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Military Draft Discussed in Senate!

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:05 PM
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Is says thatlike 126,000 dollars is alot of money. That is nothing-how much is your child worth to you? Your life? Your Senator?




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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Call me crazy, but if the military is in such need of members that reinstating the draft is necessary, then why is the military downsizing.?

As being that I am in the Navy, and they are downsizing... I know you guys are going to argue that the Navy isn't the 'real' military but I assure you we are. There are SEALS, SWIC.. etc. And the pilots..

I also know that they have been sending some of us IA on a voluntary basis as of now..

and don't forget all of those that are inactive in the reserves that they could activate BEFORE reinstating the draft.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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Yeah but if McCain gets in, it would not suprize me if he would try it. But I think a democratic senate and congress would block it.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Well with recruitment rates at an all-time low and around 20,000 odd vacancies in the military..

To me, it seems that the government won't be at a loss for "recruits" to draft. After all, people must be Citizens in order to become part of the military...Do you recall all of these out-of-work Citizens who've been displaced in the work force by illegal aliens?...



Originally posted by ldunquist
At this point, just to fire up the draft machine and start churning out conscripts it would take longer than the Bush Administration has in office.

Well, you shouldn't worry too much on that account: It's possible Bush may declare martial law & indefinitely suspend the elections anyway...After all, he's already "committed" us to a war that can be extended forever. Even if that doesn't happen, Bush is fundraising for McCain's campaign & we all know how much McCain is like Bush. Also, any other Presidential candidate (except Ron Paul) will still continue to run US into the ground...
So don't worry too much about whether "firing up the draft machine" will be worth the effort...



Originally posted by PokeyJoe
Regardless of whether or not you agree with whats going on, you should stand by your country...

I do stand up for my country...It's just that the Constitutional Republic that America should be is not what the current government is. I support my country at all times, but I only support the government when it deserves it...The government that deserves support hasn't existed since before Abraham Lincoln was in Office.


Originally posted by PokeyJoe
...actually I think everyone should experience military life for a little bit....it would be good for you.

Before you start spouting off at me for my opinion, I must inform you that I have already done my duty & I'm classified as a Gulf War Vet at my local VA Office...Yeah, my term was during Daddy Bush's reign in Office, no less.


Originally posted by galatea
I know you guys are going to argue that the Navy isn't the 'real' military but I assure you we are. There are SEALS, SWIC.. etc. And the pilots..

I won't argue...My term was in the Navy. Between the Naval Air Bases, aircraft carriers & transports, we have more of an air force than the Air Force does. Then you consider that the Marines are under direct command of the Navy (unless ordered to re-assign from way up in the Command), we've got a pretty impressive "army" too. Between the subs & other missile-carrying ships, we can bombard as far inland as it takes to make any warhawk "get hard."



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 02:52 AM
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Personally, I don't have a problem with mandatory service under a government that actually cares about its people and its soldiers and as long as there is a choice for people like me who wouldn't last a day! However, in this current political climate, I have to agree with those of you who have said that this is something that could turn things around. We do not have a trustworthy government and a draft is somewhat different from mandatory service because with stop-loss, there is really no end to the service in sight. I think that the current opposition to the war, combined with a draft, would actually get the people to look earnestly at the problems we are facing. Maybe having the people work together in this way would actually begin the long process of turning things around?



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by scarlett1125
 


Why would they care when you simply dont matter to them?

I dont think any government actually cares about their people. Its just a system of control, designed to make society work in some way. They dont care about individuals if you dont have something to offer - like votes when there is a election.

Its a charade. A game. Your mates and coworkers care more about you than the government does.

The ultimate insanity is going off to fight other people in the name of the government and believing you are doing something good.


[edit on 24-5-2008 by Copernicus]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
This next few months are going to be the most pivotal in human existence.


because if everyting to date has happened the way many on ATS believe it to have, then its not going to just fade away and change leadership.

The curernt regime will not allow their achievments and successes in regional domination to be handed over to Obama.


OK, honest question, then. If the next few months go by without incident (and I'm talking major incident here, not counting any of the day-to-day little crap and petty international bickering that is commonplace) and the elections go off without a hitch, will the "many on ATS" finally accept that alot of fear mongering and complete nonsense has been spewed against the Bush administration over the past 8 years and just get on with it? Also, let's say McCain gets elected president, are we going to have to deal with another 4 years of whining and complaining about unsubstantiated claims of rigged voter machines and undimpled chads in Florida?

We should have a draft, dammit. We've had a couple of generations pass since we had a sizeable chunk of America's youth who actually understood what being an American was all about and who had a realistic grasp on the concepts of freedom and rights. In that time our only accomplishment is a whinier group of youths with an ever growing sense of entitlement and an attitude that seems to indicate they believe if you're not living your life under an ever darkening cloud of impending doom (be it from the farce of catastrophic climate change, phantom visions of fascism, or the inexplicable feeling that America in some way "owes" the rest of the world and we should all lower ourselves down to their levels.) then you're somehow "unenlightened." This generation (and my own generation, for that matter) have a complete lack of discipline, no sense of personal responsibillity, and absolutely no vestiges of the big set of brass balls Americans of previous generations proudly swung between their legs. We sorely need those three things instilled back into our society or else alot of you are right, but for the wrong reasons, and our future as a nation really does look bleak.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 04:49 AM
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I'll just make it short, Congress should the time come where you see it necessary to draft me to fight your war against your enemies, You wont need to wonder rather or not I will fight, But rather who I will fight.

Always keep this question in mind because I assure you a bunch of Muslims in the desert running around blowing themselves up will be the least of your worries when you decide you think own my life.



[edit on 24-5-2008 by C0le]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6


We should have a draft, dammit. We've had a couple of generations pass since we had a sizeable chunk of America's youth who actually understood what being an American was all about and who had a realistic grasp on the concepts of freedom and rights.


When Man, Majority or Government owns another persons life that person is not free and the freedoms and rights you speak of do not exist.



In that time our only accomplishment is a whinier group of youths with an ever growing sense of entitlement and an attitude that seems to indicate they believe if you're not living your life under an ever darkening cloud of impending doom (be it from the farce of catastrophic climate change, phantom visions of fascism, or the inexplicable feeling that America in some way "owes" the rest of the world and we should all lower ourselves down to their levels.) then you're somehow "unenlightened." This generation (and my own generation, for that matter) have a complete lack of discipline, no sense of personal responsibillity, and absolutely no vestiges of the big set of brass balls Americans of previous generations proudly swung between their legs. We sorely need those three things instilled back into our society or else alot of you are right, but for the wrong reasons, and our future as a nation really does look bleak.


The short comings of this generation are the bi product of the previous generation of "brass balled" stubborn and hardheaded morons who did a terrible job at raising their children and created ALL of the damn problems this generation is going to have to step up to and deal with.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by C0le]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



Depends, If mccain wins when he has the LESS votes, then yes. Id expect people with morals and integrity to fight tooth and nail for blatant treason'is activies.

Compared to those whom support bush.

Depends also, if Mccain suddenly decides Iran is a feasable threat, and worthy of another WAR, when the people dont agree.
Unless of course your a traitor and believe fighting corporate wars for money and resources is worthy of American lives.

Depends also on weather Mccain lies through his teeth, creates fake evidence and snubs the world..

then yes, unless your a TRAITOR, id expect you to fight tooth and nail for what AMERICA was built on.

Then again,
Only traitors would consider the past 8yrs of Bush's presidency to be
Honest, Upfront, Open and justified...

also lets call it what it is.. illegial.

was it a coup?.. nah
was it stolen?.. nah..

bought?
perhaps..

but no matter what it is, if you follow George Bush, after everything he has done TO America, and TO the world then you are a traitor.
Because you are aiding an enemy of the nation while he is destroying your nation, for either personal or political gain.

And if Mccain does the SAME THING, then yes... id expect you to again be a traitor.

Who's to say Mccain will?

'' Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb IRAN ''

Im sure he really DIDNT mean that...

I agree with you though, there should be a draft.

So many of you are blood thirsty, you shoot up your own school children, shoppers in malls.. hell you take guns to work and kill people cause you get fired...
you take shots out of cars with a sniper rifle..

what better way to get rid of the SCUM of the EARTH than have them go fight in an illegial war for the ultimate SCUM of the EARTH!

one thing a draft will do is teach the young ones some discipline.
That is, unless your a jailer in abugrahib, or a mecenary, or a foot solider.
What displine is it when you plant weapons to excuse murder?
Or use inhumane tactics on people?

How will these kids be when the return home from shooting up, then shooting at....?

Will your KIDS be going to IRAQ?
What about Israel?

Sorry, but if you come here and say that people are wining whingers because they criticise GW Bush, your definately, in my mind a TRAITOR to the UNITED STATES!







posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 



To me, it seems that the government won't be at a loss for "recruits" to draft. After all, people must be Citizens in order to become part of the military...Do you recall all of these out-of-work Citizens who've been displaced in the work force by illegal aliens?...


You would think so, but you'd be wrong friend:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

Since 2005, actual recruitment levels have been 48% lower than the required levels.
Here's some more info:www.wsws.org...

As much as cash can be a motivator I think ordinary working folk just value their arms and legs far too much to sign up, hell their even resorting to accepting in more and more felons, the situation's getting pretty desperate: www.iht.com...

Especially with Bush & Co. at the wheel, who the hell wants to join the army when this nut is flinging soldiers into the meat grinder like bugs?

reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



We should have a draft, dammit. We've had a couple of generations pass since we had a sizeable chunk of America's youth who actually understood what being an American was all about and who had a realistic grasp on the concepts of freedom and rights.


You've also had a couple of generations of governments who seem to have forgotten the sacrifices made in order to establish the free state that is America, and instead they walk over the constitution and their people like door mats and proclaim themselves all powerful.

Naturally the people don't wish to serve for leaders who in reality treat them as expendable ATM machines.
For the people to change, the government must change.


We sorely need those three things instilled back into our society or else alot of you are right, but for the wrong reasons, and our future as a nation really does look bleak.


The people react and live the way the governments want them to.
The people's tendencies, lifestyles and ideals are hard to change, the government's are NOT.
This "fear-mongering" is extremely productive for American business, thus why it has become ingrained in your culture.

The fear of crime, fear of teenage subcultures, fear of rebellion, fear of terrorism, fear of war, fear of climate change, fear of lack of health benefits, fear of not fearing something and seeming too happy is constantly perpetuated because so many people and so many industries connected to influential individuals are making so much money from this.

Don't blame the public for being fearful when the government holds a gun to their heads indefinitely. Be it Communism, Islam, Black people, Mexicans, etc... there'll always be a bogeyman to justify America's war-driven policies.

Fear is more powerful than love, and it's much easier to make someone sh*t their pants and hand over their cash than to develop a relationship with them to the point they feel devoted to you.

Last time I checked the US was a democracy. What's needed is fresh blood in the White House, and not a series of Republican Capitalists who are essentially puppets in office being controlled by powerful individuals and big business for their own interests.

Your putting too much emphasis on the people.
We don't control jack all. You, me, John Q. Citizen might like to think we have power but we're pawns being moved around the board.

To institute a draft is to force an already fearful, deprived generation to greater levels of fear. The last thing the US needs at the moment with a faltering economy, a series of disastrous wars and falling popularity..
is widespread social unrest and tension.

You have to deal in CARROTS and sticks, remember, Iraq and Afghanistan were essentially falsified wars commenced for no other reason than sheer greed.
Do you want to be a vehicle somebody else can use to further their own interests or do you want to fight for something you believe is right?



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 06:49 AM
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Oh great, a draft. Yeah, I don't want to fight along side some jack@$$ that doesn't want to be there. I'd rather fly solo than be stuck with someone that is bitter because he/she was drafted.

I just don't understand what they hope to accomplish with a draft. Granted we are stretched thin as far as new recruits hence the Army shoveling big loads of BS down poor kids throats...hell the Marines are starting to get bad too. Wont get much help in fighting the war with a draft. If anything, it'll cause a sort of animosity between those who were drafted and those who chose to be there. I can see this becomeing a disaster.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by MidnightDStroyer
 


This is kinda off topic, but I really hope you dont think that the Navy has more of an "air force" than the Air Force does. Thats pretty delusional. In no way, shape, or form is that true.

I have nothing against the Navy at all, I just think that was an asinine statement.

Sorry, back on topic.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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let it be known that both times the draft has been brought up it has been by democrats.
Charlie Rangel (D-NY)
and
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)

knowing democrats the only reason is so they can say " see the republican president made this war and made this draft happen"
so they don't care how many people get drafted as long as they can blame Bush for it.
sickos!



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 12:24 PM
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I don't believe a draft will be reinstated.

At this particular time?...just before the election?...I don't think so.

I think this proposal is a means to pressure the pro war congress members to support unpopular legislation. Also to expose hawks in the government who will not "support our troops" by providing fresh recruits.

There is no doubt the army and marines are struggling almost desperate.

So the jist is either start the draft or stop the war. I believe it is a strategy to stop the war.

This war is opposed by approximately 70 per cent of the population. Can you imagine what would happen if a draft was implemented??

There is an outside possiblilty that the draft is being prepared as a response to a catastrophic event which will allow a full scale war in the middle east.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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Every person when reaching 18 should be required to serve in the military of Lose the right to vote................



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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IS THIS NAZI GERMANY???



CIVILIANS RECRUITED TO PLACE IRAQI "DISSIDENTS" IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS?????




HOW CAN I AVOID FIGHTING THE IRAQ WAR?


AND FINALLY, HOW CAN SOME FLAG-WAVIND SHEEPLE ACTUALLY THINK THAT OUR MILITARY IS PROTECTING THEIR ALREADY-NONEXISTENT FREEDOMS?????

[edit on 24-5-2008 by thetruth777]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime
Every person when reaching 18 should be required to serve in the military of Lose the right to vote................


Who are you to tell me or anyone else what they have to do? You don't own us nor does this country, We own ourselves,

And you loose your right to vote eh? meaning those who choose not to serve don't really have much of an option now do they?

You can take your precious Democracy and have fun in fantasy land...

This Countries Government will never force me to fight for it, But I will willingly fight against it if it ever again dares to think it owns me and my life.

I seriously wounder about the minds of some of you living in this dreamworld, waving your little flags feeling all nice and patriotic when in reality you're borderline Nazi's, and you don't even realize it....

[edit on 24-5-2008 by C0le]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
...then yes, unless your a TRAITOR, id expect you to fight tooth and nail for what AMERICA was built on....

Not merely this quote, but the whole post...Wow! Star is earned for sure! I couldn't have put it better myself.


That's the whole key to being a true patriot for your country...Support your nation at all times, but support your government only when it's deserving of support. Even a quick read-through of the Constitution is enough to realize who the real traitors are!

There's been so many un-constitutional candidates over the past few decades that the only vote I've ever been comfortable with is "No Confidence." I've watched Neil Armstrong step on the moon less than a month before my 8th birthday & I turned voting age in the same year I graduated high school. Every election cycle since then has been a supreme disappointment because I've never even heard of anyone who would deserve my vote...After all, how many parents name their kid "No Confidence?"

This is why Ron Paul is the only choice for the true patriot...He's the only one who has shown such devotion to the Supreme Law of the Land & the nation that it stands for, nothing like anyone else in the running for President.


Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
You would think so, but you'd be wrong friend:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

You're referring to recruitment being down, mostly because more people are refusing voluntary service...Probably because no one really believes that the war has a valid cause. If they actually re-instate the draft then a lot of those who won't volunteer won't have the choice to serve anymore. You're comparing "choice" to "force" when referring to enlistment...Apples-n-oranges...



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
This "fear-mongering" is extremely productive for American business, thus why it has become ingrained in your culture.

Yeah, it's effective for business, which is not required to swear/affirm an Oath to the Constitution...All Government Officers are required by legally-binding Oath. Do you really think that such treasonous oath-breakers in government are worthy of your support? I don't.



Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Last time I checked the US was a democracy.

Which is yet another violation of the government's legally-binding Oath of Office...Check out Article 4, Section 4 (bold emphasis is mine):

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

Democracy is nothing less or more than "mob rule," where one charismatic person with a good PR firm can convince 51% of the population to vote away the Unalienable Rights of the other 49%. This is the reason why the Founding Forefathers feared & loathed democracy for our nation...Just as much as Cold War Era America feared & loathed communism.


Originally posted by thetruth777
IS THIS NAZI GERMANY???

Not quite, but it's way too close for comfort. If you'll take a look at Project Paperclip, you can see where a lot of the "nazi-ism" currently in US government came from...

What? Don't tell me that anyone who really knows any history at all couldn't make this connection to Hitler's Germany & the USA today? Then it's true that those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat the mistakes in history.




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