why the hell are skeptics allowed to post here

reply to post by gauncents


Communities are built through cooperation. Not fracturing and pushing people out who disagree with you. Once again the sheep dogs are trying to use intimidation to push the heard around. Because they honestly feel superior.

GreenEyedLeo,

CIA agents, yes. And FBI agents, too! OH MY!

In general, any site that espouses counter-cultural content that can result in militia-like activity is being observed. There are many companys at this moment building Data Mining tools for sites like this one that are not for advertising or revenue, but for domestic surveillance of terrorist threats. They are searching sites PRECISELY like this one. DOMESTIC SITES with open forums. If anyone feels that is far fetched or paranoid, more power to you.

Again to the original poster.

You will have to fight hard. The sheep dogs here want to reign in your thinking at all costs. They are just people who believe in a reality that they want to enforce. The vast majority of the time, honest skeptics are helping by pointing out flaws in people's reasoning, providing common explanations for misidentified things, detecting schizoid behavior, etc. But in the end of the day, some of them are here because of their beliefs. Not a search for objective truth. If they really wanted that, they would be out in the field, not sitting here. They are sitting here to control your way of thinking. That is their main objective. It is revealed by they choice of activities.

Meanwhile, there are some very far-out people here who also have a fixed belief system. They are here to try to 'spread the word' about UFOs. There are people trying to form cults here as well. Be careful with this side, too. They also want to control your way of thinking.

This site becomes a web for people to try to push an ideological agenda from many fronts.

Sometimes the skeptics are spot on. Other times, it is the believers who don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. And neither side seems to be able to acknowledge that. Us poor objective people. We are so screwed. We wade through the arguments and look for the reasonable parts. Thats all you can do.

I have no idea if your initial post was reasonable, whether you took offense to reasonable criticism, or if it was somewhere in the middle. What matters is that you are prepared to join a community. Agenda fire fights always muddy the waters. In the end what matters is that you are willing to take other people's point of view into reasonable consideration, and not shut them down.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Ectoterrestrial]

No worries the skeptics will test your metal, and that is a good thing, it makes you proud to be part of the ATS ENTITY. This entity may prove fierce but it is only as fierce as perception always it to be.

Why the hell is someone here always trying to impose who is and isnt allowed to post?

There´s no doorkeeper, anyone can log on.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS I don't enjoy reading posts that look like a Haiku.

Searching through the mist
Logic's light pierces shadow
Illuminates truth

Hidden is the grain
To strip away the chaos
Keenest blade cuts best

Originally posted by elibubbles

well why not KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!

Perhaps you could keep your thoughts on UFOs to yourself?

See how silly that sounds?

You say what you want....others say what they want....all within the rules set forth by the owners.

reply to post by elibubbles

you have never posted anything on ATS according to my search of your name.if you have, post your your last blog.

One thing the OP might not have considered.

Every claim needs to be subjected to some analysis.

Why? Because people post false claims.

You can't separate the wheat from the chaff without analysis, and you end up with a large body of claims, some of which may have some validity and some which are outright hoaxes.

At present it's not clear what's happening. To get to the truth requires an ability to dissect, discern and validate what facts any claim contains.

So it's a process of learning. Do even 'believers' accept all claims? If not, then it shows they're interested in the truth, no matter where it leads them.

Don't we all want the same thing, then?

Post your claims and your proof and listen to what people have to say. Discover for yourself wherein the truth lies. Don't accept everything someone says, even if they are a well-known figure in Ufology. Often, they have an agenda, which can include promoting their own expertise and they will often do this by backing extravagant claims just to get the attention.

Hope this sheds some light on things for you.


[edit on 23-5-2008 by Badge01]

Because we can. I do not take everything at face value.. Just because some material is in print does not make it Real..

I see paranoia and fiction at work here. "Not encompassing all the fine work some individuals have put into their forums and threads"

Just the Illogical ones.



[edit on 23-5-2008 by Lantian]

I think Skyfloating's comment makes sense, there is no doorman, anyone can log in and voice one's opinion. Some are gonna annoy the hell out of you. But like Artista posted earlier, and compared the boards to a dinner party, it would be boring if everyone agreed on everything.

To the OP:

There's really only three things you can do. Stay and deal with it, look for those diamonds in the rough. Leave (which would only be hurting yourself.)

The third option, the one I find works best for me. Well it's really the first option with liberal use of the ignore button.

By the way, I may not agree with you, and not like the "moron" comment ect. But I do wish you'd stay and give the forum a chance. We all make mistakes, no ones perfect, and over the short time I've been here, I've had it out with posters, and mods(you can see by my negative point total,heh), but luckily...I decided to stick it out and stay.

I've found it a quite enjoyable place now that I figured out who to stay away from, which discussions to stay out of, and I've tried to read alot more than post. Often times I'll write a heated post, then re-read it before posting it, and see how heated I come across, and decide not to post it. I do this more often than I care to admit.

But when joining "any" forum, it's always good to read, and watch, and get a feel for the place before makeing a post with certain expectations on the replies your gonna get.

ATS's motto is Deny Ignorance. It means alot, and says alot, for just two words. But that is how ATS is. Most of the people here ARE open minded, and there are very few hard-core "Micheal Shermer" skeptics. But some people (more than most other forums), are gonna pick every piece of evidence someone might post apart before they decide whether or not to believe something.

I think it's just a reaction from all the attempted hoaxes that were tried here. Many people here, I believe, are on high guard, and are in the fool me twice shame on me frame of mind.

But I was a bit too early to say I'd put you on ignore. I mean everyone deserves a second chance. I have gotten them, so I'll hold off with the ignore for now, because, I've seen plenty of new members come here and start out a bit harsh, then turn into posters I actually enjoy reading.





[edit on 23-5-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Nola213]

I believe skeptics are a very important part of ATS..... for the 'believer' like me, i often get excited about certain posts and tend to believe what im reading/seeing if it seems relatively plausable..... then half way through a thread someone will debunk it quite rightly, and point out why its not true/correct, then i can take that on board and filter it out..... for example, ufo pics... i have no clue about cgi etc, so i rely on these skeptics/experts to help me figure out the truth... its about balance

reply to post by Badge01


Thats the thing skeptics cant seperate fact from fiction or at least thats what the dictionary says:

skep·tic also scep·tic (skptk)
n.
1. One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.

So whats the point in clarifying anything to a skeptic when the dictionary says they denounce anything and who do they agree with besides themselves?

Maybe they should live up to there names and boast "I believe nothing and doubt all" lets see them boast about that one.

The wrath of the skeptic, that all we need, indecisiveness at it worst

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Drakiir]

I agree with Nola, there are are very few if any Michael Shermer-like skeptics in this forum but this is not to say that there are not a number of pseudo skeptics who are more into making veiled and sometimes outright personal derogatory remarks to the person who is posting material that's outside of their frame of reference simply because they themselves have never experienced that "something" before which is why they have trouble wrapping their mind's around it to consider that such things are possible.

They think UFOs and it's accompanying phenomena are all about nuts and bolts engineering and technology which implies that they think this phenomenon is exclusively man-made when in fact the majority of what's being reported is "something" else and it's that "something" else that they refuse to even acknowledge hence their myopic paradigm that they are operating from is deeply flawed because of this. It's those pseudo-skeptics who are like this that I have issues with especially the ones who also gang up on and make personal attacks to those whose viewpoint on some things are different than what theirs are.

I also think too many people here have become jaded where no one believes anyone anymore. But on the other hand, who can blame them because we do get people posting in this forum who are making false claims i.e. fake whistle-blowers -- not to mention all of those CGI UFO clips from You Tube. Then there are those attention-seekers who also post false information who log into this forum every now and then too and let me tell you, every time their claims or their material are found to be nothing but fabrications, I'm left in a state of shock that there are even people like that out there who are like this. All the more reason to not give out too much personal information about yourself in a public forum like this one because those who get their kicks by posting false information are not, in my view, mentally stable though this is not to say that they should not be held responsible for their misdeeds.

Nevertheless, we should be understanding towards those who are like this especially when it's very clear that something is very, very wrong with them. Fortunately, in such cases many here can spot those red flags that identify mental illness so for the most part, I'm very proud of ATS because most here handle such cases in a loving and compassionate manner.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by wang_ke_~]

Wow Eli - I imagine you didn't expect a response like this. I guess it's because you're potentialy attacking something that most Forum Members hold dear to their hearts - and that's a damned good debate over an interesting topic.

A debate by definition requires at least two opposing points of view. Generally, most of us will respect other valid opinions. As in every walk of life, there is a small abusive element who will occasionally raise your hackles - but keep your sense of humour and generally stick to the topic.

As we are often reminded by our Moderaters, 'Attack the topic not the writer'. Stick to that and there are no holds barred.

This is not a self-appreciation society. If you write something that somebody else strongly disagrees with, they will most definitely tell you - and they have every right to - As do you.

Regarding Skeptics: There is a vast difference between a hardened skeptic and somebody who is skeptical of something.

For example a skeptic will generally refuse point blank to accept anything contrary to their belief. Whereas a person who is skeptical, is usually open minded, undecided and in need of evidence.

I know it can be dis-heartening when you put a lot of effort into an opening topic post and you get little reponse - sometimes that's they way the cookie crumbles. There are an awful lot of threads around. I guarantee there will be one underway on the subject you posted. Join in and copy/paste it when appropriate - preferably in sections that are relevant to the discussion at that time.

Believe me, if you are enthusiastic and reasonably prolific with your input, you'll soon get the hang of it. Remember - Keep your sense of humour.

Best Wishes and Welcome to the Forum

Myrdyn

[edit on 23/5/08 by Myrdyn]

Ta got to have a thick skin to post here buddy... if not the sharks will tear ya apart.

Besides that, who wants to read threads where everybody agrees with you? That's not only boring but precludes any serious learning.

reply to post by elibubbles


wanna know why? because people are free to do as they please. this is a site about what people call usually call conspiracy theories, of course there are going to be people who come here and agree/believe things they see/read and people who don't. that's life. freedom of speech is a nifty thing XD

if only people who believed all of this 100% were allowed/encouraged to post, then you'd be feeding the notion that 'believers' or 'conspiracy theorists' can't defend their views when faced with opposition. and believe me, the general public DOES believe that. i've met alot of people who refuse to even consider that what they believe might not be true

furthermore, i like to read/hear opposing views. i can tell, just by your post that you do not. i suggest you become more open-minded. not everyone is going to agree with you and they have the right to do so. as long as a person is not being rude or disrespectful i don't care if they say "i don't believe in aliens/mosters/whatever". and i think they can post here if they want. that's just opinion.

Originally posted by grover
Ta got to have a thick skin to post here buddy... if not the sharks will tear ya apart.

Besides that, who wants to read threads where everybody agrees with you? That's not only boring but precludes any serious learning.

Couldn't agree more. Jose Escamilla learned the hard way. Couldn't deal with the criticizim and got himself banned. Although it is a little easier if you dont have anger issues to begin with.

Originally posted by elibubblesi am 100% convinced it is true

There's the problem right there.

There's plenty of circumstantial evidence that shows that there is some sort of phenomenon involved, be it extra-terrestrial, ultra-terrestrial, supernatural, natural, or man-made.
There's no credible evidence available that definitively explains what that phenomenon is, despite what people want to believe.
There's gobs of fabricated evidence that has been manipulated to advance the agendas of those presenting it, whether they be believer or debunker, seeker or gawker.
There's also gobs of legitimate evidence that has been legitimately misidentified by well-meaning folks without an agenda.
There's a tiny bit of evidence that is still up to debate.
There's enough uncertainty out there, that it's not wise to be 100% convinced, less you come out looking like a fool.

Me?

I've seen things and have had things happen to me that I cannot explain. I've experienced things described in abduction stories, including missing time, seemingly planted memories, and the like.

Do I believe that I've encountered aliens?

Nope, as I'm still not convinced. I'm open minded, and accept that it might be the case, if true, but I'm not about to take that plunge. If it's not the case, then I'm doing myself a disservice by subscribing to a delusion of the fantastic. If it is the case, then only an open, skeptical mind will help me navigate through it. If I was 100% convinced, then I'd be just as closed minded as the debunker who is 100% convinced I'm full of it, and there are no absolutes regarding this subject on either side.

That said, this is just my opinion, and everybody's entitled to theirs.

Do I want to believe? Yeah, of course, and I've got the poster to prove it.
Do I actually believe? Nope, can't do that and have a good conscience about it.

What exactly does all this have to do w/ the Ufo phenomena...maybe another forum would be proper for this topic...since this is a topic of "why skeptics post" seems to be an off topic...yeah i know some ppl are discussing UFO's in here, but this is off topic to the OP's thread...There is already a flood of crappy topics right now in the UFO forum y add another one...just my 50 cents worth

Good Day
Skept!cal

reply to post by gauncents


Yeah... ya just don't take it personally.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I have no clue what grammer would have to do with the topic. Simple question asked, so why go off topic and pick apart his/her grammer(worng? :>). They obviously got thier point across, so I believe that should be good enough. Your good at grammar; good for you! Back on topic, If you have an theory on a topic; great, just don't post it like it's fact...thats when the people with half a mind will jump on you and question it. Skeptics are here to keep this field on a straight line, make us work harder to prove something instead of just accepting theories without question.