn't mean you're at risk for it. Eat whatever sweets you want, and 'will' it away.

Ignore your excess risk of cancer because your parents and parents parents and parents parents parents died of it. Just think really hard it it will disappear.

No, the point of the OP, at least in his initial post, was not about conciousness, but about habits of people. There are people who consume lots of sweets and when they get diabetes they blame it on their genetics, the worst thing is they continue eating crap. Similar thing for fat people. There are obese people whose disease is due to a metabolism problem, for example not having a thyroid (is that the word in english?) like my mother, but there are others who are just plain lazy and unwilling.

I was fat, I could have blamed that on my father and mother who are both overweight due to certain health conditions, but whether I inherited those bad genes or not, it didn't stop me from gaining fitness thanks to exercise. My conclusion is, there are certain diseases and characteristics that are very inheritable, such as AIDS, baldness and probably cancer. However, many cases of diabetes, high cholesterol and obesity can be avoided and even reversed even if your genetic makeup is unfavorable.

[edit on 31-5-2008 by Halicarnassus]

reply to post by Halicarnassus


Thanks for clarifying that. The initial post was indeed about people blaming their habits on genetics...

...until some tried to stereotype me "positive thinker"

Sorry had to ressurrect this thread with a newsflash:

news.bbc.co.uk...

To quote the article:

They tested whether children aged eight to 11 carrying the higher risk gene variation had an altered appetite through height, weight and waist circumference measurements, and a questionnaire which asked parents about their child's eating habits.

They found that children with the higher risk version of the gene tended to overeat and to struggle to recognise when they were full.

To quote my post from may 26th

The genes likely to influence the "onset of obesity" are likely to be concerned with something else such as the control of appetite or how their body deals with the elements in the food that might make them fat or store fat around their bodies

[edit on 28-7-2008 by redmotion]

Now we´re not even responsible for coc aine addiction anymore

"BBC: Cocaine Addition Genetic"

Im disgusted by this type of "science".

reply to post by firegoggles


great videos, firegoogles.
it's totally relevant to the subject.