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Why are Atheists...Atheists?

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posted on May, 27 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


I absolutely loved that post of yours Andre!! Thanks for showing it again!!
Every single theory you mentioned:

The theory of Electromagnetism
The theory of Atomics ‘
The theory of Gravity
The theory of Heliocentrism

was created by a Christian scientist. So you demonstrated for everyone that the greatest achievements in Science you could come up with, were the result of Christians! We are honored!


Andre when was the Old Testament written? By who? and who was it written to? You have to keep thiose things in mind when you attempt to understand it. Also it was in Hebrew not English - it might not mean what you think it does. It requires some research before you can make a claim. It was also not ever meant to be a science text book for snotty nosed nit pickers. Your way of looking at it is very juvenile and your conclusions are based on poor scholarship.



Don’t worry, the earth going around the sun – it’s only a theory, maybe the bible’s right after all


The Bible makes no mention of the earth not going around the sun.
So these two verses do not even mention the sun at all. This was not intended to be an astronomy lesson.



1 Chronicles 16:30: The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.

Psalm 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.



Let me ask you Andre are you strong enough to move the Earth? no
This what meant for the mind of an ancient Hebrew. And it is completely accurate. Ever heard the phrase "I need to get my feet back on the ground" or "I'm on solid ground" . This is the sort of adolescent behavior exposes your obsession.



The bible says it took god six days to create the earth, even if god created the earth 4.5 billion year ago, it still took longer then six days for the earth to form. “a fourth day. 20 And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures…” Even if it somehow took god 6 days to create the earth 4.5 billion years ago, the bible says on the 4th day there were already living things (contradicts reality)....

How long ago is irrelevant but the fact that it says six days means it took 6 actual days – that is a time frame…. a time frame that cannot possibly exist


The Hebrew word that gets translated day is not necessarily a 24 hour day but an indefinite period of time. Plus how long was a day before the sun? You just criticize what you do not understand - in a very dumb way- with out doing any research or serious study. Your skepticism is misplaced.

Here get an education.
Science of God


And how old is the earth and how do you really know that? Aren't you just taking a scientists word for it? Again the Bible makes no cliam on the age of the earth. There are some Christians that do. They are not the majority. And so what if they do. They could even be right. Quite frankly it doesn't affect my life in slightest how old the earth is. Bottom line - you have no point to discredit the Bible with - just another cry for attention.

And you are getting it. It's Ok andre.

Andre I am taking time to respond to you. I know that is what you are after. You want Christians to pay attention to you son. We are. I pray for every day Andre.



Mr Ghost created the big bang – thus all evidence points to Mr Ghost as the creator of the universe……


Because everything came into existence after The Big Bang. The Big Bang created the laws of physics - and nature. That is definition of supernatural.

I choose to call the supernatural creator of the universe God out of respect for his power.

If you want to choose to call him "Mr Ghost" in disrespect do so to your own peril. After all that is your religion isn't it?

I'll keep praying for you son. I used to be a bit like you before I was saved. I know you spend a lot of time thinking about God that is obvious to everyone Andre. That usually means he has his eye on you. He's working on you right now. Did you know that C.S. Lewis started out an Atheist? The Apostle Paul used to kill Christians and then he ended up writing most of the New Testament. Many great Christians start that way. I think it is your destiny Andre. That explains all the threads and your obsession. God has his mark on you.


[edit on 5/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]




posted on May, 27 2008 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Yosimitie Sam
I am so sick of atheists and there superior crapola. I think I am an agnostic leaning toward a believer. The scientific, logical, and historical evidence for God is good. I just just haven't met him yet. Well from what I have observed. Atheism is most certainly a religion and I guess a mental problem at the same time. Atheists spend as much if not more time discussing God than religious people do. It's just they are full of confusion and hatred. I saw on discovery channel that Doctors now believe that Atheism is caused by a bad childhood.

For instance did you guys even see the irony of this guys post?


Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer

To be perfectly honest that whole paragraph is ONE big paragraph of contrediction.


After he accused Matrix of contradictions, he finishes off with...


Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
i am an athiest and i beleive in god, i just dont follow a religion.


Now contradiction like that takes the atheist mindset!

Obsessed with something you hate and don't belive exists now thasts mental illness.


athiests dont follow religion, this doesnt mean we cant beleive that there is a god, just because i dont worship him doesnt mean he doesnt exist.

please dont have a go at me when all im doing is defending who i am.
i as an athiest i have never prosecuted any religous person for any particular reason.

if you check in my topics you will see i started a thread aimed at proving to everyone that there is clear evidence of his existence.

as i said before i am an athiest and i beleive that there is a god, but i dont follow a religion.

wether it be because i dont want to be prosecuted or because i dont want to worship him it doesnt matter, what matters is that i dont prosecute but i do get a bit miffed when someone purposely makes a thread to lure in those of us who arent exactly very wise, just to make a point.

yes there are those of us athiests that dont even know the true meaning of an athiest, but that is the same for every group of people.

there will allways be those who dont follow the social structure.

for example....welsh priests....need i say more?



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Seriously people wtf

Atheism is not a belief system, if being an atheist is being in a religion then simply not believing in Zeus is being religious. How does not believing in something make it a religion?


[edit on 27-5-2008 by andre18]


No Atheism is a theism, just without a God, everything you guys DO is religious, you haggle over Christianity more than Christians do. Your Athest websites are preoccupied with the topic of what?

Christians and Cristianity thats what.

you are not Unbelievers, you're disbelievers.

You have your dogma, your arrogance, your self righteous attitudes your zealots and your preachers. You have your hipocrites too if you want to abide by the law only when it suits you than ignore what the courts say and we will ignore what they say about separation powers. You can't have it both ways.

By the way Andre, if it were Zeus we believed in, than you would be busy actively disbelieving in Zeus. You aren't the antithesis of religion, you are merely anti religion but a religion in your own right. You choose not to believe in God because you don't want to believe in God and you prove that with every post. You and your Atheist buddy there who says he doesn't lie ever lie no not ever makes one every time he says with the right hand, he is the universe and with the left says he is a part of the universe. If that is true than he is a part of me and we are one so everything I am he is and everything I represent, represents him. If he disagrees with that than he has lied once again for out of his own mouth came that testimony.

He can no more separate himself from me if I am the universe than I him so it sounds like this universe if I am the same one he is and he is the same one I am is in a bit of a quandry for the universe matters not.

Matter can not be destroyed?

Matter can be anhilated and that is the magic of anti-matter.
Anti-matter is the area of your arguments that anihilate it and make the idea of a universe separate from the anti universe. You can't very well call something infinite where time and space exist for one simple reason smart guy.

Infinity has no begining but add the construct of time and you now have a time something began where eternity makes time irrelevant

That is the point kiddies, the universe doesn't mean a damn thing because the universe simply doesn't matter. Physics doesn't say Jack Squat guy because Physics doesn't hold an opinion, PEOPLE do so if you are so inclined to talking to physics, than why does Physics tell us NOTHING at all?

Ill tell you why.

Physics can't that's why, so spare us the typical atheist sciobabble, lies and circular semantics so the false witness Matrix can put her Pom poms away along with her hipocrisy. Answers like "it's obvious that's why" and the most flagrant use of intentional ambiguity to explain your positions I have heard yet.

If anyone were to take you seriously we would have no need to explore the universe simply because WE ARE the universe, and if that were the case, than time and space would be all of us too. If I am one with you as the universe and we can be evil and good but also neither, since it is I and not the Universe who makes that distinction through me and of the universe than what lies I have made are your lies too so saying you never lie is a lie indeed. What God I believe in is a "thing" and if your "thing" is a thing nevertheless than so is mine. Since you have no God for me to believe in, I guess that makes us one with the God I believe in as we are all one with the universe.

You are me and I am you and we are the Universe and the Universe

is us, as we, as one.


Yeah that's some of the most hilariously funny "stuff" I have seen from religious atheists to this day.

What a bunch a cosmic crap

- Con



[edit on 27-5-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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HYPOCRISY OF ATHEISM



Almost every religion attempts to establish a 'spirit of the law', but atheism seeks to destroy the spiritual. In doing so, it chips away at the very thing that allows a good and ordered society to exist. The atheist is taking the morality of mankind for granted, unwisely forgetting the influence that religion has had in creating the culture in which he now lives. It isn't that atheists haven't any morals, but that they have no logical reason for having a preferable set of ethics.

Let's say that you find yourself stranded forever on a deserted island with one other individual. This other person is frail and of no practical use for your mutual survival. He is a loud mouth, an instigator, and he eats a lot. He even steals some of your food and the food supply is scarce. He's totally defenseless and a nuisance. Give a logical reason for not killing him.

An atheist criticizes a Christian for having an illogical belief in God, yet he can produce no logical reason for not killing this man. He can try to give a reason such as, "He is my genetic brother," but this doesn't stand up to logic. Why would it be wrong to kill your genetic brother? There is no logical reason, but you can see the atheist trying to give a spiritual reason. He is actually resorting to the 'brotherhood of man' as a reason not to kill this man. This is a spiritual reason, not a logical one. On the other hand, a Christian can simply use his 'illogical belief in God' to provide a very logical reason for not killing the man; "My Lord tells me to love him. My Lord wouldn't approve of me killing him." An atheist can't defend his own illogical belief without being a hypocrite when he criticizes belief in God as illogical.
www.ex-atheist.com...



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Richard.M.J.Palmer
 



being an athiest means you dont belong to or beleive in any religion, you can still beleive there is a god if you want, please research what your talking about before making such Bold statements.


This is interesting! I am not sure I have heard this before - quite this way. I am being respectful while saying it. If you are right, then that could make me an atheist according to your definition. I am not religious and am against religion, but I most definitely have a relationship with God.

Well, I don't go by any labels so I will go along as I have, and I have always considered atheism a religion, albiet, a rebellious one perhaps.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by realshanti
 


I guess I missed the harlot part? Or perhaps it was said by an ignored person?


Remember - irreverence is your birthright - use it liberally and often....


Yes, I am the queen of irreverence! I found a fellow comrade! I am also surrounded by ones in my real life.


[edit on 27-5-2008 by MatrixProphet]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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Im Atheist, yet im a buddhis.. why? Buddhism is simply put, a more relaxing and less stressed out morality trip. I dont believe in the whole god thing, like most people dont believe in ghosts(not saying they are dead, just something there thats unexplained) or in Ligers, which both are very well documented, Ligers of course EVERYONE knows about.. they arnt some kind of secret or crypto
that are straight up real. Though God? S/he/it just doesnt make sense, I respect the bible and everyone's choices but I think of it all in a few ways

1. Bible is a religious history book and nothing more. Giving outlines of life and how you "could/should" be, as well as events in the past

2 God is a "figure" not a being or anything real, just the empty decision of.. We dont know so we will label it with something.

I dont think they meant some divine figure created everything in the sense we take it, they wanted to label something they didnt know... and it got taken out of proportion by stoners and wise men with senility (sorry if thats offensive but I said stoners because a guy was talk to a flaming bush... I know a lot of friends who do drugs who talk to their bush and think its on fire.)

With that I apologize if I offended, just wanted to put out something "new"



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 12:37 PM
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Why are Athiests ....Athiests??


simple.....religous texts are written by people....people intent on controlling other people.

Science has given us knowledge.

Anyone know what an 'extemeophile' is???

Let me help you break it down....'extreme', you all know....'phile' is Greek for life....

An 'extremophile' is a lifeform that exists in conditions we would not normally associate as conducive to 'life'......yet, there is life, on our own planet.....right under our noses, if you care to look!!!!!!

Did a 'god' create all of this???? Did some imagined 'god' create our Galaxy???? Did this same, alleged 'supreme being', create the whole Universe????

Step out of your little shells, the shells you were written into....by PEOPLE!!!!

If you wish to know god....it is not written in a book...not the bible, nor the koran, nor the old testament.....your god is in you....NOT in a book!!!!

I am not a preacher....I hate all religions, because they turn peole into sheep....look inside. Don't use some mass hype....use your own intellect.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


hello Weed.

Ive been outside this so calle dshell and i was in another shell, like you

who is blind???

david



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy


HYPOCRISY OF ATHEISM




An atheist criticizes a Christian for having an illogical belief in God, yet he can produce no logical reason for not killing this man.


Bull. There's a perfectly good reason and it's called empathy and it's an emotion that every human has to one degree or another, save, perhaps, sociopaths.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


No, you see. Athiests have no set practice of ways, we are free to live and do whatever we want.

Someone making a website that is about Christianity may indeed be an Athiest, but the great perspective about this is, being an athiest simply means that you're a Human Being of the universe with no attachments to any institution (we only call ourselves ahtiests so you theists get the picture, otherwise we wouldn't need a name; Human will suffice.). Therefore these individuals are no more than Human Beings, such as yourself, making websites about Christianity.

It's not athiesm that has a problem with Christianity, it's Humanity that has a problem with it.

Humans live and die. You, Christians, are not Humans, we are mere mortals whereas you are eternal.

It's not an athiest thing, it's a psychological thing and a genus thing, but afterall, like the Jews, you're higher than us.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
athiests dont follow religion, this doesnt mean we cant beleive that there is a god, just because i dont worship him doesnt mean he doesnt exist.


No, Richard.

An athiest believes in no God and in no Gods. What you are explaining is an Agnostic. There are no such things as confused Athiests. You're either a thiest or an Athiest.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Since I can't say God bless you -- well --

Good luck with that!


I don't need luck and I don'ty need the blessing of God, that is for the desperate. Sit in the cock pit and fly, open your eyes.

Prayer and blessings of God may emotionally make an individual feel good. To an Athiest it means nothing. We are highly intellectual and highly logical.

The law of the land is created by... none other than theists, most of them hardcore Christians. So it's no wonder that they would attempt to Call atheism a religion.

In some aspect we can call everything a religion, life is a practice of ways and skills, but it's certainly not an institutionalized crazed religion; that's just the religion.

A true Athiests simply lives life. Your religion preaches to not judge. The most judgemental people in the world are Christians as evidenced throughout this entire thread.

Go back a few pages. Remember where I put your God in check-mate? For some reason you've stopped that whole line of thinking. Was it too logical for you? Was finding the little pictures and beginning a satirical religious flame fest against me the only resort?

*picks up the banana peels and hides from the poo slinging*

Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh!

You know who originally created this country? Athiest and Agnostic cannabis farmers
Not Christians.

And now you've resorted to other people for fighting your battles, and even they fail! Please, what have YOU got to offer? So far it has not stodd up to any scrutiny. If I were you I'd attempt to take fallible external links representing nothing more than some old power driven senial old man's rants as well. It'd be just as good as my own!

[edit on 27-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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I have read through the posts on this thread, and have yet to see any significant representation of any religious belief system being actually authenticated with any tangible evidences and/or facts to hold any basis for the argument.
The people that are Christians that are posting are very comfortable with throwing quotes and ideologies of their belief systems as a basis for them being the facts that prove anything. I don't know why, the original OP was on the determination of finding out why atheists are atheists, not wanting to wage the facts of Christianity or any other religion, but here we go again!
Like I have said before, on page three of this thread, "I am a self proclaimed atheist." I had no one to persuade me into a decisions or any kind of justification to the facts there is no omnipotent creator other than there is a more comfortable place to be than where I currently reside with my self analogies of who I am.
Though this thread has seemed to draw a lot of attention, it has remained quite civil and respectful, but it should be drawn to an end. There are too many arguments for both sides to resolve any true disclosure to the advent of where or what we truly are.
There is a common link between us all, we are all of the same Geno-pool. Intelligent and responsive to our surrounding's with acceptance to the rule of self analogies and perceptions, I for one will not be posting again on this matter, it should be dropped for lack of logical acceptances of either side.
Andrea,
You have legitimate disagreements, but yet have anything of true proof of anything. It is all speculation for the religious community. Nothing more, nothing less. Your belief systems are stemmed from a pre-empted up bringing of believing in nothing less.
Bigwhammy,
You have continually tried the same reference's of being correct to no avail of anything more than what you were programmed to believe in since you had converted or what you were taught to believe. I am not knocking your faith, but it is and still remains nothing I want a part of.

Further more, I am an atheist, I don't care what happens when the time comes, all I know is that with my current understanding of self, I am in a good place and have no regrets for who I am. And that's that!!
Pound us atheists all you want, because a true atheist, if there were such thing's as false prophets and the like, it would lead me too think you are not satisfied with your own individual lives and therefore have to push your realities on other persons to make or allow yourselves to feel better as individuals for a belief system none of you can authenticate other than defend by words and justifications of self gain or possible a feeling of grandiosity for you too feel better for having done so.

Have a good MatrixProphet, don't think the answers are ever going to relegated into any proof's, but I will tell you, we are out here, us atheists, and if there was anytime of people needing 10% of any tithing, it would be the people that are currently destitute and knocked to the lower levels of societal acceptances.
If you ever get there, let me know what 'God' does for you.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Conspiriology
No Atheism is a theism, just without a God...


Duhhhh...


*starts growing ape hair and babboon butt* *makes howling monkey cries and screams*

Are we understanding each other yet? Wait, let me try again. *flails arms up in the air straight up from side to side and shows teeth while making high pitched primate screetches*


the·ism:
–noun 1. the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism).
2. belief in the existence of a god or gods (opposed to atheism).



a·the·ism
–noun 1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


Do you know what a theism without a God is? It's Atheism! That means it's the opposite of theism!

So Once again, Fahling is wrong! It's not the opposite of religion, it's the opposite of Theism!


*Starts charging 2 dollars per visit to the zoo*


you are not Unbelievers, you're disbelievers.


It's the same thing man! I'm an unbeliever because I disbelieve! I disbelieve because I'm an unbeliever! Did you guys make it past 3rd grade?! GEEEEEEEEEEZ.
Or is Christianity your educational system?


dis-1
a Latin prefix meaning “apart,” “asunder,” “away,” “utterly,” or having a privative, negative, or reversing force (see de-, un-2); used freely, esp. with these latter senses, as an English formative: disability; disaffirm; disbar; disbelief; discontent; dishearten; dislike; disown.



un-1
a prefix meaning “not,” freely used as an English formative, giving negative or opposite force in adjectives and their derivative adverbs and nouns (unfair; unfairly; unfairness; unfelt; unseen; unfitting; unformed; unheard-of; un-get-at-able), and less freely used in certain other nouns (unrest; unemployment).


*takes the sociology book away from the ants*

Grow UP and EVOLVE. Your intellects in this thread are evidence that we came from monkeys and yet you don't believe in Darwinism. Put the banana down and pick up a dictionary.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Allred5923
 



Have a good MatrixProphet, don't think the answers are ever going to relegated into any proof's, but I will tell you, we are out here, us atheists, and if there was anytime of people needing 10% of any tithing, it would be the people that are currently destitute and knocked to the lower levels of societal acceptances.
If you ever get there, let me know what 'God' does for you.


Actually, if I told you some of my experiences - you wouldn't believe them. There is little you can mention that I have not experienced, including the above. I have been rich and very poor. I have said many times to individuals; "It is easy to be spiritual when everything is going well. Try it when you lose everything!"

I don't know if you will read this, but thanks for coming back! We do not have to agree but I respect your conviction!!!!!!!! That is one thing we do have in common.

Note: to all atheists - I am not threatened by your stance, more power to you. Each of us when the day is done, needs to feel comfortable in our skin. If we aren't, then that can be an opportunity to question, and to see what doors open. Isn't that the way of true intellectuals, or those who are searching?

[edit on 27-5-2008 by MatrixProphet]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 



If you wish to know god....it is not written in a book...not the bible, nor the koran, nor the old testament.....your god is in you....NOT in a book!!!!

I am not a preacher....I hate all religions, because they turn peole into sheep....look inside. Don't use some mass hype....use your own intellect.


It is a spiritual relationship with our higher power that does not need formalization.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by Jadette
 


Let's use reason together shall we?



Bull. There's a perfectly good reason and it's called empathy and it's an emotion that every human has to one degree or another, save, perhaps, sociopaths.



Thank you Jadette, you just proved that atheism is false!

Why does -as you just said- every human have a sense of right and wrong? Let us consider where that comes from Jadette?

But morality is more than an emotion. The emotion just clues us into to the morality. If you do something wrong - you feel guilty. If you see someone who needs help - you feel empathy. But your emotion did not create the morality - it was a response to it. We do not create morality, we discover it. Morality is burned into our conscience.

What you need to wrap your mind around is that there is an absolute objective standard of morality. You can not explain that in darwinian terms.

Here's an illustration:

~~~~~~~~ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

which line is straighter?

The first because it is closer to the absolute standard of a straight line which you know is this :
_________________________________________________


Now if there was no absolute objective standard for straightness then the question would be meaningless.

Jadette, this is exactly the same thing you do when you compare the behavior of Mother Theresa and Adolf Hitler. You appeal to an absolute moral standard: The Moral Law. The moment you say one set of moral ideas is better than another it is because you are comparing both to a standard. Just like the line - logically there must be a "real" morality or you have NO basis to make a judgment by. If the moral law does not exist then there is no difference between the behavior of Hitler and Mother Theresa. It's just ones preference. Thank God we all know better! Because there is an objective standard, that standard is written on our hearts.

In summation, I think a reasonable person will concede that every law has a law giver. I have demonstrated by pure reason there has to be a Moral Law. Please consider that:

1. Every law has a law giver.
2. There is a moral law
3. Therefore there is a moral law giver.
Q.E.D.

Remember Jadette you said "that every human has to one degree or another,."

Who else but GOD could it write on the hearts of all of humanity?



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


If morality is handed down from God, then why do different cultures represent different values? Why is it okay to kill babies in one culture and wrong in another?

That's a very black and white way of looking at it. I think you are not giving enough credit to the human psyche and our ability to learn. I'm sure if we wanted to we could raise an entire civilization of people who think that raping women is okay, murdering people for money is normal, and euthanizing the handicap is correct.

Hence the phrase, "Get 'em young".


[edit on 27-5-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 


Hey Sublime! That is a really good question and I have thought about it in detail as well. Believe me the moral law does not change. Peoples perceptions of the ethical dilemmas they are judging do.

For instance people used to burn witches. Now we don't. Did the moral law change. No. People used to believe witches murdered people and destroyed crops by cursing them. We no longer believe that hence we no longer burn witches. We still believe murder and destroying crops is wrong we just don;t believe witches do it anymore. Make sense?

Because people interpret the facts surrounding a particular issue does not change the objective moral standard.

So where is it ok to kill babies? No where subby! That's why pro choice people have to force themselves to believe that life doesn't start a certain number of weeks - or they would be guilty of murder.

Everyone knows killing innocent children is wrong - so to kill babies - you have to convince yourself they aren't human.

Even Hitler knew killing Jews was wrong. That's why he dehumanized them and called them an inferior race.

Also just because there is a standard doesn't mean everyone keeps it. Obviously not. But we still know killing and stealing are morally wrong. But we could not recognize wrong if there was not a right.









[edit on 5/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]



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