Military Draft Discussed in Senate!, page 3

Originally posted by phinubian
Inouye and Rangel unfortunately aren't elites but they both are combat veterans, they realize after analyzing the numbers either one of two things has to happen, immediate withdrawal or some sort of forced enlistment or extensions of military service to keep a fresh pool of troops...we know that the immediate withdrawal or actual troop drawdowns is a slim reality at least for the next year or so.

I am not debating the military necessity of instituting the draft and whether or not it may be needed at this time. But there is a huge difference between saying 'our volunteer military forces are getting too weary of combat and we do not have enough reserves to relieve them' and saying 'were spending too much on our volunteer soldiers so we need to get some cheap slave soldiers in there to cut down on the war expenses'. This is essentially what they are saying.

Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), chairman of the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee, asked Gates and Mullen the question he said no one wants to ask: “Is the cost of maintaining an all-volunteer force becoming unsustainable and, secondly, do we need to consider reinstituting the draft.”

Inouye cited the ever-increasing pay and benefits paid to active and reserve service members, noting that it now costs an estimated $126,000 per service member.

The cost of an F-16 in 2006 was approximately $70 million dollars.

US Military Dictionary: Fighting Falcon

One fighter jet costs more than the benefits for over 550 service men. That means that the benefits for all the service men over Iraq right now (approximately 160,000) is less than the cost of 290 fighter jets. Now do you see how absurd a statement this is? The money they are complaining about as an argument for calling the draft up is a pittance. My post, however, was also about the two-faced liars that supposedly represent us in Washington. To our faces they preach from their podiums how they have no intension of incurring the draft and while in session behind the chamber doors they advocate that very thing. Like you said, they know we're (US military) going to be there for quite a while, no matter what they say to our faces and irregardless of which party they represent. All the pro-war/ anti-war, republican/ democrat bull crap is merely for our benefit to keep us divided while they do whatever they please.

Originally posted by grey580
Every year someone brings up the fact that someone in congress puts a draft proposal in a bill.

But it never gets passed, so I wouldn't make to much out of it.

I hope your right but you know the new president, whoever it will be, is not going to want to impose a draft If they plan on doing for Iraq (and possibly Iran) then they will do it before Bush gets out of office. And he won’t care, because he’s done anyway and his ratings are so low they can’t really get any lower. So I feel that now is probably the time to be concerned about this a real possibility.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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I'll admit to not reading the entire thread and breaking one of my own rules here, but I think it's funny that a Democrat congressman deliberately invoked the word "draft" knowing it would spark passionate controversy, and "viola!" here we are discussing how the evil Republicans are considering reinstating the draft -- only the Dems can save us now...

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

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Havn't read through all the posts yet so please forgive if someone mentioned this already.
Every community has a volunteer draft review board. Not sure how it's organized in each community so I'd recommend contacting the local county clerk to find out. This might be a good idea to "stack the deck" if you have an of-age child.

Hope this helps.

"Mourn not the dead that in the cool earth lie, but rather mourn the apathetic throng, the coward and the meek who see the world's great anguish and its wrong, and dare not speak."
-Ralph Chaplin

reply to post by PokeyJoe

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That's quite a bit of pent up rage you've got there.


The issue isn't that they're afraid of fighting. It's the fact that it's a violation of freedoms to be forced to fight a battle they feel isn't justified.

I'm not proposing whether it is justified or not in this thread. But sending people who feel it isn't justified isn't a trademark of a free nation.

Of course, the war supporters are likely to adhere to current dogma, and retort at me with "but we fought for our freedom" and other phrases that will likely be intended to label me a terrorist sympathizer, or anti American. Give it a rest before you even say it, I've heard it all before.


This battle is not a fight for freedom. I understand some outlets will attempt to spin it as such, but I haven't heard anyone retort with a solid argument when I ask them "How is this a fight for freedom?"

Simply put, this is a fight to maintain control.
You could walk away from this war, intentionally lose it, and your freedoms back home will still be there (Provided your government sees fit to keep them).


My personal view on this war is that the more people the US kills, the more people will want revenge for lost family members, friends, and loved ones. Kill enough of them, and I guarantee you they'll be desperate enough to be capable of making 9/11 look like your average crime.

When you fight people instead of governments, you simply cannot win. Governments can surrender. They can issue orders to lay down arms and negotiate a peace treaty.
But the people you are fighting have no real chain of command. Their actions are based on vengeance. There will be no surrender order. You would quite literally have to exterminate everyone in the region to claim any form of a win... and extermination, is beyond question.

It's not the time to ramp the war up. It's time for damage control.
Yes, the enemy will be here for decades to come. They want payback.
But the more of them you kill, the more of them there will be wanting payback.

You've got yourself into a lose lose situation.

The only thing that should be being discussed in government is how to minimize the damages. Creating more enemies at the moment is not an option.

reply to post by johnsky

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Its not a lot of rage, im actually a very laid back individual. It just bugs me when people who have no idea what they are really talking about start spewing b.s.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with whats going on, you should stand by your country, and if you are able, be willing to do 2 years helping out. The history of this country is littered with wars, and drafts....its not like this is some crazy concept that has never happened in the history of the US...hell it happened in the last major war we had (Vietnam).

reply to post by PokeyJoe

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You know if we really had freedom i would fight tooth and nail to protect it . But thats just the thing . We dont .

Now i bet i could propose a deal that would make most people happy..

Get rid of victim less crimes . I.e. seatbelt laws, Marijuana laws (restrict not prohibit) and the many other crazy "protect you from yourself" laws . .

And this generation MIGHT take you seriously.. But as long as we all feel like we "need protecting" . We not going to latch onto the "protector" role ... EVER.

I mean were so week willed we cant even tell were suicidal and killing ourself slowly .. Why should we have guns ? WE NEED PROTECTING remember?

It don't make sense at all . . Tell us day in and day out were not smart/strong enough to protect our selfs . But were equip to defend a country?

Sounds outrageous to me...


Maybe toss a little trust our way . And we'll do that same for you ?

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05

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On some levels I agree with you...but whether you believe it or not, even today, the average american lives better than anyone else in the world. I have been all over the world, to pretty much every other country, and nothing compares.

I just think that guys just need to man up, and accept it. Being drafted is not the end of the world....actually I think everyone should experience military life for a little bit....it would be good for you.

Originally posted by PokeyJoe
reply to post by d11_m_na_c05

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On some levels I agree with you...but whether you believe it or not, even today, the average american lives better than anyone else in the world. I have been all over the world, to pretty much every other country, and nothing compares.

I just think that guys just need to man up, and accept it. Being drafted is not the end of the world....actually I think everyone should experience military life for a little bit....it would be good for you.

Yeah, in China, cops are not as scummy as those in Chicago and most of the US. Yes in China they gun down people, but in America, when it will happen, it will be on a massive scale. And here they don't machine gun you, they just put you in jail to make profit over you, take everything you've got, take your childrens and if you're really a threat, suicide you. But eh, America WAS better than most country yes. But now it changed and it's DISGUSTING.

We still got time to turn it around, but when the depression hits or another ``terrorist attack`` strikes, it will be hell on earth. And your fantasy image of america will disapear very fast, or you'll DENY everything, just like you seem to do today, unless you don't know what america have become.

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