Catcheing, timing and Survival Retreats/Base (UK)

I've just started stockpiling but need to work out some numbers and start getting my daily needs figured into the logistics chain.

So far I've got 40 kg of rice and about 6kg of canned meat (spam and corned beef) stored.
It cost me about £60 or $120 for that lot. I can see the price of food climbing in the next 6 months so I'll be making building up my supplies from now on, by Autumn 2008 I'll of hopefully gotten hooked together with some other like-minded folk and we can look into catcheing and seeing where the best survival retreats / bases are.
Not much food but enough for a short term but a start.
I don't mind if there never is a SitX cause I can start eating it periodically and rotating it in with fresh supplies when I go camping etc.
Still it pays to be prepared, especially in these uncertain times.

I'll be looking for some small gas canisters to buy as well. Firewood gathering is cool but will soon strip the nearby areas over time.

To be totally happy I'll be setting a target of about 400kg of rice, 100 kg of canned meat and a small supply of potted/bottled water. Plus all the other supplies.
I don't know how long that will last but it'll be nice to know that I won't go hungry

Final steps are a decent catche location to store the stuff,

And, hopefully, a friendly base / fort that me and a select few survivalists can hole up in when SitX hits, dimishes or foraging becomes an option.

A decent location - Not too far from the catche and not too much effort to get the food into.

It could be an option to stock-pile directly into the base then you can just roll up with you and your buddies and make yourselves at home.

Trust - Not turning on each other while gathering in the supply catches

Timing - Going in too soon could mean you are overreacting and missing other opportunities in life. Too late and you could be killed or injured before you can make it out of there.
Could there be anything more annoying and fustrating to know that you 'nearly' made it but are stuck in some internment camp or worse.
Worse case scenario could be that you are grilled for your catche / base location by 'those in charge'...
So ideally slightly before, as opposed to during SitX, should be aimed for.

I've been having similar thoughts for a while.
My thinking is, we're gonna have to get well away from sources of population, as in, well away from even small towns..

something like the scottish highlands would be ideal.. but then theres the whole survival thing.
I wouldn't want to brave a winter under the stars up there.

But if your needing members for a survival group, I'd be interested. Everyone I mention it to thinks I'm either completely mental or a complete idiot

As far as locations go, I've started research on coal mines in the two locations I've scouted-out so far here in W.Yorkshire and in N.Tyneside, both historically coal-mining ares.

Whilst they may have been capped and/or flooded when they were closed down, making them inaccessible, there will invariably be slag-heaps nearby where you could scavenge useable coal from as a primary heat-energy source

As for food stockpiles, as I was feeding the moggy earlier I tried some of his biscuits ( ) to see if they could be a viable hi-energy food source, here's what the blurb says on the back of the box:

Protein 29%
Oil 9%
Fibre 2%
Ash 8.5%
Copper (as copper sulphate) 10mg/Kg
Vitamin A 12000iu/Kg
Vitamin C 150mg/Kg
Vitamin D3 1200iu/Kg
Vitamin E 150mg/Kg

I think this needs a thorough scientific investigation...how would a human cope living on a diet of cat-biscuits for 1 week?

reply to post by WatchRider


WR,

Sounds like you're off to a good start, keep up the good work!

I thought this might come in handy for determining how much in the way of foodstuffs you to store. It doesn't include meats, they leave that up to you based on your dietary preferences.

Storage Calculator

For us Yanks that don't use the metric system, a kg (kilogram) is roughly about 2.2lbs.

Without mentioning too much on your exact location whereabouts in the UK are you.
So far Northern England and the South West are where the people interested in forming Survival Groups so if you.
You're wasting your time with many people who have 9-5 jobs. They sit down after work and with the TV and Computer on have no time to think for SitX or anything.
Anything outside their comfort zone is like a red flag. People who are rich tend to be more open to survivalism but most people in the UK seem to like to be distracted by the whole football religion and weekend bingefests.
It's like being amoung a bunch of frightened rabbits who don't even want to consider anything breaking down or failing.

Originally posted by citizen smith
As far as locations go, I've started research on coal mines in the two locations I've scouted-out so far here in W.Yorkshire and in N.Tyneside, both historically coal-mining ares.

Whilst they may have been capped and/or flooded when they were closed down, making them inaccessible, there will invariably be slag-heaps nearby where you could scavenge useable coal from as a primary heat-energy source

As for food stockpiles, as I was feeding the moggy earlier I tried some of his biscuits (

) to see if they could be a viable hi-energy food source, here's what the blurb says on the back of the box:

Protein 29%
Oil 9%
Fibre 2%
Ash 8.5%
Copper (as copper sulphate) 10mg/Kg
Vitamin A 12000iu/Kg
Vitamin C 150mg/Kg
Vitamin D3 1200iu/Kg
Vitamin E 150mg/Kg

I think this needs a thorough scientific investigation...how would a human cope living on a diet of cat-biscuits for 1 week?

Interesting, the coal mines are worth a look but to me they offer only one way in and one way out. Also they aren't typically 'hidden' and could see and exodus of hungry and violent mouths heading their way...
If fortified though, they could be useful...

Originally posted by WatchRider
most people in the UK seem to like to be distracted by the whole football religion and weekend bingefests.

Thats incredibly true, particularly in small, now run-down ex-industrial towns between Manchester and Liverpool. Which is where I hail from.
Heck, I swear to whatevers up there that I'm the only person for miles around whos in the slightest bit worried.

And as far as shelters go, I wouldn't look for one in my area. Theres countryside, aye, but your never more then 3 or 4 miles from concentrated areas of population.

Originally posted by selfisolated
Theres countryside, aye, but your never more then 3 or 4 miles from concentrated areas of population.

Unfortunately for us in the UK that's pretty much what we've got to contend with...sprawling city suburbs with only a few miles of green inbetween.

Anywhere else such as the Lake District, and most of the Welsh and Scottish lowlands will become refugee camps to millions from the surrounding cities...

I can't see that happening unless the cities get nuked and there wouldn't be many people left to take up space in the Nat. Parks etc.
Nuclear warfare aside refugees in the National Parks and lowlands sounds a bit debatable in SitX, the logistics, fuel etc for moving that number of people and the chaos in SitX would make it a no brainer.
But if that's the case then we'd need to be very careful with our food catches. Someone mentioned that in the states someone found a survivalist arms catche.

I think with the exception of the Peak District I think the authorities would probably make use of the numerous stadiums and large open areas near to the population centers.

There's plenty of land between the cities to set up refugee camps if the cities became uninhabitable, if places like the lake district were used that would mean a major disaster would have occured where most of the country was in ruins (I would think about bailing from the UK!).

WatchRider I like your ideas on cacheing equipment and supplies, anyone wanting to do this would have to seriously consider where to place them, it could mean life or death and there would be nothing worse than finding your cache dug up by timmy the treasure hunter or who ever.

I know where your coming from selfisolated, Im feel the same way, unless its to do with football or how many vodkas there gonna down at the weekend people just dont wanna know.

Hey citizen smith youve probably been round my area if youve been looking for coal mining, I'm from an old mining village, there used to be literally tons of coal lying round the fields where I live, sadly in the last 10 years Wimpey and Bellway homes have set up housing estates on all of it so theres virtually no coal left (theres still some but not 1/10th as much as there use to be), I'm half expecting to see some of the houses disappear down old mine shafts!

Essentially the catcheing (as I see it) could be done like this:

Stage 1 Stockpile enough for a supply run

Stage 2 Identify a Survival Retreat / Base Location and, if possible a back-up location.

Stage 3 Identify good catche sites around the location and stake them out for a few days to see who is who that is around.

Stage 4 Set up camp and start catcheing


[edit on 23-5-2008 by WatchRider]

Funny this should pop up actually.

I was searching for freeze dried supplies etc and came across more than one site who could only fill your order in..

4-8 week DUE TO WORLD FOOD SHORTAGES..

How much of an eye-opener is that????

SHIPPING NOTE: Do to current market conditions, food shortages worldwide and limited supplier allocations, orders will ship in approximately 3 to 7 Weeks from receipt and will be shipped in the order we receive them. Your charge card WILL NOT be charged until just before shipping.
Thanks you for your patience!

www.nitro-pak.com...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Just a Random site as an eg...


Not so much of a game anymore..

Watchrider,

I think you've made a great start with your stockpiling, however I think you need to look at your nutritional requirements otherwise your not going to be able to cope with all the physical work required in sitx.

The rice is good for carbs.

The tinned meat will give you protein and fat.

What about vitamins, salt, sugar, calcium, minerals and fibre?

Without fibre you will become seriously constipated which can cause excrutiating pain, never mind the piles which will plague you for years.

Vitamin C has to be considered an essential - without it you will develop scurvy. Include some ascorbic acid powder in your stores, a quarter of a teaspoon disssolved in water will see you right.

Include dried beans and lentils in your stores. Apart from the vitamins, minerals and fibre they provide, they are a good source of carbs, but if mixed with other carbs such as rice will also provide protein - which is how those veggies out there manage to stay healthy.

For calcium you need fish, milk, cheese or eggs. Tins of fish in oil are not only a great source of calcium but will feed your brain and keep it working well, plus you get the fats you need from the oil. You can buy dried milk which although bulky is not heavy. If you buy tinned milk, get condensed milk, it will go much further than evaporated when diluted with water, plus will provide essential sugars. Cheese is harder to store long term, although finely grated hard cheese, such as parmesan, has quite a long shelf life and I suspect, like most things, will last much longer than the sell by date if its stored well. Eggs, well you can buy dried egg and, although bulky would provide a great source of protein as well as calcium.

The freeze dry company mentioned earlier does a good range of fruits (I've bought some from them) and they are very good indeed. These will give you vitamins, fibre, minerals and sugars.

Now for water. If water supplies are not contaminated, you can soak and cook all your dried foods without problems, with the advantage that they will absorb large amounts of the water, thus contributing to your daily requirement. If however you don't have access to water, your pretty much stuffed unless you have plenty of tinned fruit and veg. To work out how much water you need, work out your body weight in lbs, divide by 2, and that is the amount of water you need to drink in ozs. Twenty ozs of water equals a pint. Twenty percent of our water comes from our food, so you can take that off, but add on an extra pint for every hour of physical exercise. Then make an allowance for heat - I work in a very hot kitchen and I drink pints of water. Remember that if you are feeling thirsty then you are already dehydrated! If you are dehydrated you need to drink water with sugar and salt added to replace those already lost by your body.

I know that throughout history people have survived for long periods on very poor diets, and many still do. But if the S# hits the fan it will be survival of the fittest, both physically and mentally, and essential nutrients will give you that edge.

Remember the story of the two guys camping, and one puts his boots on before going to sleep. They other chap ask him why and he says, in case a bear attacks in the night. They other chap says but you'll never outrun a bear even with boots on, and he replies "I don't need to outrun the bear - I only need to outrun you!"

Cheers

I think people are missing something big in terms of food stashing...

I mean, its all well and good storing tinned and dried foods, its a great idea. But I think as well, we should learn whats readily edible in nature. I'm guessing theres a lot of stuff you wouldn't think of. Simple traps to catch small animals, even nuts and berries - which are an excellent source of vitamins - what I'm saying is I think people should place more emphasis on foraging, because at the end of the day, every creature comfort we have now wouldn't be there if SitX was that bad.
And as for the future of the species? We'd have to teach our kids wouldn't we? No good saying to them, well we eat food out of tins but you're gonna have to find summat else, cos then they'd be in trouble. We'd have to learn to live like its the stone age again.
Cos thats exactly what its gonna be, IF and when it happens

reply to post by selfisolated



www.pfaf.org...

Exactomundo..


The back garden is a good place to start..
Wanna get rid of those nettles and dandelions?

Mmmmm ..Taraxacum officinale salad...

A very nutritious food, 100g of the raw leaves contain about 2.7g. protein, 9.2g. carbohydrate, 187mg Calcium, 66mg phosphorus, 3.1mg iron, 76mg sodium, 397mg potassium, 36mg magnesium, 14000iu vitamin A, 0.19mg vitamin B1, 0.26mg vitamin B2, 35mg vitamin C[173].

Feeling under the weather??

The plant is used internally in the treatment of gall bladder and urinary disorders, gallstones, jaundice, cirrhosis, dyspepsia with constipation, oedema associated with high blood pressure and heart weakness, chronic joint and skin complaints, gout, eczema and acne[238]. The plant has an antibacterial action, inhibiting the growth of Staphylococcus aureus, Pneumococci, Meningococci, Bacillus dysenteriae, B. typhi, C. diphtheriae, Proteus etc[176]

Urtica dioica..

Nettles are a very valuable addition to the diet[244], they are a very nutritious food that is easily digested and is high in minerals (especially iron) and vitamins (especially A and C)[4, 201, 238]. Only use young leaves (see the notes above on toxicity) and wear stout gloves when harvesting them to prevent being stung. Cooking the leaves, or thoroughly drying them, neutralizes the sting, rendering the leaf safe to eat

Allergic to nature?

A tea made from the leaves has traditionally been used as a cleansing tonic and blood purifier so the plant is often used in the treatment of hay fever, arthritis, anaemia etc[254]. The whole plant is antiasthmatic, antidandruff, astringent, depurative, diuretic, galactogogue, haemostatic, hypoglycaemic and a stimulating tonic

Who's worried?

Good Post Maya, I intent to include Vit Pills and Beans too.

I like the equation for the water requirements, never seen that way of doing it before

1* for you

Originally posted by WatchRider
Good Post Maya, I intent to include Vit Pills and Beans too.

Methinks along with my famous dandelion,wild turnip and sprout casserole,beans could be the catalyst required

Oh yeah.. and a 50m 'exclusion zone' between survivor group bedding..

Selfisolated,

I'm with you on trapping/foraging. I spent my childhood roaming the woods and fields and would eat whatever I could find to prevent hunger driving me home before bedtime! But without any facility to store or preserve food you will find you have very slim pickings come the winter, so storing food is essential. We more or less lived off what we could grow in the garden, (apart from dairy, bread and meat) but it will take you at least a year of hard work to get a garden producing enough to live off, and you will need to plan it carefully so that you can harvest crops all year round. A years worth of food stored now, plus enough heirloom seeds to fill your garden, plus replenish if your crops are destroyed by disease, are, imo, essential. Oh, and you'll need tools and water butts as well - no point in planting your seeds for them just to die because of no rain.

My main reason for not planning to head for the hills is simply that, although much less densely populated, ergo less competition for food and less danger from others, the reason these areas are so wild is because it is much harder to live there.

I rate our chances of survival much higher staying put, with 4 solid walls around us, and enough garden to grow enough food to support us. Compared to a cold damp structure in the woods, susceptible to attack by fire, with no decent land to cultivate, my home wins out every time.

Btw, vitamin pills are all well and good in the short term, but when they run out you will need to know what your body needs to keep it fit and healthy. Much simpler I think to rely on storing the right foods in the first place.

Good nutrition is the key to survival in any situation, including everyday living. A well balanced diet is essential. The diet must also be made up of food groups that are easy and efficient for your body to absorb and convert to energy.

A balanced diet contains six key nutrient groups that are required in appropriate amounts for health. These groups are outlined below.

• Proteins are involved in growth, repair and general maintenance of the body.
• Carbohydrates are usually the main energy source for the body.
• Lipids or fats are a rich source of energy.
• Vitamins are important in a range of biochemical reactions.
• Minerals are important in maintaining ionic balances and many biochemical reactions.
• Water is crucial to life. Metabolic reactions occur in an aqueous environment and water acts as a solvent for other molecules to dissolve in.

A deficiency of any one type of nutrient can lead to disease, starvation (or
dehydration in the case of water) and subsequent death. Fibre is a component of food that is not nutritious but is important to include in our diet. Fibre or roughage is non-digestible carbohydrate and it has an important role in aiding the movement of food through the gut.
There is also an absolute requirement for some specific molecules in the diet. This is because, although the body can manufacture most of the molecules it needs, some essential molecules cannot be made by the body. These molecules are called essential nutrients, and must be supplied in the diet, for example lysine and methionine, which are essential amino acids.

Other components of the human diet are not nutrients at all, as they do not
perform the functions of producing energy or promoting growth and repair, but are eaten for other purposes. For example, spices and other flavourings help make food more palatable; tea and coffee drinks provide a good source of water and may also contain other valuable substances such as antioxidants.

Vitamin pills have been mentioned - These are often frowned upon by the medical/nursing profession as a good balanced diet will do the job so much better. It is often said that all that vitamin pills provide is an expensive crap. The best way to take a supplement is in a liquid form, like products such as ''Ensure'', ''Enlive'' or some other 'build-up' product etc etc. These are used quite successfully in NHS Hospitals for undernourished patients.

I have noticed that a lot of you are of the 'run to the hills/countryside' brigade. We in the British Isles are blessed to be surrounded by the most abundant source of free food - the sea. I think i have seen somewhere that we in the UK are never more than 50 miles from the sea, wherever we live. The sea can provide all of the six main food groups - food for thought.

If you want to learn more about nutrition and the human body in general, I recommend a distance learning course run by the Open University - SKN277 Anatomy and Physiology. It wont make you a nurse or a doctor, but you will understand a lot more about yourself.

Well said on the fibre/roughage groove.
Vits are the best friend if a balanced diet isn't available, don't forget that roving about getting the stuff from foraging may be impossible if a bunch of us are holed up somewhere waiting for the coast to clear.

For the bounty of the sea you have to remember that the sea may not be our friend in times of SitX. I don't mean to burst your bubble but I think taking to the seas as fisherfolk isn't all its cracked up to be.
But even if that's not the case then to go at it as fishermen you need a lifestime of experience and to be set up with a boat, nets and a whole panoply of stuff like refigeration and engine maintenance.
I am also hearing that the seas around the UK are over-fished too.
The UK is surrounded by water but the waters are by no means the benevolent seas of the Mediterranean or the Gulf of Mexico and having a week of solid, safe weather at sea is not common.