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Why are Atheists...Atheists?

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posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:09 PM
reply to post by Bigwhammy

While I do not find your theory to be conclusive in any way (obviously), that does seem to be a well thought out and grounded theory. I definitely give it a big stamp of approval for "Plausibility".

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:15 PM
reply to post by Sublime620

If morality is handed down from God, then why do different cultures represent different values? Why is it okay to kill babies in one culture and wrong in another?

How much is due to conditioning and environment? One culture may view human life, or a baby girls life, as worth nothing. This is created by man, not by God.

On the other hand a person can have an inherited predisposition to be an evil person and the environment can have a big impact on this person, whether it manifests, or not! Conditioning can work for, or against, this person. God has allowed man to inherit the "sins of the fathers, mothers or other relatives." God will not influence inherited DNA traits. Each person has to take responsibility for his own being, and so, have a choice as to whether they become victims of their own genetic make-up.

My husband interviewed Ted Bundy many years ago (my husband worked at really high levels in the mental health field). That man was very much a sociopath and psychopathic, due to genetics, and the subsequent training he received primarily by; his grandfather. By torturing animals etc., he was able to manifest this learned, and inherited behavior.

Who knows what would have been his outcome, or future, if he had been raised in a functional environment and received help.

We cannot underplay the significance of family environment and societal influence. Morality may be inborn in us, but the responsibility lies on the parents to instill values on the child. God won't force our free will.

This is an aspect I am hearing over and over that many on ATS don't quite understand.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:28 PM
reply to post by MatrixProphet

You say many "don't understand", but I find that to be a bit of a down-the-nose view of my opinion.

It's not that I don't understand, it's that it takes a lot more than just words to convince me that some little invisible object in my body called a Soul is the reason I have morals (or can have morals - or what have you).

I'm not saying it's not possible, but I am also open to other more concrete ideas that others may offer.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:33 PM

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Why are Athiests ....Athiests??

simple.....religous texts are written by people....people intent on controlling other people.

I always get a kick out of those who think books written by people are not worthy of reading. Then they think this book in particular is especially heinous because it was written by people who want to control other people 2000 years ago. I know books that were written by people who wanted to have sex with other people, books that were written by people that wanted to meet other people, etc,.; I still don't see what the big point is to all that but heh I guess if one is in fear of being controlled,, they won't read that book. and Atheist think WE have superstitious minds

Science has given us knowledge.

Here again is another signature tactic of Atheists, Quickly disparage their stable datum then bring up the topic of Science. This is the most cliche method of de-conversion their is.

Anyone know what an 'extemeophile' is???

Now here comes the part where they impress us with their knowledge using some obscure bit of information or factoid. Usually what follows is the typical presumption we know nothings can't google the word ourselves so they "Break it down" for us.

Let me help you break it down....'extreme', you all know....'phile' is Greek for life....

Ill just betcha his greek is as bad as his science is incorrect.

An 'extremophile' is a lifeform that exists in conditions we would not normally associate as conducive to 'life'......yet, there is life, on our own planet.....right under our noses, if you care to look!!!!!!

I think what WW is talking about is "Extremophil" but what he is so excited about doesn't impress me in the least. Just because Science finally finds out that the creator of life has made life in places Science once thought too silly to exist or too stupid to believe while in their arrogance and total denial of the power of life created by the God of the Bible, we just sit thinking to ourselves, "hehe look Jasper,, he thinks he is on to sumpthin new and scientifical."

Did a 'god' create all of this????

Why nooo, this was all just a happy accident, a big bang size bit of dumb luck having no direction no reason no explanation at all !!

Yes God created it, you got a problem with that?

Did some imagined 'god' create our Galaxy????

To some I suppose that is true.

Did this same, alleged 'supreme being', create the whole Universe????

If he did,, then what?

Step out of your little shells, the shells you were written PEOPLE!!!!

If you wish to know is not written in a book...not the bible, nor the koran, nor the old testament.....your god is in you....NOT in a book!!!!

Ha ha that's funny WW, that is just what that book says too

I am not a preacher....I hate all religions, because they turn peole into sheep....look inside. Don't use some mass hype....use your own intellect.

what makes you think yours is all that much better WW. Oh nevermind, I didn't see the part where you mention your hatred of us.

Seems to me the only reflection you give for Atheists and Science is one of pure hatred, intolerance and bigotry

Here I thougt the Science community would be above all of that kind of thing.

- Con

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:33 PM
reply to post by MatrixProphet

I agree we learn morals from our families, churches and schools. But I am saying is people do not define the measuring stick that morality is judged by. If we did morality would purely a matter of personal opinion and preference.

If morality is not absolute it has to be relative. And then it is purely opinion. Then we are screwed big time. Comparing Hitler and Jesus would be akin to chocolate and vanilla. Purely a personal choice.

If morality is only defined by humans - then the majority rules - and there is nothing immoral about the majority enslaving the minority.

Is that true or is slavery just wrong? Why?

[edit on 5/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Sublime620

You say many "don't understand", but I find that to be a bit of a down-the-nose view of my opinion.

Yeah, comes off rather condescending doesn't it. I didn't know Matrix believed in the concept of the soul. I wonder how close her discription of same is to the way it is talked about in that religion she dumped and no longer believes in.

- Con

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 07:42 PM
[edit on 27-5-2008 by Sublime620]

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 08:10 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head. Religions create the vast majority of atheists. There are so many insane rules to appease a God who is all powerful and all knowing but supposedly so insecure that he needs constant worship and attention. Sooner or later, people reject the ideas of the religion and the idea of God with it.

For me, I told my mother that I was a very spiritual person and she asked me what religion I had joined. I said none. She asked me who had me believing what as if some religious leader had warped me into some belief. It's ironic that people cannot believe in a creator separate from religion.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 08:51 PM

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Why nooo, this was all just a happy accident, a big bang size bit of dumb luck having no direction no reason no explanation at all !!

Sounds like God.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 09:00 PM
I didn't think anyone wanted to reply to me anymore.

I'm much to strong for your petty invisible mind tricks.

I put your God in check-mate and you acted like fools.

I put your language in context and you became irrelevent and uneducated.

Religion : A following consisting on uneducated, lackluster lingual skills and fools that worship an illogical and unprovable invisible and non-physical God that exists seperately from a universe in wich there is said to be neither good or evil, moral or immoral, as proclaimed by at least one religious representative in this thread, but feels the need to contradictively and pointlessly bestow "His" moralities onto us.

What a barfing joke. You people are sick, literally, sick. Your minds are deluded.

I'm out, get in your last words PLEASE (do something for yourselves), victory is already for the athiest as it searches for not even nothing, yet knows everything and has found nothing as well, whereas the theist must search for eternity for an invisible shapeshifting Bearded man that is omnipresent but can not exist in Hell.

May you find logic and may you understand science.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 09:41 PM
reply to post by Sublime620

You are right. I later regretted writing that, for I feared it would be taken wrong. My apologies. It is very hard IMO to have blind communication like we have on ATS. It is easy to misunderstand and be misunderstood. I am guilty of both.

Let me qualify a bit and still keep anonymity (to a degree). I have extensive experience and training in the mental health/recovery field. I do have a lot of knowledge in this area along with being married to Sigmund Freud, LOL! So if I come off a little bit of a know-it-all, please excuse me.

Where I do not qualify in experience and knowledge is in the evolutionary teachings, and many aspects of science. I have a minimal working knowledge but cannot begin to communicate on the same level as so many of you, who can discuss it, on both sides of the issue, so intelligently!

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 09:51 PM
Chances are if most atheists had an OBE they probably wouldn't be atheists because they would have something forward to look to in the afterlife. They would know it's something more than the physical body they currently have.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 09:53 PM
reply to post by Bigwhammy

Yes, I agree. There is a blueprint in our make-up that has a God element - conscience.

If we look to past history, even my father's time, there was an element of integrity that does not exist as much today. Where a handshake was enough to bond an agreement, we could leave our doors unlocked, and never, or rarely worry about our car doors.

There were always exceptions to the rule, but there were guidelines that most did not cross - many years ago. A morality that is harder to find, today.

I trust mankind far less than I did 30 years ago. It is not paranoia, but reality.

posted on May, 27 2008 @ 10:35 PM
reply to post by canadianbadboy

For me, I told my mother that I was a very spiritual person and she asked me what religion I had joined. I said none. She asked me who had me believing what as if some religious leader had warped me into some belief. It's ironic that people cannot believe in a creator separate from religion.

First of all, thank you!

Let me put in my 2c worth.

Religion provides many things (good and bad), two being; structure, and familiarity with the ritual, which both combined; creates - security. It can be healthy, but can also be addictive. The security the religion gives, can be very alluring, and does not necessarily require much from us, devotion being a vital characteristic, whether it be real, or feigned.

If one has an entire family of the same faith, it takes real guts to separate and to possibly ostracize oneself from them. So you are leaving behind comradeship, and possibly; family.

Secondly, we can put a great burden of responsibility on the church, synagogue, temple or congregation, on its pastors, ministers, priests and rabbis. If I could rely on them to dispense accurate knowledge and to oversee everything, it took some of the burden off my shoulders. That in itself, created a dependency to lean on those who were my brothers and sisters in the flock, and those that took the lead in keeping this flock together. The emphasis then, is on those who have the control, verses the one who is in ultimate control...God.

And independent thinking is usually highly discouraged. So in a nutshell, most of us turned our will and the care of our lives, into our leaders, rather than in God. It is no wonder the atheists cannot overall; differentiate between God and religion. Can we blame them?

There are many more points, but these are the ones that stand out.

posted on May, 28 2008 @ 11:03 AM
I guess I remember the exact point in time when I stopped believing in God and Religion more specifically. It was in Western History in highschool. We had just learned about the founding and history Christianity. An immediate question that came to my mind was what happened to all the people's souls who died before Christianity ever came into exhistence. What about all the pagans and multi-thiests that came before? Where they in Hell, Heaven, or somewhere in between.

I asked my mom and see said I shouldn't ask questions like that. I asked my friends and they could care less. I then asked a preacher and he made the assertion that these people get a "free-pass" so to speak because they had never heard God's true words. I had to bite my lip to keep from laughing. It was at this point that I realized all I was taught was total bunk. There has been many more questions that furthered my non-belief, but this was the first I can remember.

I explained to my family that I didn't believe in God and they cried and said I would burn in Hell forever blah blah blah. To this day my wife doesn't allow me to have religious discussions with her. She just gets too upset because she will be in heaven and I am gonna be in hell.

I am a small business owner in a very religious rural town and I fear that if my athiesm ever gets out to the community I will be black balled and lose my business. So I "pretend" to be a believer and hope the facade never breaks. Kind of sucks to live a lie, but my families well being depends on it.

posted on May, 28 2008 @ 11:39 AM
reply to post by The Oak

Oak, it's an interesting story. What it demonstrates is, people have a strong desire to 'belong' in some way, and organized "religion" tends to answer that need. Problem is, these "religions" are like a system of Government...bad government, totalitarian government.

Every individual has a right to believe as they wish, of course. There is something big, in this Universe....I don't know what it is, I reject all organized 'religions' because they each claim to have all the 'answers'...but it is, and should always be, a personal matter, in yourself.

We humans, we are akin to 'Kindergartners' in this Universe. We are only a few several generations away from stone knives and bear skin technologies.....The earth is like the playground, and all we do is squabble over its toys. We need a carton of milk, and naptime!!

posted on May, 28 2008 @ 12:47 PM
reply to post by Conspiriology

Dude, take your nastiness somewhere else.

'Extremophile' is listed at Wikipedia....did you bother to look it up? Or do you hope that your diatribe will go unnoticed???

Yes....I still stand by the last part of what I wrote....religion is dangerous...."Organized" religion is dangerous. They are totalitarian, mostly....not all, but most.

"If you don't believe as the rest of us do, you are a heretic, and must be put to death"

Galileo was sentenced to house arrest for daring to use science!! To suggest that the Earth wasn't the center of the Universe?!? Blasphemy!!!

And this, in the name of a "christian" god?? Ludicrous, immature and idiotic.

Most religions are a system to control, couched in a fear-based litany of services and rites....and the ever-present boogeyman.....HELL! And 'eternal damnation'!!!

Bull. It is nothing more than organized mind-control. MY diatribe off my chest. I'd thank you, Con, to not attempt to ridicule me in the future....makes you look very childish.

posted on May, 28 2008 @ 01:07 PM
reply to post by The Oak

I am a small business owner in a very religious rural town and I fear that if my athiesm ever gets out to the community I will be black balled and lose my business. So I "pretend" to be a believer and hope the facade never breaks. Kind of sucks to live a lie, but my families well being depends on it.

I relate to your text so much! I was part of a huge community of family and friends of the same religion. It was easier for me because I believed in God and still do. But for a long time I could fake it! I couldn't do it forever as my resentment and anger kept seeping out.

I call myself spiritual which can cover a multitude of sins in a religious community. But now I am totally separated from all religion with the exception of those on ATS and some I meet in work.

I wish you the best!

posted on May, 28 2008 @ 01:13 PM
reply to post by weedwhacker

We absolutely agree! Wholeheartedly! The only thing I would add is that the same can be applied to science to a degree.

There seems to be such conflict between the scientific field and its leaders. Some want to hold onto the old ways while others are accepting new information more readily, and then are willing to alter their beliefs. I may not be as adept in keeping up with the latest in science as many of you, but, I do however, keep up a little. I have so many evolutionists and many are atheist around me that I am forced to not be totally ignorant.

posted on May, 28 2008 @ 04:52 PM
I am an atheist because the same "feeling" most religious people have about God existing, I have about he/she/it not existing. I can remember being a small child and having a bad taste in my mouth when talking about God, going to church, or reading The Bible. It never impressed me or touched me in any spiritual way.

It might have been that I just didn't like going through the motions and associated religion with negative thoughts, or it might have been the fact that two of my friends when I was a child were two brothers that were raised as Christian fanatics and always thought "tomorrow was going to be the day the Mouth of Hell opens up and swallows all the non-believers." It might have been any number of things.

The only way I'd change my perception is if I had some insanely profound religious experience that was witnessed by other people around me and couldn't easily be attributed to me going off the deep end.

I guess that makes me more of an agnostic with atheist tendencies. I'm not 100% sure on everything like many atheists tout, but it's going to take more than handing me a book and telling me to have faith.

[edit on 28-5-2008 by davion]

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