Speculation: Egypt to South America trade route, page 1
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reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 04:24 PM by Skyfloating
reply to post by Hanslune



Maybe there was no official trade route but only a few "secret suppliers" the ruling class had. The ruling class jealously guarding their secret in order to exercise power over the ignorant.

The more general idea of there having been no trans-atlantic and trans-pacific contact is, imo debatable.


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 05:13 PM by dr_strangecraft
There are basic problems with with classical Egyptian - MesoAmerican contact.

1. Time
Egyptian culture was eclipsed by the conquest of Alexander in the 330's BC. Their culture was already in steep decline for centuries, and not pyramids built since 2200 BC. Meso-American cultures wouldn't begin building "pyramids" until 900 AD or so, leaving a gap of 3000 years in "pyramid" styles. Never mind the fact that Mayan and Aztec pyramids perform a completely different cosmological function than their Egyptian namesakes. You know that the Indians didn't call them "pyramids," right? That it was Cortez, who wanted to be compared with Alexander, who originated that name for them? So where was Egyptian culture for 3000 years?

2. Technology.
If I was a Mesoamerican merchant, I wouldn't care about pyramids, cocaine, or tobacco. I'd be trying to get the wheel and the horse--hallmarks of Egyptian civilization, that would be news to the civilizations of the Americas in 1500 AD.

3. Disease.
Most "old world" populations have at least some resistance to both Malaria and smallpox--or at least you can see their populations have developed some rudimentary resistance to these killers. And yet the natives had absolutely no resistance to them following Cortez in Mexico, Pizzaro in South America, and numberless explorers in North America.

4. Alphabets
The Mayan writing system, used universally across mesoamerica, has nothing whatever to do with the bi- and tri- consonantal roots of semitic languages such as Egyptian or Phoenician. Yet the alphabet spread rapidly as soon as it was invented, to all of the phoenician trading partners. Why weren't the tribes of the new world capable of learning what the greeks, romans, and kelts so readily copied???



Since both tobacco and cocaine are processed from plants of the
Solanaceae family, I posit an ancient nightshade-type herb, used by the ancient Egyptians for its sopoforic effect, which has subsequently become extinct, or at least unkonwn to us. If the modern identification of the mandrake plant, is correct, then this is a proven example---mentioned in the book of Genesis as an Aphrodisiac, possibly similar to viagra.

See, I have a much simpler hypothesis that fits most of the data, without having to introduced self-contradictory trade routes and hidden histories.



Only Occam's razor can give such a clean, close, satisfying shave. And the ladies love it!

.


reply posted on 24-5-2008 @ 08:49 PM by cormac mac airt
reply to post by Skyfloating





Cormac: Ever heard of links in custom and language between the Maori of NZ and the Inuit of Canada?


Changing the subject are you, Sky? What do any alleged links between the Maori and Inuit, neither of which as far as we know existed as individual peoples of those names before the first millenium AD, have to do with speculative Egyptian/South American trade and trade routes? Nothing as far as I can tell.

cormac


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 05:49 AM by spacevisitor
My speculation about a possible route that good has been used to bring I think small amounts of tobacco and cocaine from South America to the high class ancient Egyptians.

South American Indians have used cocaine as it occurs in the leaves of Erythroxylum coca (also called Erythroxylon coca) for at least 5000 years.


www.a1b2c3.com...

There are normally three trade possibilities in my opinion.

1. Directly by way of the sea.

2. Indirectly by way of the sea to somewhere in Africa [by seafaring Chinese perhaps] and then distributed over land to Egypt.

3. Directly by way of the air.

When it was done thru possibility 1 you sorely must have found some South American artefacts in Egypt or Egyptian artefacts in South America.

When it was done thru possibility 2 you sorely must have found some South American and even some Chinese artefacts in Egypt or Egyptian artefacts in South America and China.

But as far as I know it, there is no evidence of that, so for the time being I personally rule out possibility 1 and 2.

And there is the problem, because it must have being transported in some way to Egypt.
So there is possibility 3, meaning that it has arrived in Egypt by way of the air.
Now I heard almost all of you think or cry out load that that is absolute impossible, unthinkable, unimaginable, and inconceivable of course because everyone knows [except obvious spacevisitor perhaps] that ancient Earth people weren’t capable of flying then.

But I do not claim here that those Earth people good fly then, no way, that is indeed impossible, unthinkable, unimaginable, and inconceivable.

I mean here that there where others then who definitely in my opinion used the sky to travel then, It where then the same sort visitors as we have today, we name them Extraterrestrials or Aliens now.
Back then they where named flying serpents, flying dragons and on as Skyfloating said in his thread “Aborigines and Extraterrestrials” or illuminated clouds, which you can see here.

reply to post by spacevisitor



Originally posted by Skyfloating
Aborigines and Extraterrestrials

Contrary to the claims of mainstream science, the aborigines are not the only people to have a “rainbow serpent” in their Mythology. The rainbow serpent is also known to various african tribes or the african Bantu religion. In fact, maybe it is no coincidence that Harvard scientist Wade Davis book on Haitan Voodoo and Secret Societies of the West Indies (which originate in Africa) is called "The Serpent and The Rainbow". Neither would it be the only account that somehow associates human origins with Serpents. We are reminded of the ancient biblical tale of the serpent in the garden of Eden, ancient Chinese tails of flying dragons, ancient germanic tales referring to the “Lindwurm” which, according to mythology was a flying dragon who shaped the earth,


So by speculation as we do here, you can’t rule out the real possibility that there was a sort of contact between the high class ancient Egyptians and some of these flying serpents or whatever they named them then.
And because of the very special “pleasant” property of tobacco and cocaine it was the only thing they where brought to Egypt from South America .

Originally posted by Skyfloating
or even of the ancient egyptian tale called “The Shipwrecked sailor” which refers to a beautiful garden that sunk in a flood after being inhabited by very colorful serpents. An excerpt from this ancient egyptian text:

"Suddenly I heard a noise as of thunder, which I thought to be that of a wave of the sea. The trees shook, and the earth was moved. I uncovered my face, and I saw that a serpent drew near. He was thirty cubits long, and his beard greater than two cubits; his body was as overlaid with gold, and his color as that of true lazuli. He coiled himself before me. "Then he opened his mouth, while that I lay on my face before him, and he said to me, "What has brought you, what has brought you, little one, what has brought you? If you say not speedily what has brought you to this isle, I will make you know yourself; as a flame you shall vanish, if you tell me not something I have not heard, or which I knew not, before you.'


Originally posted by Skyfloating
No matter if the mythology is south american or african or chinese or northern european, the themes repeat, with flying serpents, gods coming down from the sky and returning back, gods teaching culture and so forth. I actually did not expect to find these very same elements in aboriginal history considering that they seemed remote and unrelated to other cultures of our planet.

“But it's only mythology, isn't it?” the skeptic says. “Mythologies are works of fiction”.


So far.

[edit on 25/5/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 25/5/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 25/5/08 by spacevisitor]


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 01:05 PM by cormac mac airt
reply to post by dr_strangecraft





Why only those two plant products


Mainly because there are those who have read about the so called "Cocaine Mummies of Egypt" who contend that they had to have come into contact with the coca and tobacco plants of the New World, not some derivative Old World species.

Not much from the point of archaeology really helps the opposing argument.

cormac
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