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Calling occultists/satanists

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
I want only people who are occultists(sp?) or satanists or have messed around with that side. I don't really want to hear from Christians on this one, but are welcome to chime in, I just want to really hear it from the other side.


Occultist here, of the Ceremonial Magick, Thelemic variety.



1) Christians believe demons can't cross over and do harm unto us. But, if they have been banished away from God and can no longer be in the light what is stopping them from raising hell on Earth, I mean if they are not with God then why do they have to follow the rules per say?


That question should be directed to a Christian not an occultist as it presupposes the Christian idea of what a demon is. But from their viewpoint God is all powerfull and can do what he wishes to whom/what he wishes.

Now from the modern occultist point of view, a demon is a part of your mind, a part of your mind that you normally can not control. (Magick is the way you learn to control them) Way back in the sands of time, mankind did not understand how the mind worked. A schizophrenic person was thought to be under the control of demons.

To take a less extream example, lets say there is a person who suffers panic attacks who is being treated by therapy and medication. that is the modern scientific way. The occult method might be to evoke the demon responsible for the panic attacks and comand him to do as we say. (can be related to the modern therapy)

If someone was suffering from pain, maybe they were given a magic potion of willow tea to drive the demon out (Willow was the source of aspirin)




2) Can demons or the devil hear us pray?
3) Do the demons or the devil listen to our thoughts?


Yes.... the demons are you.




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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The Holy Quran which is a Divine Revelation from the Lord God who created all humankind and jinns(evil spirits) will answer your questions.

I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. 51:56 Holy Quran

And the jinn did He create of smokeless fire. 55:15 Holy Quran

And indeed (O Muhammad) individuals of humankind used to invoke the protection of individuals of the jinn, so that they increased them in revolt against Allah); 72:6 Holy Quran

Thus have We appointed unto every prophet an adversary - devils of humankind and jinn who inspire in one another plausible discourse through guile. If thy Lord willed, they would not do so; so leave them alone with their devising; 6:112 Holy Quran


In the day when He will gather them together (He will say): O ye assembly of the jinn! Many of humankind did ye seduce. And their adherents among humankind will say: Our Lord! We enjoyed one another, but now we have arrived at the appointed term which Thou appointedst for us. He will say: Fire is your home. Abide therein for ever, save him whom Allah willeth (to deliver). Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware. 6:128 Holy Quran

And (remember) when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will ye choose him and his seed for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an enemy unto you? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-doers. 18:50 Holy Quran

He saith: Enter into the Fire among nations of the jinn and humankind who passed away before you. Every time a nation entereth, it curseth its sister (nation) till, when they have all been made to follow one another thither, the last of them saith unto the first of them: Our Lord! These led us astray, so give them double torment of the Fire. He saith: For each one there is double (torment), but ye know not. 7:38 Holy Quran

O ye assembly of the jinn and humankind! Came there not unto you messengers of your own who recounted unto you My tokens and warned you of the meeting of this your Day? They will say: We testify against ourselves. And the life of the world beguiled them. And they testify against themselves that they were disbelievers. 6:130 Holy Quran

Say: Verily, though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another. 17:88 Holy Quran

They will say: Be Thou Glorified. Thou (alone) art our Guardian, not them! Nay, but they worshipped the jinn; most of them were believers in them. 34:31 Holy Quran

And if We had so willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me concerning evildoers took effect: that I will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. 32:13 Holy Quran

And We assigned them comrades (in the world), who made their present and their past fairseeming unto them. And the Word concerning nations of the jinn and humankind who passed away before them hath effect for them. Lo! they were ever losers. 41:25 Holy Quran

These are just few instances where jinns are mentioned in this Holy Book...but I hope you will get the general idea...



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


im neither, but satanists dont believe in satan (set). satan is the "manifestation" of saturn.

i do believe in not-so-good/evil spirits that can "take-over" a human body. how? no clue. It is funny that the name Jesus Christ does repell them. Though so do many other names as well.

Someone should start a thread on that. Why do certain "holy" names repell "demons" and are capapble of being used to cast them out?



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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ex humanist sect satanist, ex paganist, ex athiest, now agnostic...

I'm pretty much in agreeance with gnosis111 on this one, however I do believe that ghosts and certain entities act as demons. But, that's my opinion from experience. I honestly can't deny what I've seen with my own eyes or talked to with my own breath.

As far as the native beliefs, I can't deny those either. I do, however, believe that it is all within the individual spirit's intention as to whether a human sees it as demon or friendly. Many people have reported talking to spirits who have warned them about other spirits that are evil.

All in a nutshell: if you leave your front door open all the time, someone you don't want is bound to eventually walk in your house.

As far as the occultist satanists... they are kooks. They do inhuman things and CREATE the evil entities through their sacrifices. If you release a soul from a body with the intention of directing that soul for your bidding, you're gonna get just that... an evil entity. It's just like telling a kid how he's such a bad child, and then saying "See! I was right!" when the kid believes you and grows up like that.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by CzErased



read this interview and inform yourself

www.google.com...

click on the first result i cant get the wiki link to work.


[edit on 23-5-2008 by CzErased]




"Satanism begins with atheism"


Ya don't say,, ha ha. It is rather curious the op would ask for the opinions of anyone other than Christians. I would think you would get a lot of subjective opinions that really have no basis for the Biblical fallen one Satan. I will take that further suggesting Satanists who take issue with what Christians say about Satan is just too bad. Satan just happens to be the very reason for Christianity to have existed and is a talked about to a great extent in scripture.

Since Satan is the adversary of not only Christians but all man kind, you would think it would make more sense to actually encourage response from those who not only believe he exists, but have read as much as Christians do about him.

This doesn't make Christians an authority but it does make them a concerned party. Most Christians might oblige the op's request in just being kind or nice enough to respect the desires of the threads creator, while other may want to correct some erroneous information mentioned about Satan in relation to Christians.

This Christian, however is not interested in what Satanists think they are NOT all about even IF they were or are currently a Satanist. I am interested in telling others what they are really about whether they think they know it or not.

Telling me I have no right to talk about that which I am not affiliated with when your affiliation is the immortal enemy of my Christian brethren, will be met with the very reason I am here to oppose you and what motive for creating such a thread by someone who asks a question about Satan without us knowing what his reasons are for asking.

Is that any of my business?

I don't know yet but it is my calling to as a soldier of light and truth to engage the enemy inspite of requests not too, if that enemy is given a platform for others to ponder his existence as anything less then one who is here to lie cheat steal kill and destroy, for that is,,

the ONLY agenda

he has period

- Con



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 04:53 PM
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As far as occultists goes, remember 'occult' means hidden and occultism is a general name for the dedication to hidden or arcane truths which many believe are behind all true religion.

From what I understand the question of whether devils/demons/satan hear prayers is a redundant question to an occultist.

To boil it down to a simplistic explanation most occult teachings are based on the idea that God/Satan are not personal deities as such. They are moe like a part of human consciousness. It's a subtle distinction I know, but it's not the same as hard core atheism (as it's widely accepted).

Occultists generally believe in a divine creative force, just not one that floats around judging people, or hearing prayers as petitons. Nor is there a bright red man with horns and a flaming pitchfork evesdropping on your prayers.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 11:12 PM
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posted on May, 24 2008 @ 02:04 AM
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LOL a lot of Christians 'chimed in' didn't they.

Before I settled on Buddhism as the one sensible choice amongst the legions of junk religions, I had studied as many different religions as I could learn about in my quest for understanding. In that time for a brief period I was deep into the dark arts.

I was reading books by alaister crowley, books about witchcraft, goetic summoning and all sorts of other taboo subjects of the darker side of religion. I went so far as to construct a rather complex summoning circle and to memorize the goetic rituals used to summon a spirit and to protect myself from it. I went all out. I never got an entity to manifest before my eyes however in my deep meditative state, engaged mentally in the ritual, I reached an interesting state of mind in which I felt a presence seperate from myself. It felt like I had been contacted. I had performed a similar ritual as a teenager with blood sacrifices and everything which also caused this sense of a presence hovering near me. I must have felt like I was bieng watched/followed by a menacing force for a week after that. To me these sensations are very irrational. I don't believe in ghosts or spirits generally. The scientist in me wants to say it was all just a state of mind, self hypnosis or other such things. Still when you have an experience that feels spiritual or paranormal it leaves a lasting impression.

alternately, In one of my deepest meditations, I astrally flew out of my body into space past all the planets out of the galaxy, away from all galaxies, beyond the rim of the known universe into what I experienced as a sort of white beyond, where I was confronted by a hideous creature like some sort of alien insect the size of a planet or bigger, with an uncountable number of eyes each like an infinite pool of wisdom and this hideous creature emited a sound that was terrible beyond imagining yet in my mind it translated into this message of love and god conciousness. pretty freakin wierd for an atheist to experience 'god' as a sort of uber space bug.

So even though Im a deeply rational scientific person, I still feel as if I have personally been in the presence of god and the devil, or entities comperable to the concepts of such biengs. Really all we have is our experiences and its as real as you want it to be because everything is relative. If its real to you then thats all that matters. If you believe in god then god exists.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:08 AM
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The devil isn't omni-present, only God is. He can't see us all the time.
Also, many believe these demons to be only metaphors for temptation and such



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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"I want only people who are occultists(sp?) or satanists or have messed around with that side. I don't really want to hear from Christians"
Thats like saying you want to talk about the Catholic Religion but dont wnt any posts from Catholics,,,,,,carrot on a stick and all that.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by Stu2112
"I want only people who are occultists(sp?) or satanists or have messed around with that side. I don't really want to hear from Christians"
Thats like saying you want to talk about the Catholic Religion but dont wnt any posts from Catholics,,,,,,carrot on a stick and all that.


That just don't add up. If I said I want to talk about God then your argument would hold water. Maybe I should have said, I want to talk to devil worshipers to hear their side. But, I didn't maybe that is what threw people off.

Analogy:

I have heard Bush side on the war on terror. I pose a question and I now only want to hear the Arabs side of the story, not Bush. That way I can make my own decisions and not have to rely on one side of the story.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The devil isn't omni-present, only God is. He can't see us all the time.
Also, many believe these demons to be only metaphors for temptation and such



So, that means he can only see us at certain times? I'm not understanding, so when can he see us? I'm not saying what you say is wrong, I just never heard of that one before, just kinda want to understand.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


I understand your point about asking Christians and reading much about the Devil, but, when books have been left out of the bible, preachers on the same block teach different versions of Christianity, there are so many spins on the devil out there, I feel that my mind has been tainted.

I want to know as much as possible, and if that means talking to the other side about knowledge then I feel I have to do that. I mean, I have many Christians I can talk to in person, but, I don't know of anyone on the OTHER side, so I come here to this board to pose questions.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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I often wonder about this.

For example if the devil is said to be so evil and terribad then why would he even waste his time punishing wrong doing folk ?

That one sentence above need's to be answered does it not ?

My personal take on it is there are two major force's at work and you can look at them however you will.

Love + Hate
Good + Bad
Light + Dark
Positive + Negative

And so on.

If you fall on the right hand side then that's your path. And likewise if you fall on the left hand side that is the path you will follow.

All these fearmongering bible basher's need to take a step back and realise it's a personal choice and in the end being good or bad really is down to the individual to decide not some religion.

And before you ask yes i do beleive in god but in my opinion HE/SHE is not some GUY/GIRL with long flowing white hair.

Take care.

Regards
Lee





[edit on 24-5-2008 by h3akalee]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


Yes, I see what you mean. Also, time after time people say well demons attack me at night and in my sleep there were forces around me. If the devil is out attacking people, then why not do it when you are in the car, at work, or making love with the wife?

Why should it only be done when you are sleep or in bed or in a dark room?

[edit on 24-5-2008 by jhill76]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by h3akalee
All these fearmongering bible basher's need to take a step back and realise it's a personal choice and in the end being good or bad really is down to the individual to decide not some religion.


That's just the problem, though. Most of the anti-christians and 'bible bashers' are arguing against the fanatics. Most of us LOVE people like you, because you don't come in screaming stuff straight from the bible claiming crap like "It is the word of god! It is infallible!" I, personally, have the same qualms with ANYONE who cites a 'book of (insert belief)' as being some ultimate truth. The truth is that people that hold only ONE man-manipulated book as truth are wearing blinders, and only see in one direction without any consideration (or apparent consideration) of anyone else's beliefs. Those people (who ended up posting here anyways, and quite rudely I might add) are who the OP was trying to discourage. He wanted the opinions of people that weren't so short-sighted and ready to condemn anyone who doesn't share the same belief system.

I'm all about knowledge, and I love to learn of other religions. They truely are informative, especially when you look at the historical accounts rather than the religion itself. Once you open your mind a bit, you find alot of similarities between different religions. It kills me every moment of every day to think about all the war that has been waged in the name of various belief systems and to know that every one carries the same message of moral values. That, in my mind, is the ultimate blasphemy! THAT, in Christian terms, is the devil at work.

BTW, h3akalee... thanks for being one of the christians I have no desire to fight... you DO have an open mind, and I applaud you for that.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
I want only people who are occultists(sp?) or satanists or have messed around with that side. I don't really want to hear from Christians on this one, but are welcome to chime in, I just want to really hear it from the other side.

1) Christians believe demons can't cross over and do harm unto us. But, if they have been banished away from God and can no longer be in the light what is stopping them from raising hell on Earth, I mean if they are not with God then why do they have to follow the rules per say?

2) Can demons or the devil hear us pray?

3) Do the demons or the devil listen to our thoughts?

Thanks


If you are a Christian, then whatever the denominational doctrine you follow would inform you.

If you're not a Christian, then realize, please, that just as there are many "denominations" of Christianity and other organized religions, there too are various doctrines defining "satan" and "demons".

Obviously, whatever your religious background is, or isn't, you are questioning these things. What does your gut instincts tell you?



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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I must add i am not a christian.

I have come to beleive in one god for everyone and everything god on a more vast spectrum so to speak.

The one and only god for every person no matter what religion.

The creator if you will and it was a bumpy road that lead me to this point.

Take care.

Regards
Lee




posted on May, 24 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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My bad. Sorry about that. Glad to hear you've found your path, that is good. I really wish more people could do that instead of following the ramblings and misinterpretations of a single or couple of people.



posted on May, 27 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
I'm Native American (Apache)
and let me tell you there are things much worse then demons or the devil.

Oh to be sure there are things that bump in the night and they can do a lot more than just kill you!

Everyone thinks of us Red Skins as being these quaint earthy folks devoted to nature...
well just keep in mind there is a flip side to everything and we have a very dark flip side!


Could you please elaborate ...



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