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Military Draft Discussed in Senate!

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx
What is so wrong with a draft? They did it in WW2.

I think our country has turned into a bunch of pussyfooted pansies and tree-huggers



What's wrong with a bit of loving in the world?




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by Griff
It's about time.

What I mean is you thnk there's dissention now, wait till they institute a draft. Right now it can be said "well, those soldiers volunteered for the army". Wait till that excuse can't be made anymore.

I believe this is the only way we are going to stop this war. Start marching people by gunpoint to their death and it will backfire IMO.


You're correct to point out that this is simply a demo tactic to try and force an end to the war by raising everyone's fears over a draft to a fever pitch. They try the same thing in the House of Representatives every so often.

Not a fan of the war, but also not a fan of this sort of tactic because of other possible unknown consequences - such as basically destroying the effectiveness of the U.S. military. But maybe the demos don't see that as an "unintended consequence" after all (all those people with guns, what to do, what to do) ...


[edit on 5/23/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by paul76

Originally posted by xxpigxx
What is so wrong with a draft? They did it in WW2.

I think our country has turned into a bunch of pussyfooted pansies and tree-huggers



What's wrong with a bit of loving in the world?




Nothing - as long as everyone else feels the same way.

Earth to paul76 - they don't.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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I say, bring it on! If they try to reinstate a military draft, I truly believe the American public will not tolerate it. Maybe this will lead to the past due revolt that we need. The problem is that we are not organized. We need to get organized and fast!!!!



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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I'm actually not against the draft. If it's Rangel's version of it then a form of national service is still viable to fulfill your obligation. I also think that our country would benefit if we had the generations behind us growing up with the draft. I believe we would see a marked drop in crime overall in the nation (due to everyone knowing that the majority of the populace will have been trained to fight back) as well as a more willingness for others to help other people and drop this me me me attitude we've copped as a people. I also think that if you did a mandatory 2 year stint then we would have a much higher success rate of kids going to and graduating from college. Instead of college at 18 you start at 20 with more discipline I'm sure you will find more kids going to school and a more eagerness to make something of yourself.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by phinubian
Inouye and Rangel unfortunately aren't elites but they both are combat veterans, they realize after analyzing the numbers either one of two things has to happen, immediate withdrawal or some sort of forced enlistment or extensions of military service to keep a fresh pool of troops...we know that the immediate withdrawal or actual troop drawdowns is a slim reality at least for the next year or so.


I am not debating the military necessity of instituting the draft and whether or not it may be needed at this time. But there is a huge difference between saying 'our volunteer military forces are getting too weary of combat and we do not have enough reserves to relieve them' and saying 'were spending too much on our volunteer soldiers so we need to get some cheap slave soldiers in there to cut down on the war expenses'. This is essentially what they are saying.




Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), chairman of the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee, asked Gates and Mullen the question he said no one wants to ask: “Is the cost of maintaining an all-volunteer force becoming unsustainable and, secondly, do we need to consider reinstituting the draft.”

Inouye cited the ever-increasing pay and benefits paid to active and reserve service members, noting that it now costs an estimated $126,000 per service member.


The cost of an F-16 in 2006 was approximately $70 million dollars.

US Military Dictionary: Fighting Falcon

One fighter jet costs more than the benefits for over 550 service men. That means that the benefits for all the service men over Iraq right now (approximately 160,000) is less than the cost of 290 fighter jets. Now do you see how absurd a statement this is? The money they are complaining about as an argument for calling the draft up is a pittance. My post, however, was also about the two-faced liars that supposedly represent us in Washington. To our faces they preach from their podiums how they have no intension of incurring the draft and while in session behind the chamber doors they advocate that very thing. Like you said, they know we're (US military) going to be there for quite a while, no matter what they say to our faces and irregardless of which party they represent. All the pro-war/ anti-war, republican/ democrat bull crap is merely for our benefit to keep us divided while they do whatever they please.


Originally posted by grey580
Every year someone brings up the fact that someone in congress puts a draft proposal in a bill.

But it never gets passed, so I wouldn't make to much out of it.



I hope your right but you know the new president, whoever it will be, is not going to want to impose a draft If they plan on doing for Iraq (and possibly Iran) then they will do it before Bush gets out of office. And he won’t care, because he’s done anyway and his ratings are so low they can’t really get any lower. So I feel that now is probably the time to be concerned about this a real possibility.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


I'll admit to not reading the entire thread and breaking one of my own rules here, but I think it's funny that a Democrat congressman deliberately invoked the word "draft" knowing it would spark passionate controversy, and "viola!" here we are discussing how the evil Republicans are considering reinstating the draft -- only the Dems can save us now...



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Havn't read through all the posts yet so please forgive if someone mentioned this already.
Every community has a volunteer draft review board. Not sure how it's organized in each community so I'd recommend contacting the local county clerk to find out. This might be a good idea to "stack the deck" if you have an of-age child.

Hope this helps.

"Mourn not the dead that in the cool earth lie, but rather mourn the apathetic throng, the coward and the meek who see the world's great anguish and its wrong, and dare not speak."
-Ralph Chaplin



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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I think they should institute the draft...

Get all those pussy ass frat boy metrosexuals out there and actually do something for their country instead of wanting everything given to them on a silver platter, and then bitching about it when it doesnt go their way.

And if you get drafted and have to go over to the middle east, there is a 99.98% chance that you are going to come back just fine.

People make me sick who talk about going to Iraq who have never ever stepped a boot in the sand. You dont know jack about what happens over there, so dont believe the hype or what you see on CNN. That goes for a lot of you candy asses posting in this thread.

And if you think im talking about you, I probably am.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by PokeyJoe
 


That's quite a bit of pent up rage you've got there.


The issue isn't that they're afraid of fighting. It's the fact that it's a violation of freedoms to be forced to fight a battle they feel isn't justified.

I'm not proposing whether it is justified or not in this thread. But sending people who feel it isn't justified isn't a trademark of a free nation.

Of course, the war supporters are likely to adhere to current dogma, and retort at me with "but we fought for our freedom" and other phrases that will likely be intended to label me a terrorist sympathizer, or anti American. Give it a rest before you even say it, I've heard it all before.


This battle is not a fight for freedom. I understand some outlets will attempt to spin it as such, but I haven't heard anyone retort with a solid argument when I ask them "How is this a fight for freedom?"

Simply put, this is a fight to maintain control.
You could walk away from this war, intentionally lose it, and your freedoms back home will still be there (Provided your government sees fit to keep them).


My personal view on this war is that the more people the US kills, the more people will want revenge for lost family members, friends, and loved ones. Kill enough of them, and I guarantee you they'll be desperate enough to be capable of making 9/11 look like your average crime.

When you fight people instead of governments, you simply cannot win. Governments can surrender. They can issue orders to lay down arms and negotiate a peace treaty.
But the people you are fighting have no real chain of command. Their actions are based on vengeance. There will be no surrender order. You would quite literally have to exterminate everyone in the region to claim any form of a win... and extermination, is beyond question.

It's not the time to ramp the war up. It's time for damage control.
Yes, the enemy will be here for decades to come. They want payback.
But the more of them you kill, the more of them there will be wanting payback.

You've got yourself into a lose lose situation.

The only thing that should be being discussed in government is how to minimize the damages. Creating more enemies at the moment is not an option.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx
What is so wrong with a draft? They did it in WW2.

I think our country has turned into a bunch of pussyfooted pansies and tree-huggers



If you don't know you have some major learning to do!!!!

Why would I want my son or daughter to go and fight their war in another country for their greed.

I happen to love my kids and I don't want to see them maim or killed before their time. Over money for the government to continue lining their pockets with.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Shar]



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by johnsky
 


Its not a lot of rage, im actually a very laid back individual. It just bugs me when people who have no idea what they are really talking about start spewing b.s.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with whats going on, you should stand by your country, and if you are able, be willing to do 2 years helping out. The history of this country is littered with wars, and drafts....its not like this is some crazy concept that has never happened in the history of the US...hell it happened in the last major war we had (Vietnam).



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by PokeyJoe
 


You know if we really had freedom i would fight tooth and nail to protect it . But thats just the thing . We dont .

Now i bet i could propose a deal that would make most people happy..

Get rid of victim less crimes . I.e. seatbelt laws, Marijuana laws (restrict not prohibit) and the many other crazy "protect you from yourself" laws . .

And this generation MIGHT take you seriously.. But as long as we all feel like we "need protecting" . We not going to latch onto the "protector" role ... EVER.

I mean were so week willed we cant even tell were suicidal and killing ourself slowly .. Why should we have guns ? WE NEED PROTECTING remember?

It don't make sense at all . . Tell us day in and day out were not smart/strong enough to protect our selfs . But were equip to defend a country?

Sounds outrageous to me...


Maybe toss a little trust our way . And we'll do that same for you ?



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 



On some levels I agree with you...but whether you believe it or not, even today, the average american lives better than anyone else in the world. I have been all over the world, to pretty much every other country, and nothing compares.

I just think that guys just need to man up, and accept it. Being drafted is not the end of the world....actually I think everyone should experience military life for a little bit....it would be good for you.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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AAAAAAAAAaaaaaahhhh now if they could only draft those who NEED TO BE DRAFTED, like the sons and daughters of the war-profiteers, Repudlicans, Rush Limburgers, and the well-to-do. But that'll never happen because those who need to be drafted will go crying to the string-pullers and get the Draft legislation tabled for good.

In my day, 1971, you had a draft and only 3 choices: exemption by college attendance, running off to Canada, enlisting in the Guard or Reserve before they called you up. Otherwise it was off to 'Nam after 6 weeks of Basic. I enlisted in the Air Force and had a wonderful time in Florida, followed by South Dakota, and then California. Sure I went where I was told, but it didn't hurt me any, built up my character, and gave me some wonderful experiences. Saw a lot of sights.

So here here for the draft IF it drafts the right people!



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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Perhaps they really expect to expand the war. I have almost gotten to the point where I just don't seem to care any longer. My . just spins with all the crap that is going on in the world. Must be getting old.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by PokeyJoe
reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 



On some levels I agree with you...but whether you believe it or not, even today, the average american lives better than anyone else in the world. I have been all over the world, to pretty much every other country, and nothing compares.

I just think that guys just need to man up, and accept it. Being drafted is not the end of the world....actually I think everyone should experience military life for a little bit....it would be good for you.

Yeah, in China, cops are not as scummy as those in Chicago and most of the US. Yes in China they gun down people, but in America, when it will happen, it will be on a massive scale. And here they don't machine gun you, they just put you in jail to make profit over you, take everything you've got, take your childrens and if you're really a threat, suicide you. But eh, America WAS better than most country yes. But now it changed and it's DISGUSTING.

We still got time to turn it around, but when the depression hits or another ``terrorist attack`` strikes, it will be hell on earth. And your fantasy image of america will disapear very fast, or you'll DENY everything, just like you seem to do today, unless you don't know what america have become.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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I have two children a son and a daughter and I will say "I WILL NOT JUST HAND OVER MY CHILDREN TO THE MILITARY"


If we were being invaded here at home I would fight to the death...
But...I HAVE NOT RAISED MY CHILDREN TO SEE THEM SENT OFF TO A WAR I DO NOT BELIEVE IN...


They would have to rip them from my cold dead arms to do that...

THEY MIGHT AS WELL JUST FINISH ME OFF RIGHT THEN...BECAUSE IT WOULD BE THE THING THAT WOULD BREAK MY ABSOLUTE SANITY...!!!

Sorry...But you military men who say everyone should "HAVE TO SERVE" ...Send your kids if you want...But you can not have mine...


That is my opinion...NEVER AS LONG AS I HAVE A BREATH LEFT IN MY BODY...
Call me Un...American or whatever you want to...I don"t care...

Ahhh...Now that I got that off of my chest...I feel better...



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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The call for a draft has appeared in the Senate several times already, as a few people have already mentioned. Unless another major incident (real, fake, whatever) forces the US into another new war, we are unlikely to see a draft bill pass without alot of congressional dissention. Right now, much of the American populace is bitter and angry with the goverment and a bill wouldn't pass without major civilian repurcussions. If another 9-11 type event happens, however, it could pass in a heartbeat and much of American would unfortunately be behind it.

With that being said... I am against a full-on draft for war. I am, however, in support of a national service plan which will allow individuals to select the manner in which they are to serve their country. A plan similar to those found in several other countries.

Just my two cents.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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Everyone needs calm down. This is a total, complete load of BS. The Republicans don't want it, the Democrats don't want it. There will not be a draft in the foreseeable future.

This is an ELECTION YEAR SCARE TACTIC. That's all it is.

The Democrats have done this for the last three election cycles. You'd think that by now people would be wise to it. There's nothing to see here, folks, just like there wasn't in 2004 or in 2006.




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