The passengers of Flight 93 and 77

Hello to all on ATS. Just joined and have one burning question. I couldn't find a specific thread relating to the passengers of these flights, so:

If Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, and Flight 93 didn't crash in Pensylvania, then where are the passengers? Families buried empty boxes, people have gone, but where?

I know there was a report on the day referring to the disembarking and debriefing of the 33 passengers and crew of 93 at Cleveland Airport, but I have also read that this was a false report.

I don't know of any explanation for the whereabouts of the 56 people from Flight 77.

I apologise if this is a repeat thread, but in my search efforts of ATS, I found no clear existing one. If it does, could your point me in the right direction?

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Just found it. Apologies indeed.

I'm new at this!

Your patience is appreciated!




[edit on 22-5-2008 by Sendran]

reply to post by Sendran

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Yes, this has been addressed on many occasions on ATS. Flight 93 did not land in Cleveland (thats been demolished on ATS many times as well) it crashed in Shanksville. What was left of the crew, passengers and terrorists was recovered from the crash site and identified...same thing with Flight 77.

I had a wacky theory that all the passengers we all actually NSA, CIA, etc agents. For example, some government employees aren't even allowed to share with their family anything real about their job. Their families think they are businessmen/woman or traveling salespeople or whatever. So, in order to lie to your family, I'm sure there were several hundred agents that could disappear from reality, perhaps doing covert operations underground in the US, doing covert operations overseas, or you name it where anonymous people are needed. I'm not saying I even believe this too much, but it popped into my mind maybe a year ago. I really don't think it would be too hard to pull off. Our government has some of the most intelligent people working for them. Of course, on the level that everyone sees, there's ton of incompetence, but as far as the high level stuff, I'm sure the dumbest guy working for them is smarter by far than even the average highly educated American. Anyhow, just thought I'd provide one more theory, even if it is a tad bit far fetched. With all the stuff going on these days, the US could use thousands upon thousands of faceless, nameless people. 9/11 would have been a win-win situation for them if it was an inside job. Not only do they get a few hundred people now who have no identity because they are officially dead, but the tragedy of 9/11 gave us a "start a few wars for free" card. Then again, maybe all the passengers actually did die hostages to a terrorist attack. At this point, really anything is still possible, especially since there hasn't been proof for or against any of the theories out there, from conspiracies to the official story.


JPT

UMMM NO IT DIDNT!

It has been proven as FACT that ....No plane crashed in Shankville on 911. Shanksville was the simulated crash site exercise/drill taking place on 911.

The wtc and pentagon were also targets in the 911 wargame terror exercises/ drills.

Wow, talk about differences in opinions -
This is what I have surpossed to have some resimblance of what happend.

flight 93 - eyewit - states plane not much bigger than her VAN.
---- Passed with Flying Colors -- Lie Detecting Software ----
*pretty accurate software. it nails me and every person that I know who lied into it - (its only software) I got mine off of Bittorrent, mininova

No evidence of a Plane at shanksville, PA. just debris - nothing from a 757 that I'm aware of was recovered. As part of an exercise we learned that we have a C130 in the area (the truck of the skies), and all debris could have been pushed out the back of it, its was designed for fast in flight unloading. ... Not sure, if this was a decoy or what, it appears to be a decoy - that would prove America defended herself.
Later on 911 we have a report of a plane crash at Camp King David.
I suspect this plane was to take out WTC7, nothing just a brief report.

I suspect the Pentecon, was a fly over of a large jet on the Left side of the Citgo station and the Missle (cruise) or Global Hawk what ever, came in 15ft. above the ground timed with the flyover, the missle went Right of Citgo and the plane went left of Citgo,
we have a eyewit - the Cab Driver, he fails misseribly on the software.
we have two police officers - both of whom, come back inconclusive...

as for people on board these jets. Loose Change 2E Recut -- reported - they may have exited flight 93 in cleveland International, something weird happend at Cleveland, it seems we have the exact number of people supposedly totalled 200 in four planes... 200 exited and went into NASA building at Cleveland and no word since.

I suspect given the skills most of the personnel on those flights possessed I would say they are working for the GOVT in some capacity, maybe staffing the under bases or the like who knows... I just think loss of life was limited on 911.. it could have been much worse..

I actually hope that loss of life was limited. Though, if this was a big set up, inside job, then the loss of life of Iraqi citizens FAR outwieghs the American lives possibly saved by them being gov employees.

On another note, was there anyone that said anything about seeing a missile anywhere near the pentagon as far as the flight path leading up to it, like say a mile away? Where would the missile have been launched from? Ground? Plane?


JPT

yes, you will find that interview, white man, 35ish states CRUISE MISSLE.
I think that is in Loose Change final cut.

A mission like launch a missle, that would probably been done by a Submarine off the Coast. I heard questions asked but havent heard the response to that question. I say this because there were Military exercises going on, and since I use to type the damn things - I would have a missle launched by submarine to separate the environments, a sub can stay out to sea 6+ months and for sure if 911 was an inside job, I would pull a sub up from PortoRico on its way to a North Atlantic staging area, to launch a simulated attack on WDC, with a drone missle (no-warhead) for the defense systems test of the Pentegon. only one problem, someone launched a missle - all missles are inventoried and there is a paper trail. I dont know how you would get your hands of ordinance expenditures though.


[edit on 22-5-2008 by 888LetsRoll]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by 888LetsRoll]

Okay, so now there's gotta be eyewitnesses that would say they saw a missile heading from the southern US to DC. Many, if not most Americans had NO idea that they were doing mock drills that day. There should be maybe a few reports from each state the missile flew over that would have seen it. I suppose it could have been pretty high in the atmosphere, but I don't know what type of missile they would use. I'm not against any of the theories really, I just want some more evidence that lends itself to a certain one. The witnesses seeing a plane on the opposite side of the gas station was pretty good, when the official flight path went over the other side. I found this to be a great find, but aside from that fact, I haven't seen enough of anything else to satisfy good evidence. One person seeing a missile isn't strong to me. It's better than none though! Anyhow, thanks for the replies. I'll be curious to see what else you come up with. Something is definitely not right with the official story and that's about all I know.


JPT

reply to post by 888LetsRoll

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www.rcfp.org...
www.rcfp.org...
www.rcfp.org...
www.rcfp.org...


Then you need to do some more research.




Sorry, but it wasnt part of any exercise, it was a C-130 out of Minneapolis Air Force Reserve Base. At last check, the crew of that particular plane are getting a bit pissy about being accused of being involved with a "conspiracy"




And also a car bomb at the State Department, a government ordered shutdown of all oil refineries and even a report that they were considering a checkpoint on I-80 at the Mississippi River bridge.......and NONE of them were true.




The only people that debarked a jet at the NASA building that day, were NASA employees that were on board a KC-135 that was forced to land in Cleveland by the FAA grounding order.

On 9/11 was working in Bayway refinery in Linden NJ - many of my
co-workers on the top floors of our buildings watched the second plane
smash into the South Tower. They let everyone out around 2 pm
(except for essential plant operators - us office drones sent home)
every off duty and spare cop in the area was on the gates and
cranes were placing concrete barriers across roads. Trucks were
being stopped away from plant while driver checked out. For next several
months was like running saloom course between concrete barriers to
get in.


Problem with rumors is take on life of their own and many people mistake
them for truth....

Thanks for the posts people.

A mixed bag of views, the beauty of this topic.

Currently, I do not believe that the two flights impacted at the locations stated officially. The evidence at the Pentagon is overwhelming. I remember Lockerbie here in the UK and the wreckage was huge, and the plane was destroyed at altitude so you would expect a less dense scattering of debris over a wider area. 77 hit the Pentagon in one spot, and there was next to nothing, little enough for the emergency services to be so close to the building. Shanksville had a similar low amount of debris, and even less of an impact crater or gouge.

More research may change my opinion, for now though, there were no planes at the two sites.

I seem to remember the flight numbers for these two planes, or possibly just one, still being in service?

Also, it wasn't until 2004 that cell phone communication was demonstrated on airliners. How then could all those people make all those calls?

Don't want to get sidetracked off this topic, so will leave the rest of my 9-11 theories for other threads.

On a side note, just a quickie, what are peoples opinions on Loose Change?

There is absolutely no comparision between a pressurized 747 at altitude being destroyed by a bomb and a high speed 757/767 crashing into a building. Flight 77, or at least what was left of it, penetrated what...80 feet into the building? So no, you arent going to have a debris field filled with huge sections of the jet. You will end up with a bunch of metal confetti with some large pieces, and the majority of the airplane in the building....oh wait,...thats what happened at the Pentagon..




Again, no comparision, Flight 93 impacted nose down into relatively soft ground at high speed. Or do you not realize that they ended up digging almost 50 feet into the ground to retrieve the wreckage? Of which, according to official statements....almost 95% of the mass was recovered?????

You want more evidence - SO DO WE -
what we know is by picking up pieces and looking at them,
the odds of us figuring our exactly what happend... NIL
but what we have been able to piece together suggest we need to conviene a Grand Jury with Subpenea power. and then maybe we can understand what really went on.

If you look at the Flight data that the Govt released... the plane flew over the pentecon. their evidence of a jet, could not have possibly taken place.
the air craft could not have done such a maneuver as claimed.
eyewits - and on ground distrubances do not match the facts.. ???
so your guess is as good as anyone elses at this point.

Vote Ron Paul and we might be able to get to know 2% of what went on.

Nobody thinks this fact is amazing but me:
There was only one child killed on 9/11.

You can't throw a rock in the USA without hitting a child. How could this happenstance occur? It mystifies me. Anybody else mystified?

Earthman4, I did not know that. One child out of how many?

Although the majority of fatalities took place in the WTC buildings, not somewhere to find a child at 9am. We shall see what the long term damage does however.

Interesting fact all the same.

reply to post by earthman4

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Sorry, but thats not true. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two kids, one was a young girl (2-3 years old I think) and then an young man whose father had put on Flight 77 to go visit family.

Just been reading "9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon".

Very interesting reading, especially the structural design of an aircraft. Hasn't swayed me completely Swampfox, but it has given me food for thought.

I read elsewhere you have aviation experience, useful in this arena.

reply to post by earthman4

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While I am starting to jump on the 9/11 conspiracy "band wagon"...that is NOT true. I know of 8 children to perish that day.

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77,
Bernard Curtis Brown Age 11: Student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom age 11: Student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens age 11: Student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.


The Faulkenberg Family: Both Parents died (Charles Faulkenberg and Leslie Whittington) along with their children Zoe Falkenberg age 8 and Dana Falkenberg age 3. The professor of public policy (Leslie Whittington) at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

UNITED AIRLINES FLIGHT 175
David Reed Gamboa Brandhorst age 3: Ronald Gamboa, his partner Daniel Brandhorst, 42, and their son David Brandhorst, 3, were on one of many family trips.

YOUNGEST VICTIM: Christine Lee Hanson age 2: Was traveling with her parents Peter Hanson and Sue Jue Kim-Hanson.

Juliana Valentine McCourt age 4: Traveling with her mother Ruth Magdaline McCourt.

NO CHILDREN ABOARD UNITED FLIGHT 93

NO CHILDREN ABOARD AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 11

Now that is what I have found. It does seem odd. Not a whole lot of children on those flights. I take heart in that though. Thank God there wasn't that many children.

So I have a few subjects to dabble in. If a car hit a solid dirt wall would it penetrate it? Would it get smashed up into tiny peices? It sure as Hell would not.

Skanksville ground scar(impact crater) was at the crash site before it happened. It was a natural geological feature of this rock we call Earth. Even when a plane goes into a full 90 degree dive and hits the ground it will leave big chunks of plane, wheels, engines. Where are the engines? They should be in the "crash site". This is rock and dirt, not water. The remains of the plane wouldn't go further than a few feet. Go shoot a 30.06 into the ground, you can dig it out with a garden spade. That bullet, at full muzzle velocity, will go far deeper than a plane. Its size, shape, speed, are all better suited for penetration. Yet it can't go very deep into earth, because its not a drill, nor is a plane.

Are you really going to believe a photo that is taken and published by the government. This is the group of people under speculation, wouldn't they want you to "know the truth". Also the parts of plane are very old, metal can't get that type of oxidation that quickly, even with heat from fire. The color is also to evenly spread on the metal. Anealing, is a process in which metal is heated then cooled, it puts somewhat of a rainbow finish on the area. Provide more than 4 pics of "pieces a plane". I dont see a Skanksville city limits sign.

Do you know anything about NASA? This is a government agency that has buildings that seem to be 10 stories tall only to have 50+ basement levels. What would they put in there?

Try to think back further, 9/11 is just a product of technology. If the passegers of the Lucitania all had cell phones and Handy Cams this would have happened. The media is really what controls the situation, not by what you see now, but how we have been trained to believe whatever comes out of that box sence the 50's. The PC isn't that much better, just a more access to the possibility of truth.

Thank you so much, I have wanted to hear more opinions on this subject, by all means there is no offense ment just my 10 cents, so please spare us the cyber bash. Thaniks again.