Calling occultists/satanists

I want only people who are occultists(sp?) or satanists or have messed around with that side. I don't really want to hear from Christians on this one, but are welcome to chime in, I just want to really hear it from the other side.

1) Christians believe demons can't cross over and do harm unto us. But, if they have been banished away from God and can no longer be in the light what is stopping them from raising hell on Earth, I mean if they are not with God then why do they have to follow the rules per say?

2) Can demons or the devil hear us pray?

3) Do the demons or the devil listen to our thoughts?

Thanks

reply to post by jhill76


sorry, christian chiming in.

demons and the devil can influnce our lives. i dont know where you got the first on the list from but it imho is wrong. the bible says they can tempt us so for a christian to say they cant would be incorrect.

reply to post by DaleGribble


No tempt is different from harm. Also, I am asking what is making them follow Gods rules? What is binding them to it, if they are no longer with God.

Well as a former Satanist, I can tell you they do not exist. A Satanist doesn't believe in God, demons, or the devil. Satanism is the worship of self, and the practice of self-indulgence. My spurt as a Satanist was short lived. I don't like labels and I hated being involved in any group. All in all it's just stupid to belong to anything. Just love one another and be good to those that need and deserve it.

I believe in life after death, but I can say the only devils and demons are humans. Don't believe in these fairy tales meant to enslave human kind.

reply to post by jhill76


I'll take number two, can the devil hear us pray.
Score that as a YES.
Also, please let me clarify that I'm answering neither as speaking for a group who would all say the same, nor as someone who came to this on his own, but from an intermediate position where part of this was in my cell of the subculture, and the rest nobody had to tell me.
Obviously, this is not quantifiable-type data, but I have had interesting results twice, without giving you a disturbing life-story recital.
In general though Satan does not control everything, it's not going to work unless your petition falls into his areas of hatred, despair, pride, willpower, desire, false glamour/appearances, and then a final category that like pertains to small seemingly inconsequential Phillip-K-Dickian objects like finding a ten-dollar-bill on the sidewalk, or seeing a pattern in the pocket litter somebody else left in the motel room drawer.
You can't pray to Satan to make things allright...things are going to be worse, and you are going to be worse in the way that hangs in there along with them.
You shouldn't really pray to Satan for anything exterior to yourself, that kind of shows you don't get it...a proper petition would be to ask him for more hatred towards (whoever), such that, as you formulate that desire for more hatred and strength in hatred consciously, as you own it and ask for it, you kind of get it automatically right then. For example.
Well, allrighty then...

1) Christians believe demons can't cross over and do harm unto us. But, if they have been banished away from God and can no longer be in the light what is stopping them from raising hell on Earth, I mean if they are not with God then why do they have to follow the rules per say?

I believe that God, the Devil, and demons are a part of the subconscious. We raise the "hell" ourselves through our perception. What rules?

2) Can demons or the devil hear us pray?
3) Do the demons or the devil listen to our thoughts?

I believe that the Devil and demons are doubts, fears, and the product of in the body. Such as depression, loathing, hatred, and miscommunication. So, yeah so to speak they can.

None of this exists. God, Satan, Demons, the monster under your bed..


Why do you need this in your life?

Originally posted by jhill76


1) Christians believe demons can't cross over and do harm unto us. But, if they have been banished away from God and can no longer be in the light what is stopping them from raising hell on Earth, I mean if they are not with God then why do they have to follow the rules per say?

2) Can demons or the devil hear us pray?

3) Do the demons or the devil listen to our thoughts?


Thanks

I am a Christian. Its not right you saying Christians believe this or that!!! Do you know every Christians belief out there. I don't think so. So to say we believe this way or that way is wrong. Now you could of said some Christians believe. But, to say all is wrong.

I am not an occultists/Satanists!


Yes: they can hear us and mock us. This here tells us that he goes and gets permission before something happens.

Job 1

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD……

This is why:
Revelation 12

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.




This is what we should do.
Ephesians 6
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

devils in the Bible

John 13:2
And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Originally posted by jhill76
I want only people who are occultists(sp?) or satanists or have messed around with that side. I don't really want to hear from Christians on this one, but are welcome to chime in, I just want to really hear it from the other side.

I've had some experiences with the occult [not always by choice]. I do not consider gnosticism to be demonic however I do believe there is a school of thought that summons and harnesses negative energy and forces and I've [unfortuantly] been witness to it. I do not believe individual demons are what people should be worried about.. they're merely shadows of a darkness.

PS. I've nothing against 'humanist' satanists. Their philosophy is about liberty and humanity not evil.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by riley]

Originally posted by jhill76
1) Christians believe demons can't cross over and do harm unto us. But, if they have been banished away from God and can no longer be in the light what is stopping them from raising hell on Earth, I mean if they are not with God then why do they have to follow the rules per say?

The point of that we think they cannot harm us is not exactly true, some might, some not.
Even when being invisible, demons can cause harm to a Christian. They can cause bad feeling, fear, and pressuring condition. They can talk to you.. and even attack or touch physically, in very rare cases.

Originally posted by jhill76
2) Can demons or the devil hear us pray?

Yes they can hear anything what comes out of our mouth, but I dont think they would like to be near when we pray, when God's spirit is around.

Originally posted by jhill76
3) Do the demons or the devil listen to our thoughts?

Not sure about this, but if they ever could, it would not be usual. I believe that your thoughts are pretty safe, but watch out for what you say.. Demons are not perfect, they are created personalities.

Christians do believe in demons and Satan. The Bible speaks repeatedly about demons and Satan. Here is just a sampling of verses to peruse at your liesure.

Deuteronomy 32:17
They sacrificed to demons, which are not God— gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.

Psalm 106:37
They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons.

Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

Matthew 8:31
The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs."

Matthew 9:34
But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons."

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, [ The Greek word was used for various diseases affecting the skin—not necessarily leprosy.] drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

Matthew 12:24
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."

Matthew 12:27
And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.

Matthew 12:28
But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Mark 1:34
and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.

Mark 1:39
So he traveled throughout Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and driving out demons.

Mark 3:15
and to have authority to drive out demons.

Mark 3:22
And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."

Mark 5:12
The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them."

Mark 5:15
When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Mark 6:13
They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

Mark 9:38
[ W"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."

Mark 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

Mark 16:17
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. [ Or Messiah]

Luke 8:2
and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out;

Luke 8:31
"Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

Luke 8:32
A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission.

Luke 8:33
When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

Luke 8:35
and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Luke 8:38
The man from whom the demons had gone out begged to go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying,

Luke 9:1
When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

Luke 9:49
"Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."

Luke 10:17
The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

Luke 11:15
But some of them said, "By Beelzebub, [ Greek Beezeboul or Beelzeboul; also in verses 18 and 19] the prince of demons, he is driving out demons."

Luke 11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub.

Luke 11:19
Now if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.

Luke 11:20
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

Luke 13:32
He replied, "Go tell that fox, 'I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'

Romans 3:25
God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Romans 3:26
he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,

1 Corinthians 10:20
No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

1 Corinthians 10:21
You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols

Revelation 16:14
They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

Revelation 18:2
With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.

reply to post by Shar


Wow! I am going off my previous posts of what people have said to me regarding demons. There are so many denominations of Christians out there, I am not singling one or the other out.

Thanks for the input, but I really wanted to hear the OTHER sides point of view. I say this because Christians have a set of beliefs that they will never stray away from and I know that the OTHER side has a different belief system, basically I just want to hear there side of it.

Still WHY do demons follow the rules. Was there a pact made that says we stay here, you stay there. As you know God and the Devil are fighting (many contexts here) for each ones souls, so there must be rules that each are following, but, what is making each one follow this rule, whats stopping the dark side from saying screw this, I want more and just appears on Earth on our plane?

I just want to clarify what the Bible says about Satanists and occultists:

The Children of the Devil
42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

Originally posted by gnosis111
Well as a former Satanist, I can tell you they do not exist. A Satanist doesn't believe in God, demons, or the devil. Satanism is the worship of self, and the practice of self-indulgence. My spurt as a Satanist was short lived. I don't like labels and I hated being involved in any group. All in all it's just stupid to belong to anything. Just love one another and be good to those that need and deserve it.

I believe in life after death, but I can say the only devils and demons are humans. Don't believe in these fairy tales meant to enslave human kind.

Notice that some of the people denying that Satan and demons exist in this thread are the Satan worshippers themselves. This may be because Satanists worship the Deceiver who then deceives them into denying demons and Christ alike. The Deceiver is the Denier. The Deceiver denied God and now wants to deceive others into not only denying Christ but demons too. The Satanic conspiracy is to deny that Satan, demons, Christ, and God exist. The Satanic conspiracy is negation of the spiritual realm. Satan wants us to believe in the here and now and immediate gratification of sinful desires. He certainly doesn't want us to believe that we will someday stand before God and have to explain ourselves.

Otherwise Satanists and occultists believe that Satan and demons exist but then deny that God and Christ exist. They accept Satan and reject Christ. You may ask how can someone accept Satan and demons so readily but yet deny God? Please revert back to my first paragraph. Satanist and occultists worship Satan and demons whose soul purpose is to deny Christ. Denial is Satan's game. He is the Father of lies and therefore convinces his children to do the same.

Otherwise Satanists deny that Satan, Christ, God, and demons exist. Satanists only believe in the self as quoted above. This again is denial of the existence of Satan, demons, God, Christ. Satan does whatever he can to convince people to not believe in God.

I guess that I just don't understand why anyone would elicit advice from people who worship the Denier all the while denying that the Denier exists.


[edit on 23-5-2008 by checkers]

Duplicate entry


[edit on 23-5-2008 by checkers]

reply to post by jhill76


you got it all wrong, satanists are not like that, they dont believe in the christian satan or any demons, they just follow a way of life.

"Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means “adversary” or “opposer”; one who questions."

"Satanism begins with atheism"

read this interview and inform yourself

www.google.com...

click on the first result i cant get the wiki link to work.


[edit on 23-5-2008 by CzErased]

I'm Native American (Apache)
and let me tell you there are things much worse then demons or the devil.

Oh to be sure there are things that bump in the night and they can do a lot more than just kill you!

Everyone thinks of us Red Skins as being these quaint earthy folks devoted to nature...
well just keep in mind there is a flip side to everything and we have a very dark flip side!

Originally posted by checkers
I just want to clarify what the Bible says about Satanists and occultists:



Notice that some of the people denying that Satan and demons exist in this thread are the Satan worshippers themselves.




Wow, thats a bold statement. It is just like a Christian to slap a demeaning label, so to rally the pitchforks and torch carriers and run off people who don't "believe " the same way as they do. But it is pointless even conversing or arguing with these people, as logic does not enter into their frame of mind.

I suppose it doesn't matter to retort by saying I DO NOT worship anything, I am a servant of nothing and no one. I live to love who wants loved and experience life the way it was intended. Your bible says that god gave us free will, and yet you condemn those acting on their free will, which was god given. You have no right to judge or condemn. To do so is god's alone, not man's.

Live by the word you so defend. If not you are no better than your "evil" devil worshipers.



[edit on 23-5-2008 by gnosis111]

[edit on 23-5-2008 by gnosis111]

There are actually 2 types of Satanist.

The non-practicing, Anton Lavey, atheist type...

And the PRACTICING type. THESE guys are the freaks. Not all Satanists are atheists at heart, there are 2-3 million of these weirdos in the US, according to Ted Gunderson, FBI agent (if I remember correctly).

These guys are truly evil, and according to Ted Gunderson again, they do everything from human sacrifice, to torturing and skinning alive children, to you name it.

Originally posted by jhill76

Still WHY do demons follow the rules. Was there a pact made that says we stay here, you stay there. As you know God and the Devil are fighting (many contexts here) for each ones souls, so there must be rules that each are following, but, what is making each one follow this rule, whats stopping the dark side from saying screw this, I want more and just appears on Earth on our plane?

Rules? they don't follow any rules. What a joke. They just don't have a choice. They are here to take our souls with them to their hell (lake of fire in the end)

If people would read the Bible they would see that the reason the Tower of Babel was being built was to get back into Heaven!!!!

The falling angels (with us humans) was building a tower of Babel. (which means gateway to heaven)


Genesis 11

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.


So you can clearly see they were trying to get back to the place they got kicked out of.

They are not exactly following any rules. God has just took some things away from them. So now they are demons where as they use to be what we called (Gods) and they made us do things for them. They had babies with our mortal women even. Their power was still so great that this produced Giants so their power went into size when mixed with us. These Giants were very, very mean to humans in those days. You would have to read about it all to understand it.

Genesis 6:4 King James Version

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Numbers 13

33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

More on Giants



They have control over the earth so to speak which is why you have wars, death, rape, murder, stealing, bribery, you name it. Its being done. They will only have control till God says enough is enough and puts an end to it.

The devils fear God and Tremble. Why: He’s more powerful. He controls them!!! He can go ahead and throw them in the Lake of Fire or bound them up.

Matthew 8

28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? 30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.


James 2:19

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

IMO. God loves us so much that he’s dealing with their rudeness and working just as hard to try and save us all from them. There is war going on every day for your soul!!!

Again this is why this is happening.

Revelation 12
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.