Abiotic theory of oil - 'infinite' supply, page


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reply posted on 22-5-2008 @ 09:31 AM by nitrobandit
reply to post by hschlang



What I don't understand is why are all the outer planets loaded with methane? Is that something that gets formed in prior suns and supernova's like heavier elements such as gold and high pressure crystals like diamonds? Is it possible under the pressure of a supernova to press methane into oil? If so is it possible that all the methane burned off or evaporated from the earth during formation and only oil remained...maybe even filling the earth?


reply posted on 22-5-2008 @ 10:39 AM by TheRedneck
Hi and welcome, hschlang

I am pretty familiar with the abiotic oil theory, and tend to believe in it. We pump millions of barrels of oil out of the ground every day and have done so for decades. That's a lot of dead dinosaurs!

There is also the fact that many oil wells around the world have been pumped dry and capped, only to discover a couple years later that there's plenty of oil in them. I doubt that more T-Rex's died in that couple of years.

As to the origin of abiotic oil, there is a theory on that: we normally see chemical change as some form of 'burning'... we burn gasoline, converting hydrocarbons into water and CO2. We burn wood, with the same effect. Coal, methane, diesel fuel, the list goes on. For the average layman, the idea of something burning under water (i.e. a reaction rather than an oxidation) seems miraculous.

Yet oxygen on our planet is confined to two areas of nature: free oxygen which is contained in our atmosphere, mostly due to photosynthesis from fauna, and as oxides, which have that oxygen pretty well locked up in compounds. Inside the earth's crust, there is no free oxygen to oxidize substances.

There is hydrogen. Hydrogen does not bond with other substances as strongly as oxygen (this is the basis for acid-base reactions). There is also an abundance of carbon. Under the high heat and pressures inside the earth, that carbon will naturally bond with hydrogen to form... [drum beat] ...hydrocarbons! Which we then pump out of the crust as oil.

In short, it is the anaerobic reaction of the most abundant element in the universe (hydrogen) with the most abundant element in the earth's crust (carbon). It happens other places as well; as nitrobandit pointed out, multiple outer planets have entire atmospheres of methane, which is itself a hydrocarbon, just lighter than those contained in crude oil.

In short, we are not running out of dead dinosaurs. We may at some point be using oil as fast as the planet can make it, but we aren't there yet. There is no oil shortage at present or in the near future.

TheRedneck


reply posted on 22-5-2008 @ 09:54 PM by cruzion
I decided to go and do some reading on an interesting subject, as I had no knowledge of it.
As a typical example of the info out there, the very first hit on Google summarises things quite well:
ranprieur.com...
So the claim for abiotic oil is based upon deep-well sources around the Caspian basin, but as stated, although they released a paper on the non-biotic basis for the oil, they give no reason as to how or why.
It also states that wells are not replenished, and that this is not an infinite supply.
I would love to know how deep these wells are! Obviously, the deeper you drill, the more exspensive it gets. It must be shallow enough to make it more worth while than hitting shallower organic deposits.
They are pretty vague about how they found the site too. Anyone have any more info or sources about the seismics involved? Is this the only abiotic well in operation, or are they hitting multiple, tested deposits?


reply posted on 22-5-2008 @ 09:58 PM by cruzion
Also, just read this today:
www.reuters.com...
Do you think it possible that organic life living and dying within the mantle could possibly be contributing to organic deposits?


reply posted on 22-5-2008 @ 11:23 PM by makeitso
Hi H.P.

Originally posted by hschlang
World Oil Reserves are "Infinite"? Petroleum Resource is Always Replenished and Continuous


Linky thingy no worky for me.

Let me know if you have any info on this.


Allow me to quote myself.

Originally posted by makeitso
Here is the PNAS information. Dated 2002.
PNAS The genesis of hydrocarbons and the origin of petroleum

Conclusions from the PNAS: The pressure of 30 kbar, at which the theoretical analyses of section 4 predicts that the Hydrocarbon system must evolve ethane and heavier hydrocarbon compounds, corresponds to a depth of more than 100 km. The results of the theoretical analysis shown in Fig. 2 clearly establish that the evolution of the molecular components of natural petroleum occur at depth at least as great as those of the mantle of the Earth, as shown graphically in Fig. 4, in which are represented the thermal and pressure lapse rates in the depths of the Earth.

Here is the followup testing (Again) Dated 9-2004
Physicsweb - Petroleum under pressure


Scientists in the US have witnessed the production of methane under the conditions that exist in the Earth's upper mantle for the first time. The experiments demonstrate that hydrocarbons could be formed inside the Earth via simple inorganic reactions -- and not just from the decomposition of living organisms as conventionally assumed -- and might therefore be more plentiful than previously thought.

And the PNAS for it:
Generation of methane in the Earth's mantle: In situ high pressure?temperature measurements of carbonate reduction


Conclusions: The study demonstrates the existence of abiogenic pathways for the formation of hydrocarbons in the Earth's interior and suggests that the hydrocarbon budget of the bulk Earth may be larger than conventionally assumed. The wide pressure?temperature?composition stability field of methane documented here has broad implications for the hydrocarbon budget of the planet and indicates that methane may be a more prevalent carbon-bearing phase in the mantle than previously thought, with implications for the deep hot biosphere (25). In particular, isotopic evidence indicating the prevalence of biogenic hydrocarbons pertains to economically exploited hydrocarbon gas reservoirs, largely in sedimentary basins (2); these observations and analyses do not rule out the potential for large abiogenic reservoirs in the mantle. Moreover, the assumption that CO2 is the sole carrier of mantle-derived noble gasses (26, 27) should be reevaluated. Finally, the potential may exist for the high-pressure formation of heavier hydrocarbons by using mantle-generated methane as a precursor.

From the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Dated 1999
Abiogenic methane formation and isotopic fractionation under hydrothermal conditions

These results, combined with the increasing recognition of nickel-iron alloy occurrence in oceanic crusts, suggest that abiogenic methane may be more widespread than previously thought.


Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Nagoya University, Japan. Dated 1994.
Mantle hydrocarbons: abiotic or biotic?

It appears that hydrocarbons may survive high pressures and temperatures in the mantle, but they are decomposed into lighter hydrocarbon gases such as CH4 at lower pressures when magmas intrude into the crust; consequently, peridotite cumulates do not contain heavier hydrocarbons but possess hydrocarbon gases up to C4H10.

[edit on 29-10-2004 by makeitso]



reply posted on 23-5-2008 @ 04:22 AM by cruzion
reply to post by makeitso



Nice collecting of pertinent info!
Thank you very much.
It'll take me a while to get through it.


reply posted on 10-12-2009 @ 08:16 PM by mirageofdeceit
reply to post by TheRedneck



Wow. Kudos to ATS once again.

That makes sense. The science of oil taught in high school doesn't say this - it says that it is the result of dead sea life and woods from the past that sank, got compressed and made oil. In light of what I just read, that doesn't make sense!

It would make sense that oil is made the same way as diamond for example - all it requires is the right conditions and it will happen.

S+F!


reply posted on 19-1-2010 @ 10:44 AM by WatchRider
Originally posted by hschlang
Hi, just joined this forum.Thought you might like to know about the abiotic theory of oil that's been around for over 40 years but ignored by the West. It's a "plenty" theory, which is opposite to the fossil fuel hypothesis - touted as being incorrect and outdated.

I've recently written an article that refers to it on another site:
World Oil Reserves are "Infinite"? Petroleum Resource is Always Replenished and Continuous

There's a mp3 audio from a referred site (GasResources.net) that gives you a quick appreciation what the theory is about.
Link to National Public Radio interview:

Let me know if you have any info on this.

Cheers



[edit on 22-5-2008 by hschlang]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by hschlang]

[edit on 22-5-2008 by hschlang]


I work in the oil and gas and the whole peak oil theory is laughed off the platform by most of the guys.
I've worked offshore for several years now and can tell you the flow of hydrocarbons is non-stop and it comes up from the earth at a very warm temperature.
We've suspended production for months at a time for various reasons and a mini-recovery takes place more often than not.

I worked on Forties Alpha platforms in the North Sea a while back.
Before I was there they were sold off by one of the big oil companies (I forget which) they reckoned the oil field was practically dried out.
Well another oil company (a mature field developer) came in and after re-starting production lo and behold the reservoir had mysteriously filled up again.
So it's an open secret offshore about this recovery theory which goes hand in hand with the abiotic oil origin.
The 'science' says it must be from a deeper, conventional, oil field we can't reach. But then they would say that
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