Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids

Only in America (and your enemy Muslim countries) do people defend polygamy. What kind of strange justification is really needed to defend polygamy?

We have Mennonites here where I am. And they're inbred, often deformed, uneducated and barbaric. There is a lot of father-daughter incest in these communities. The parents make the kids leave school in grade six and start working, and then take their paychecks until they get married. And they have a tradition where the same day that the chick births a kid the husband has to do her that day. Overall, the only saving grace is that eventually they will be so ibred that they will die out altogether. Thank Darwin for that.

reply to post by Merle8


Sounds like an exact description of allot of states in the "bible belt" Are we going to take all there kids away too ?
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I am willing to bet once this is over there membership grows 100%
Besides everything that has been proven a lie . This place sounds like utopia.. I mean who wouldn't want to live there ?


Anyway whats really funny is i find all marriage "barbaric" and "sexist"

I think its great you can have 200 girlfriends but once you cross that line of wanting to be with more than one person at a time (for life) its "un godly" or wrote off as crazy..
Hell you can hardly survive in a 2 person home comfortably.. I know if i had a few extra people around paying bills and taking care of things. Things would probably be much better in my life.

Imagine ladies . Don't feel like putting out for the hubby ? Tell wife #3 its her turn and get your rest . Heck most of you are being cheated on anyway . At least this way you can get in on the action or out of doing the work yourself and still benefit. I mean if there pulling in an income thats going to your family. And you. At least there not getting the "milk" for free right?.

I dunno . I hate any rule/law based on a religious belief/faith. But it seems to me that there only keeping up with inflation..



[edit on 23-5-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

reply to post by WhamBamTYM


When I was younger, I did a lot of work for mennonites, and they are nothing like the flds at that ranch.

I think everyone would agree that everyone needs their own space and privacy, at least once in a while. That said, did anyone see the cnn special where one of the mothers took a camera crew around the compound, and did you notice all the women sleep in the same room. Mothers and daughters all in the same room constantly, no privacy- EVER! Not mentally healthy at any age.

This is the greatest control method. Undoutedly if any of the children or mothers have anything negitive to say about their male masters, someone in that room will run to tell daddy to curry favour. That women who wrote that book recently about the flds said that is what bothered her most as well. It seems after that beast Jeff's took over, all the women were placed in rooms together with the men in their own private, individual rooms.

I can't also forget the picture's of the rapist in every room and hall, and the parents are all 100% ok with it.

The gov was and is obviously out of line, but I can't get past that sicko Jeff's and the parents support of him. I can't help but feel in the long run the children will be safer away from this society.

What a mess!

reply to post by Merle8


You have bought into CPS propoganda. CPS has proven themselves to be liars. You had better not come to Texas if you are under 28 or you can legally be detained by foster care workers as a minor. I wonder if CPS workers also consider the men who have relations with 28 year olds to be molestors. I'm guessing probably. You are probably a very liberal person who was forced by a group of religious people to wear a scarlet letter and now you hate all of religions. At this moment you are siding with the prudish people you hate against a weird group they are persecuting. At most there are five pregnant girls who might be minors and then again they might not be minors. They might have been impregnated by older men and they might not have been impregnated by older men. There are many pregnant girls in Texas who are probably victims of abuse. CPS is not checking on them. Why are the FLDS pregnant girls worthy of all this attention because they are white, and their religion forbids drinking and drug use. So people in Texas want their babies. Add to this their ranch is valuable and the FDLS people have refused to sell it. Four hundred eleven children many of whom are under five are suffering brutally in the Texas foster care sytem for no good reason.

Once again, religion (i.e. any offshoots of Mormonism) is getting out of hand with too much corruption! This includes sexual abuse and child endangerment, whereby the laws of land are supposed to protect children. The children should play and have fun until they are ready to get married with their own free will and not be forced to make babies at such early ages with older men. That’s disgusting.

And the women should use their moral conscious to protect their children from these abusers than rely on the dogmas and teachings of their religious sect. This is the opportunity for the state of Texas to weed out the pedophiles from the general populace. It’s not fair to prevent the children for mingling with ‘outsiders’. There is so much to learn and people to meet outside the boundaries of this compound, a virtual prison for some.

reply to post by pikypiky


Your post makes no sense.. What abuse? Who are the pedo's you speak of?
Your just making stuff up as you go aren't you ?

Do you have the result of the pelvic exams that no one else has seen? Seem like you MUST have some insight no one else has..

Do you at least have a study to back up you claim that kids need interaction with the "world" to grow up as "productive" adults?

Seems like your just mad that they have a nice life away from all the troubles of the world . Which i just cant seem to understand..



BTW: Why would girls be able to make babies so young if they were not meant to ? Heck seems like "god" did it for a reason right?

[edit on 23-5-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

reply to post by pikypiky


Actually, it is the parents bussiness to keep certain kinds of people away from their kids especially CPS workers.The outside world is no freind of little children. If CPS workers did not show over and over how inept they are at protecting little children from child molestors and murderers their would be less outcry. Even though CPS knew they were being watched they still allowed harm to come to the kids they took from FDLS. CPS did not feed an unweaned 13 month baby for 24 hour after they ripped him out of his mothers arms. He ended up in the hospital.There is still no proof of illegal activity even though 411 children are suffering in foster care. CPS is a dispicable organization.They are even worse than the Jim Jones cult.

I am glad that the Court ruled in favor of the family.

And all i can hope for, is that those Child-snatching vermin in the CPS get whats coming after them...

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker


When I was younger, I did a lot of work for mennonites, and they are nothing like the flds at that ranch.

I think everyone would agree that everyone needs their own space and privacy, at least once in a while. That said, did anyone see the cnn special where one of the mothers took a camera crew around the compound, and did you notice all the women sleep in the same room. Mothers and daughters all in the same room constantly, no privacy- EVER! Not mentally healthy at any age.

But its Ok for 200 army or marine men to sleep in the same room in the same barracks in the name of war. Or on a smaller scale when people werent buying 4 and 5 bedroom houses sisters would sleep in the same room and same with brothers. We live in a society where all the kids get their own rooms and all the privacy they want and they hate their parents. Family values down the tubes. They dont eat together or anything.

I just found this and thought it applied here so well ..


Take the story of the Mexican fisherman as an example:
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The American Tourist and the Mexican Fisherman

An American tourist was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked.

Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The tourist complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “Only a little while.”

The tourist then asked, “Why didn’t you stay out longer and catch more fish?”

The Mexican said, “With this I have more than enough to support my family’s needs.”

The tourist then asked, “But what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life.”

The tourist scoffed, ” I can help you. You should spend more time fishing; and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat: With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats. Eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor; eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You could leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then Los Angeles and eventually New York where you could run your ever-expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

The tourist replied, “15 to 20 years.”

“But what then?” asked the Mexican.

The tourist laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions.”

“Millions?…Then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
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The Mexican Fisherman had all he needed to make him happy. The American Tourist kept trying to convince the Mexican Fisherman that he needed to work a lot and make millions before he could be happy with the things he had anyway.

If you really look at the big picture, is it the millions of dollars that you really want, or what the millions of dollars bring? Unless you want to have a lot of money to impress all the other people with a lot of money, most people would say what the millions of dollars bring. I don’t believe anyone wants to go through some of the soul-crushing things that people do in order to hopefully become a millionaire one day. Being a faceless part of a giant corporation that cares little about the real, living, breathing, human being, can be disheartening.
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I think this is exactly whats happening here . These people have the life most only dream of . It dont make sense so they try to take it away and make them earn it back ..
Its a huge crock .. Noone makes money off them so there worthless..
And i think thats the real issue here..

Source in original context : How to Live Like a Millionaire Without Being One



[edit on 23-5-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

nothing about CPS but its disgusting how these people live, women worshipping the men and some idiot idol of theirs. just disgusting and what these kids are much better off without them teaching them what they are

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


Nice Post d11_m_na_c05. You should read Revelations again. All though it takes God's Spirit, to really understand it.
What you describe is the antithesis of the Last Word Empire; and all the Empires of man. That have come and gone. From Egypt, Babylon, Media Persia, Rome, and the rest. They all raise up to be iconic tributes to the
greatness of their builders. Then they are razed by the same humans.
Broken in the dust again. Christ is pictured as a rock, cutout without human hands that strikes the last Empire of man on it's feet. Laying it to dust. That is in the book of Daniel, if you prefer the Old Testament. Written thousands of years earlier. Finally the easy peaceful life, your story discribes so well; shall rule the earth for a thousand years. Hope you live to see it.

reply to post by mybigunit



Amry men sharing a barracks is just that...... MEN!!!! Not children. Bit of a maturity and experince difference there. Of coarse many children share a bedroom, but not normaly with their parents.

You find it normal for the wives to sleep in a seperate compound from the men? I should think a married couple would sleep in the same room, maybe in seperate beds at the least. Also this group is rich, they can easily afford seperate bedrooms but choose not to, it has nothing to do with money considerations.

If you can find anything that says having no privacy ever is healthy, I'll eat my hat.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


When did this thread degenerate into a debate about if this group had a perfect social system? Are you suggestion the rest of us do?
Do they have a right to live as they please, within the law of the land?


[edit on 23-5-2008 by Howie47]

Originally posted by Howie47
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

When did this thread degenerate into a debate about if this group had a perfect social system? Are you suggestion the rest of us do?
Do they have a right to live as they please, within the law of the land?


[edit on 23-5-2008 by Howie47]

I have already stated that the government was wrong then and now. The problem is this group literaly worships a conviceted sicko called Warren Jeffs. We most certainly don't live in a perfect social system but the fact is this groups beliefs conflict with the law of the land. They have every right to live WITHIN THE LAW OF THE LAND like the rest of us, but just because they think its ok to have sex with 13 year old girls doesn't mean its legal inside their compound.

You said it yourself, they have a right to live within the law as they please.
Unfourtunently they have set up their own laws that conflict with those of the land.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


I wont deny I personally think privacy is a good thing Im just saying we in modern society in ways some people dont get privacy and I say to you if that is how these guys want to live who are you and I to tell them. If it makes them happy then it makes them happy. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness its not life, conformation, and the pursuit of what makes everyone else happy. People shouldnt have to conform to a society if they dont want to. If it makes them happy then it makes them happy that is why America was founded. For people who want to live their own lives without persecution.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
They have every right to live WITHIN THE LAW OF THE LAND like the rest of us, but just because they think its ok to have sex with 13 year old girls doesn't mean its legal inside their compound.

You said it yourself, they have a right to live within the law as they please.
Unfourtunently they have set up their own laws that conflict with those of the land.

Have they been convicted of not living within the law? Jeffs was and hes now in jail. Has anyone else? No so until then as far as Im concerned they are innocent. If they are found guilty in a court of law then so be it. If they did indeed rape 10 year olds then balls need to drop but until then who are we to judge.

Originally posted by Howie47
reply to post by SuperSlovak

 

The problem with your kind of thinking is; it ends up being a witch hunt.
Maybe all the children of the government agencies involved in this, should be rounded up. Subject to, pelvic examines, DNA testing, drug testing and questioned as to the atmosphere of their homes. With all results of, SDTs, pregnancies, abortions. drug and alcohol use, who beget who, made public?

you know what Polygamy is right?

definition of polygamy: in the most basic sense refers to a marriage that involves multiple spouses, instead of two. Polygamy has been practiced for centuries but has been eliminated in most modern societies.

according to the polygamist leader jeff, its ok for underage girls to have grandpas as husbands. if they wont save their children from destruction, then the state will.


[edit on 23-5-2008 by SuperSlovak]

Originally posted by mybigunit
Have they been convicted of not living within the law? Jeffs was and hes now in jail. Has anyone else? No so until then as far as Im concerned they are innocent. If they are found guilty in a court of law then so be it. If they did indeed rape 10 year olds then balls need to drop but until then who are we to judge.

I believe by the time this is over some of the adluts will be charged. I'm am however a believer in due process and innocent unitl proven guilty, and yes the gov has broken the law and reparations are in order here.

And btw, yes one other man from the ranch was convicted of rape and it is fact that the leader at the ranch is still taking instructions from Jeffs, so I cannot in good conscience say I feel sorry for this group. They were screwed by the law, but in my opinion they had it coming by supporting/worshipping Jeffs.

reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread357305/pg5#pid4378591]post b

 

There is still no evidence that young girls in this sub group of that sect continued the practice. There are five pregnant girls and there is still a chance that they are not minors. Whichever State took down jeffries did so without all the hoopla in the Texas raid. The state is not so saving those 411 kids by putting them in foster if anything they will suffer even more abuse in foster care than they would have with their parents. This is just the state using a weird group to try and acclimate people to mass kidnappings. I'm not buying any of the justications being put out by CPS apologists for treating children like cattle.