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Just a couple questions to the Freemasons concerning higher degrees.

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posted on May, 21 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Hello all!

I'd first like to say I mean not to disrespect or accuse anyone, I'm simply asking because I AM truly interested in Masonry in the future, these are the only couple questions hanging up my decision:

I first have a question for anyone in the the thread who has received 33° status:

When you receive the honorary degree, do they ask you your religion? If 'yes', why do you suppose this is? Did they say that you will go on, or no?

My second question: What are current Freemasons' opinion of the following quotes from Albert Pike, in Morals & Dogma?




"To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees – The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."

"If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay (The God of the Christians) whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy, and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?"

" Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two Gods : darkness being necessary to light to serve as its foil as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive."


I'm sure you've answered these question many times, I apologize in advance.

Sincerely,
Metatron's cube




posted on May, 21 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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Well, considering Pike never wrote that in Morals and Dogma, I think it's a load of crap.

M&D is freely available lots of place on the net. Project Gutenberg for one, but take your pick. Do a search for Lucifer and see if any of that context comes up.

We'll wait.



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by metatronscube
My second question: What are current Freemasons' opinion of the following quotes from Albert Pike, in Morals & Dogma?

*CRAP DELETED*


Please provide the page in Morals & Dogma "that" appears in.

Or link to the quote from this (or any other) free online version:

www.sacred-texts.com...

Thanks.

p.s. There are no "higher degrees."



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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Alright, I searched google for Morals and Dogma:

I then searched for Lucifer in in the book, I found results on page 73, 102, 321, 324.

I didn't find the passage mentioned of course, but numerous interesting references.

Also here:

books.google.com... 4A#PPA271,M1



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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I apologize for the bogus reference. Once again, I mean absolute respect.



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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Most anti-Masonry sites still publish that passage, many of them with the full knowledge that it doesn't actually appear in the book.

One doesn't EXPECT to be lied to, but I guess some people will sink to such depths when furthering their "cause".



posted on May, 21 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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That quote originated from Taxils Hoax during the late 1800's.

It is a famous anti-masonic quote that surprisingly is completely fictional. It is also a representation of how truely attempting to find the source can prove insightful.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:02 AM
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Well, that's great to know!


So my other question then is; If there is no higher degree than 33 in Freemasonry, is there another group 'beyond' Freemasonry? One that having a 33rd degree would be a pre-requisite?

I appreciate all the feedback, BTW!



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by metatronscube
 


You mean there's no higher degree than the Third Degree, or Master Mason... Right?



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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Master Mason is the "highest" degree, dude.

Since joining Masonry, I have always been taught that Masons who hold degrees in appendant bodies (like the Scottish Rite, who have 33 degrees) have no organisational authority over me as a Master Mason. Neither have any of those guys ever tried to exercise any kind of authority.

This is something that many outsiders don’t understand (or refuse to accept): Just because someone has collected degrees which are "numerically higher", it doesn’t mean they are organisationally more senior.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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Hmm, alright then. I saw a mason's ring today at work that had a '32' on a red triangle and I also noticed Rockpuck's title said 32nd degree. I understand that you say in your lodges that they hold no hierarchy over you....I wonder if they feel the same way though. I had heard once ( possibly said out of ignorance ) that there is a special sect of Freemasonry that gives the 33rd degree only to a chosen few in Washington, D.C. According to that though, you had to be specially invited.

I can understand all the confusion and conspiracies that crop up around Freemasonry with all the unrecognized appendage organizations out there!
No wonder I was confused! I think that's where all the ignorance stems from.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by metatronscube
 


32nd, 33rd... Heck even 96th... It doesn't matter... The "highest" degree anyone will attain in Freemasonry is the Sublime Degree of Master Mason... The Third Degree... Everything else is just window dressing so to speak.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by metatronscube
 


Once you're a 3° Master Mason you're an equal to all other Masons. Now, within your own lodge, you could eventually become the Worshipful Master of that lodge for a year... annually elected, and one year terms, and you have to have served at least one (often two) years in a Warden's seat before becoming eligible to be elected WM of that lodge.

So those are things you can do in a regular "Blue Lodge".

If you get involved at the state level, you could eventually be elected or appointed to a position in the Grand Lodge of that state. The titles more or less reflect that of the individual lodges, where the Worshipful Master of the Grand Lodge is the Grand Master. Again, elected position, one year term.

Any 3° Master Mason can join other groups for further education, or fun & comradary. The Shrine, The York Rite, The Scottish Rite, The Grotto, and a few others. York Rite has, I think, 12 degrees. Scottish Rite has 32 normal degrees an an honorary 33rd awarded to people who've been really active in Masonry. (There's supposed to be a minimum of 8 years between getting the 32° and 33°, though I've seen evidence that some people in the past have gotten it in 4 years. And of course, some might never get it. Only a certain number are awarded every other year, IIRC.)



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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Great! I believe that sums up my inquiry! I have no quarrel with you gents, you're very helpful and you answered all my questions!



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by metatronscube
 


Oh, and I suppose I should follow up my own post by adding that once having served a year as elected Worshipful Master of a lodge, or Grand Master of a Grand Lodge, one is given the honorary title of Past Master or Past Grand Master, respectively. PMs don't have any authority in the running of the lodge, but if they remain active, may serve as councilors to the sitting WM (if he needs help or advice in governing the lodge), or step in to cover the duties of an officer who is absent.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by metatronscube
 


For more information on the structure of Freemasonry, see this thread, and follow the link to the flow chart.

It explains how the structure of Freemasonry works, and also explains why 33° of the Scottish rite is no higher than a 3° master mason.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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I noticed that the first few of your questions are the result of either you reading Jim Shaw's hoax or someone else reading it tell it to you like it was truth:

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

I am not a mason at all, but given what I know about Jim Shaw and reading his "account" I can guarantee it is false since a mason's religion is never an object of discussion at any masonic degree.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 08:45 AM
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It is important to understand that the "highest degree" depends upon which Masonic Rite you're talking about.

The Constitution of the United Grand Lodge of England says that: "Pure Antient Masonry consists of three degrees only, viz., Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason, which includes the Supreme Order of the Holy Royal Arch".

That's a little bit ambiguous because it seems to state that the Third Degree is the "highest", but then calls the Royal Arch "supreme". Regardless, this is the general view in the York Rite of Masonry (i.e., that the Third Degree is the highest, but somehow the Royal Arch is even higher; if that doesn't make sense to you, don't feel bad, because it doesn't make sense to me either).

In the Scottish Rite of Masonry, the highest degree is the 33rd. However, in English speaking countries, the Scottish Rite recognizes the first three degrees of the York Rite. Therefore, again in English speaking countries, the Scottish Rite begins its own system with the 4th degree.

In the Swedish Rite the highest degree is the 10th degree. Countries who work in the Swedish Rite begin at the first degree, with the Swedish Rite's version of Apprentice.



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by metatronscube
Hmm, alright then. I saw a mason's ring today at work that had a '32' on a red triangle and I also noticed Rockpuck's title said 32nd degree. [snippity]


Your enquiries have already been addressed but maybe I can give you a slightly different way of looking at the relationship of the degrees. Which is larger? 3 feet or 33 inches? On the straight numerical basis, one would assume the latter. However, the fact is that it's a matter of measure. Similar concept in Masonry.

HTH
Fitz



posted on May, 22 2008 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by metatronscube
 


Oh, and I suppose I should follow up my own post by adding that once having served a year as elected Worshipful Master of a lodge, or Grand Master of a Grand Lodge, one is given the honorary title of Past Master or Past Grand Master, respectively. PMs don't have any authority in the running of the lodge, but if they remain active, may serve as councilors to the sitting WM (if he needs help or advice in governing the lodge), or step in to cover the duties of an officer who is absent.


Also, Past Masters are "members" of the state Grand Lodge and have a vote there. Normally a given Lodge gets three votes at Grand Lodge (one for each primary officer). Past Masters, however, also have individual votes at Grand Lodge Communications.

There's also a special degree ceremony, but of course I haven't seen it. I've heard it's a hoot.



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