McCain Throws Temper Tantrum, page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 11:00 AM by qxlb52
reply to post by grover



"Temper tantrum"? If you can call it that. It wasn't anything more than a fully explanative counter to Obama bin Laden's brief attack on McCain's reasoning behind his voting. McCain is concerned about the calibre of recruit signing up once such a nebulous bill is enacted.

This bill in its current form will, like Obama's campaign tactic, promise too much and deliver too little. This large-enough-net will possibly ring in deadbeats who only care about the money and not the service. The quality will be sacrificed for the quantity.

But this would be a way for Obama to say that "he created new jobs for the less well-to-do" by making it luring to enter the military. Obama's just dangling new carrots in an old direction which is typical politicizing. He's suckering the poor vote in with this sponsorship but what will he do AS the commander-in-chief with this "new army"?

I'm certainly not voting for Obama now come the general election. Nor am I casting in with McCain. You figure it out Grover.



reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 03:04 PM by wytworm
Originally posted by qxlb52
reply to
post by grover



"Temper tantrum"? If you can call it that. It wasn't anything more than a fully explanative counter to Obama bin Laden's brief attack on McCain's reasoning behind his voting. McCain is concerned about the calibre of recruit signing up once such a nebulous bill is enacted.

This bill in its current form will, like Obama's campaign tactic, promise too much and deliver too little. This large-enough-net will possibly ring in deadbeats who only care about the money and not the service. The quality will be sacrificed for the quantity.

But this would be a way for Obama to say that "he created new jobs for the less well-to-do" by making it luring to enter the military. Obama's just dangling new carrots in an old direction which is typical politicizing. He's suckering the poor vote in with this sponsorship but what will he do AS the commander-in-chief with this "new army"?

I'm certainly not voting for Obama now come the general election. Nor am I casting in with McCain. You figure it out Grover.


So lowering recruiting standards isn't worrying him but paying for an education for those who serve is? Fascinating analysis and even more reason not to vote for him.

I wish we had a word for those who serve for money instead of love for the service...Lets make one up...mercenaries! Lets see...Blackwater!

I resist your impugning the integrity of the World War 2 vets who benefited from the original GI Bill. Shame on you!

This bill is by Webb, go look up his record and tell us how you are more of an expert on building an army and taking care of the troops than he is.

[edit on 25-5-2008 by wytworm]



reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 03:42 PM by vision
Originally posted by evanmontegarde
The GI Bill's head sponsor is Jim Webb, a senator who is just as much as a war hero as McCain is. Obama supports Webb's bill because he believes - rightfully - that soldiers deserve to be given the opportunity of a college education for putting their life on the line for America.

Why does John McCain want to deny that to them? Would he rather have them serve their fourth or fifth tour in Iraq, then returning home to find nothing but minimum wage waiting?


Why you ask? Answer: McCain isn't here to make any real change. War is a reality that we have to face right now, and I think those who go and fight should get all the medical attention they need, a chance to build upon their military experience and go to college to create a prosperous life.

Obama wasn't in the Military, who really care Thats not what being a President is all about, it's about having the ability to lead and make right decisions for the country.

Now with McCain, who is basically preparing to serve Bush's 3rd term, how does that help us face serious issues like the Economy, Independent Energy, Climate Change, Health care, the War in Iraq, Education and so on?
You could be cynical and say Obama has too much "hope" or wants to create too much "change", or that these are simply nice ideas and not founded in reality.
You could say that and perhaps be right or wrong, but that is not my point. The point is, Obama has clear plans to help America move forward and the GI Bill is one of these steps toward change.
Yet McCain's responses to Obama's remarks are fueled with defensive remarks. Not filled with logic and reason as to why he won't or doesn't support the GI Bill. Maybe because the lobbyists who fund his campaign or the same lobbyists he wants to put in the white house have other plans on how to spend that money, the same money we could be using to show honor to and truly support our brave troops who return home from war with more than words. I think giving these veterans a college education & health care should be a given, some may even need more support like psychiatric health or whatever the case may be. So to see a veteran be so against the support of the veterans of the past, present and future only hurt what small chance McCain has to find support from any veteran.


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 05:58 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by wytworm


I think there was no impuignment of WW2 vets and the GI bill in Qxlb52's statement, only the concern that McCain and others make about the sweeping "carte-blanche" attraction of the bill that MIGHT tempt people into recruitment just for the pay. It appears that McCain and other vets are afraid this bill will create "mercenary class soldiers" and not true soldiers. We want tough fighting men for our country's defense and not a bunch of trigger-happy, disgruntled mercenaries for anyone who'll pay them enough.

And who's to say that gang bangers might not enlist just to sharpen their urban combat skills before taking the money and running? Another justifiable fear.

No I think Qxlb52's statement impuigned nobody, bit did warn of the fears many active, reserve, and veteran soldiers have.


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 09:41 PM by projectvxn
reply to post by AgentStovkowski




CFR.org lists him as a member of the SENATE not of CFR. They follows his campaign because presidents help shape foreign policy. Obama is not a member of the CFR.


Edit to add:

Richard Lugar is not on the list I posted either. This is a comprehensive list which is compiled from the actual membership list. CFR.org does NOT publish a member list online. The only way to get it is to call them and ask, or get it free through a 3rd party. Get your facts straight and learn what commas mean.



[edit on 25-5-2008 by projectvxn]


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 11:41 PM by AgentStovkowski
Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to
post by AgentStovkowski




CFR.org lists him as a member of the SENATE not of CFR. They follows his campaign because presidents help shape foreign policy. Obama is not a member of the CFR.


Edit to add:

Richard Lugar is not on the list I posted either. This is a comprehensive list which is compiled from the actual membership list. CFR.org does NOT publish a member list online. The only way to get it is to call them and ask, or get it free through a 3rd party. Get your facts straight and learn what commas mean.



[edit on 25-5-2008 by projectvxn]


Perhaps you missed the part where it says he is a "speaker" for the CFR?

Even if he's not an official member, he still attends their meetings, speaks at their meetings, and supports their agenda.

Do you honestly think a non-member of the CFR could be the frontrunner in an election?


reply posted on 25-5-2008 @ 11:59 PM by projectvxn
reply to post by AgentStovkowski




Yes that means he was invited as a speaker at a CFR conference. All that does is allow for some politicians to be able to address people who drive and influence foreign policy.

That doesn't make him part of the membership roster. Do some real research. Call these people and ask. Their contact information:



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www.cfr.org...



[edit on 26-5-2008 by projectvxn]


reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 12:22 AM by AgentStovkowski
reply to post by projectvxn



Interesting. But if he's not a member, why doesn't he just say he's not? Back when the presidential primary race was interesting and heated up, I watched a debate, and someone actually asked Obama if he was a member of the CFR. I think it was the Youtube debates, but I'm not sure. He just dodged the question, didn't say yes or no.


reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 12:50 AM by projectvxn
Originally posted by AgentStovkowski
reply to
post by projectvxn



Interesting. But if he's not a member, why doesn't he just say he's not? Back when the presidential primary race was interesting and heated up, I watched a debate, and someone actually asked Obama if he was a member of the CFR. I think it was the Youtube debates, but I'm not sure. He just dodged the question, didn't say yes or no.





I remember that. He said he showed up gave a speech and talked to a few people. But that he wasn't "A card carrying member or anything."


If he were a member I wouldn't be supporting him. People have flung so many accusations at Barack Obama over everything that may imply something. But when you dig deep enough, there just isn't anything there to make it some sort of conspiracy. I think he's where he is because of the people not because of the establishment. I've noticed that no establishment figures have anything good to say about Obama, especially not the Neo-Cons. And they have been the most responsible for all of the lies circulating about Obama.

He may not be perfect(None of these candidates are) but he's not some cartoonish evil-doer. He's been accused of brainwashing people into a trance with his speeches. He's been accused of being a terrorist in disguise, accused of hating this country, accused of being an "elitist" when everything this man has done can be traced. These people put this information out for one reason, it doesn't have to be true, they count on people not doing the research in order to find out whether it is or not. They know people aren't going to call the CFR, they're not going to call his Senate office and get documents, they're not going to go to the media to find out what was actually said. They stamp an official seal on it and let the fireworks fly..That's why this campaign has been about gaffs and false accusations instead of real issues. Obama has not been able to address some issues due to some of these false attacks. Hillary Clinton hasn't been addressing certain things because she's been busy creating this # storm. And McCain is just sitting on the sidelines, peddling Bush ideologies, and watching the Democratic party separate at the seams.

Obama has gone up against the Clinton machine and beat them. Why? Because Obama attacked voting records and policy stances, and Hillary spread rumors and attacked Obama's legitimacy as a person, an American person who has done alot in his short time in politics and public service.

But all of that gets pushed aside...Somehow Obama is being "treated like a star in the Media" when it is his campaign that has had to defend from accusations ranging from secret muslim jihadist to anti-american racist.

Instead of creating a real debate, these idiot have created a divisive firestorm that shows the true colors of not just some citizens of the united states, but large elements of the politically established as well.


[edit on 26-5-2008 by projectvxn]


reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 01:27 AM by weedwhacker
reply to post by projectvxn



project.....sorry to jump in, liked the link you put up just above....but hate to ask a dumb question.

I've heard of the CFR, usually not in a good light....sometimes implied connections to the Bilderbergs, or the IMF or World Bank....

In simple terms, how is the CFR different from the UN? (I am not asking to be cute, I want some feedback, guess I'll get it from different sides....but it should be good to discuss openly....pros and cons....)

Thanks


reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 01:54 AM by Sheeper
reply to post by projectvxn



Henry H. Perritt, Jr., Michael H. Moskow, Henry S. Bienen, and Richard Joseph. Are members of both the CCFR and CFR

From the CCRF website.
Corporate membership in The Chicago Council delivers:

* Access to U.S. and international government officials at the HIGHEST LEVELS.

No, no, there is no connection, that is with about 1 minute of digging, imagine if i was a loser with nothing better to do than research.


reply posted on 26-5-2008 @ 02:04 AM by projectvxn
Originally posted by Sheeper
reply to
post by projectvxn



Henry H. Perritt, Jr., Michael H. Moskow, Henry S. Bienen, and Richard Joseph. Are members of both the CCFR and CFR

From the CCRF website.
Corporate membership in The Chicago Council delivers:

* Access to U.S. and international government officials at the HIGHEST LEVELS.

No, no, there is no connection, that is with about 1 minute of digging, imagine if i was a loser with nothing better to do than research.



And yet in your one minute of digging you didn't get Where Michelle Obama is part of the CFR.

And it's the CCGA not the CCFR or CCRF.

Keep reaching it's funny.
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