Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids

Court: Texas had no right to take polygamists' kids

news.yahoo.com

SAN ANGELO, Texas - A state appellate court has ruled that child welfare officials had no right to seize more than 400 children living at a polygamist sect's ranch.
he Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were "legally and factually insufficient" under Texas law. They did not immediately order the return of the children.

Child welfare officials removed the children on the grounds that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and trained bT

(visit the link for the full news article)

Flag this thread!!!!
I can't believe that the right thing has happened here? What does this mean?
I had to follow the links before I could really get to the meat of this. It seems that CPS was wrong all along, and this was done merely to condemn a religious group who are on the "fringe".
news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Here is a great site dealing with what this thread has turned towards... CPS do not protect children. Fight CPS

[edit on 22-5-2008 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by jasonjnelson]

reply to post by jasonjnelson


This is good news ,but it will be better news when CPS is forced to return all those kids. Also ,CPS needs to knock it off with the reformation of the FDLS women. Those kids should go back without any strings attatched. If CPS workers want to convert those women, they should do it on their own dime. If any good comes of this tragedy, I hope CPS learns to give people due process.

so after reading the article, it still states that there is little chance that these people will be reunited anytime today, but this does get them out of creepy CPS.... Thank God for small favors. Now this group will finally get it's legal say, and we will all get the truth, not what they want us to hear. This case has bothered me for a while though....Maybe some good comes of this?

reply to post by eradown


I'm not sure of the conversion you mean, but I do think that we have created a lot of possible home-growns in Texas by now. No one can possibly imagine the trauma that this organization (CPS) causes, unless you have dealt with them. I now get why people have accused them of being a satanic sex ring operator.

reply to post by jasonjnelson


It should mean that the parents can walk in to the halfway houses, get their kids and take them home. But it won't. The state will file an appeal and drag it out. If they lose that they'll probably change the laws to say that all FLDS members are pedophiles or they'll just bring in the tanks and burn the FLDS community to the ground.

reply to post by ColdWater


Yeah, maybe living through events like Waco have opened my eyes to some of the STUPID things that government can do. What happened here? Some uptight local judge decided that this sect was just too different for their tastes? What about the Amish? are they next?
My brother just argued with me, telling me that the group is all brainwashed, thats why there is no evidence. I told him that there never was "evidence" in the first place. This was all a crock to test their will against fringe groups. Luckily, the group had no weapons...

reply to post by jasonjnelson


There was a very strong anticultural and anti mormon bias against those people (I am not talking about polygamy or statutory rape). The state workers confiscated the bibles of some of the children. Even though it was proven in court that quite a few of the couples were monogamous non minors, CPS workers demanded that even those women move far away from their husbands and get jobs. They also objected to homeschooling in particular. I think CPS busy bodies wanted the FDLS women to become carbon cobies of themselves. CPS has behaved like really evil missionaries. If CPS workers want to prosthelitize their ways, they should take lessons from the Jehova's Witnesses and do so on their own time and their own dime.

reply to post by eradown


I agree. This would never have happened at a "muslim school".
I think that there are people who love to persecute others. I think that it is easy for them to pick on a group that is outside the mainstream. But in the end, I hope that CPS are sued and disbanded. The re is NO organization in this country as evil or destructive.
Now I know why some people lose it on these gov't agencies, lol..

damn u beat me to it grrrrrrrrrrrrrr ive been on this case forever.......oh well it happens finally justice is done.. and I hope the lawsuits fly. This is so unamerican how this all went down.

[edit on 22-5-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by mybigunit


I'm sorry, I just love this forum. You should see my header bar. I have, like, 50 different world news, and I've loaded up all the locals by state. Its killing me that I still get most of mine from yahoo, or the chinese version of it.
So since you have been following this for days, can you help me out with a longer post?
Maybe something we don't know?

This is going to end up one of two ways. The people of Texas are going to find out they have the same type justice department that ruined Duke Universities lacross team......or another Waco incedent .!!!! I sincerely hope its the former and NOT the latter. I was brought up by three generations of Mormon preachers. This type of persecution has been rampant since the churches inception. Where is Porter Rockwell when we need him now!!!!

Zindo

Does any of this change the fact that children as young as 14 are being married to men old enough to be their fathers. Can a 14 year old girl who has been taught only what the men at the ranch allow (their prophet leader is a convicted child rapist who encouraged child rape) really know thats how she wants to live her life?

I'm not arguing the legal issues here, just the moral issues.

These children are basically growing up in a closed society that allows no outside contact. Is this really any different than communism or facism, not being aloud to even expand your mind and being told what you are allowed to think and say?

The one thing that really bothers me is the "keep sweet" that the girls are tought. To me that means not objecting to molestation.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Well, first of all, they have found no such thing at this site. This is something that has been seen at other places, but no evidence to support that claim here. Otherwise, they wouldn't have dropped it, would they?
Second, as for the age thing. That woman should marry after 20, or whatever society picks now, is a new concept. In the world today, ask in every country, and you will get a different idea of what is right.
As for people being raised and "forced" to believe the same things? Have you seen half of the fundamentalist states that exist in this world? You are only taught what the "men" of this country have allowed. Ever think about that?
And if integrating ourselves into common society is a requirement, how long before the Amish are prosecuted for not allowing their young access to the internet or whatever.
If the man was a convicted child rapist, would he be allowed near other children? I don't know that he is? Or, let me guess, he is not there anymore?

The bigger issue is the fact that MANY were punished for the accused behavior of a FEW! Children were taken from their parents, all because the neighbors didn't think that they shared the same values.

WAKE UP!

[edit on 22-5-2008 by jasonjnelson]

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


It turns that the FDLS people in this case did not contiue their former practices. The lawyer for the 14 year old fdls girl that was kidapped in Texas, the one the state claimed was pregnant, is saying the girl was not now and never was pregnant. Over half the young fdls teenage minor girls that were kidnapped are turning out to be women. Imagine CPS workers even think 27 year olds are minors. This even though CPS confiscated the women's driver liscences.This thing went from being a hoax to being a farce.

Sorry that it was a short post I've done several threads on these guys like here
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

and

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

and here

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Because to me from the very start this case was against so many constitutional rights and it was so obvious to me that I couldnt figure out how people were arguing on it. We are living in a society where the press decides your guilt and not a court. These guys were guilty of everything before they even got a trial yes like the Duke boys zindo. Its starting to happen frequent where you hear about cops intruding in wrong peoples houses and firing at innocent people because they dont investigate first. Innocent people draw guns thinking its a robber breaking in and the cops shoot him. Then you have the Waco and this situation I mean this is a case where the police state is getting out of control.

Im so glad they found it illegal but like someone said this will not get their children back. More games will be played but its a start and like I said Im not for mass lawsuits but it is justified here.

Dogma from one sect to another isn't just a problem with this church. Your right about the morals involved. This mans record should speak to the parents as to they're complicity in being members. Marriage age in religious organizations has always raised serious questions. If the damned prosecutors had done due dilligence before the grandstand act they puled this might have been a way to clean it up and show this so called preacher for what he is. .Now its going to be hard on everyone ,mostly the children.

Zindo

reply to post by eradown


And then people wonder why things like Waco go down. This was BS, has been BS for weeks, and I wish to GOD that I had the power to immediately disband CPS.

CPS, you have ruined too many lives to count, hurting the young that you were sworn to protect.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Dogma from one sect to another isn't just a problem with this church. Your right about the morals involved. This mans record should speak to the parents as to they're complicity in being members. Marriage age in religious organizations has always raised serious questions. If the damned prosecutors had done due dilligence before the grandstand act they puled this might have been a way to clean it up and show this so called preacher for what he is. .Now its going to be hard on everyone ,mostly the children.

Zindo

But its their choice to be members. There are some who have left the church because they felt it was not for them but the people who are there choose to be there and that is what America is about. Religions and societies all over the world marry off the daughters to older men look at India or hell a lot of the arab nations do that because that is what they believe. You right as far as there is a way to go about this investigate and then raid instead the way it was handled. I do feel this was all about their way of life. They tried yanking everything of these people from their kids to their land to their $114 million dollar trust fund. This is American and who are they to tell these people how they are to live. If they are raping 10 year olds that is a different story and like I have said before at that point whoever did it should lose their balls. Im for a loose law system but for the laws you do break I think punishment should fit the crime.

There was a young women on the news lately. That came out of that group a few years ago. She was very angry against them. I think she is a good suspect. For the one who called in the false accusation. They should do a voice analysis of the original call and this girls voice. If they match she should be charged accordingly. If she was conspiring with CPS, to make this false report. They could put the squeeze on her and find out.