Canada to become 51st state in 2010

Just have to say, as a Canadian living real close to the U.S., that as much as I like the Americans I've gotten to know over the years,
1. I would never want us to be part of their country.
2. It irks me every time I see an American war plane fly over Canadian air space - even tho I know its been agreed to in some treaty or other - it still bugs me.
3. The sight of U.S. troops on this side of the border would bring the blood to a boil. I can't see any reason where or when they would ever be needed. Its just more of that delusional paranoid thinking that's taken over the U.S. in recent years.
4. Fact is, their government is unreliable, and untrustworthy. Looking at everything they've done recently, finding a ruse to occupy Canada would not be something beyond them.
5. Once they made that decision, it would be "fait accomplis". We can't even defend our rights in the Arctic.
Would we do anything? I think our government would capitulate. The people would be mad - at least some would, but nothing more.
Don't expect the rest of our allies, or NATO or UN to do a damn thing -- they did nothing to stop Iraq. They would wave a finger and say shame, but then continue to suck up to the U.S. as ever before.
Maybe China would help? -- OH, no, they are just after $$$$$ right now like the rest of them.
I see the current American administration like a wounded animal caught in a corner, capable of more insanity now than at any other time.
My only hope is that I do see many Americans starting to come out of the shell-shock following 9-11, and starting to question what is going on.
I just can't wait for the election to take place and, with a regime change in America, hopefully return to saner days.

reply to post by stumason

Hey, just wondering if anyone else for that matter, know anything on the first war of independence. I was taught about this in school (England) and never really questioned it, but a few years ago, I found a number of references which claimed that although America 'won' the first war of independence, reparations were to be paid to England, or 'Britain' for the cost of the war, not to mention loans, that had been used to fund AMERICA's side of the war.

“The Unknown American Revolution: The Unruly Birth of Democracy and The Struggle to Create America” by Gary B. Nash, published by the Penguin Group, NYC 10014, 2005.

The book above gives a history of the events leading to the 1775-1783 Revolutionary War. It pays particular attention to the very significant contributions made by ordinary men, women, slaves of both genders and Native Americans.

For a quick overview of the Treaty of Paris of 1783 ending the War, see en.wikipedia.org...(1783)

For the actual treaty, see Yale University’s Avalon Project at
www.yale.edu...

It has been some time since I last read the Treaty, but I do not recall any mention of reparations payable by the United States to Great Britain or any of its citizens. The only mention of reparations is referred to in the book mentioned above, when GB offered to pay reparations to slave owners for slaves that took up their offer for emancipation should they leave their masters and join the British Army. Upwards of 10,000 slaves did just that. But none of the slave owners would accept the amounts offered.

GB paid close attention to keeping their promise to the FREED slaves by first sending them to Nova Scotia where they found the soil and climate unfavorable. The Brits then moved them to a new state, Sierra Leone, on Africa's west coast.

The newly free 13 colonies were indeed in very bad financial shape. Americans not only resented paying taxes to King George, they resented with equal vigor paying taxes to any of the 13 new independent states. The Continental Army had barely weathered several mutinies in the last year of the war - 1781 - because of the persistent failure of the Continental Congress to pay them, to feed them or to furnish the promised uniforms. Wives of soldiers were put to begging from door to door for food.

It is highly doubtful if the Continental Army would have survived the winter of 1781-82. But alas, Lord Cornwallis surrendered before the onset of winter. On 19 October 1781, the papers were signed by Cornwallis and Thomas Symonds (the most senior British naval officer present), and the pair officially surrendered. About 7,000 British troops became prisoners of the American forces. Note: About ½ of the forces on the American side were French and Canadian units. End of note.

From what I understand, America has been mason controlled since the birth of America, just over 2 centuries ago. If this is true, I really don't see how America WON, apart from the fact that they said they won and England said nothing. It also raises questions as to England’s intent, if England had offered this treaty and America agreed, it sounds like either they were over a barrel, or 'independence' was just a staged coup d’état as it was seen as an inevitability. America was far to big for England to police, it would only grow in its size, scope and self sustainability, the more I think the more it just seems to be an intelligent move and one that could've well been discussed back then. Sorry if this is slightly off topic . .

You know Mr S/M, the one thing I regret most as I get closer to the Biblical three score and 10 years, is that I never “joined” the Masons despite having 3 invitations. I have never been a “joiner” but that was one mistake I do regret. I know enough about the Masons (and Shriners) to know there is NO conspiracy to control America or the world. Like a lot of benevolent organizations, they have made and are making a valuable contribution to the well-being of America.

Why did puny America win the War with the superpower of its day? I offer my opinion. In large part it was because the British 1) thought the colonies would return on their own and 2) there were serious internal divisions in GB that prevented either the Whigs or the Tories from gaining a majority position that the populace would support. Despite the success of the Glorious Revolution (1688) Parliament was still struggling between the Houses of Lords and Commons. Commons had not yet achieved its dominance. For Americans it was an opportune time.

I agree that at least from one perspective, the Revolution was just a coup d’état, replacing the titled nobility of Europe with a slave owning landed gentry. The group we call our Founding Fathers. Analogous to the Catholic’s “Church Fathers.” There were many who wanted a REAL revolution and they got a little bit. For example New Jersey gave women the full right to vote in 1778 but it was withdrawn in 1825. And etc.

1775 America was not nearly as large as India which England did well enough in running. Size was not an issue then, IMO. GB tried to limit the growth of the colonies with a BLUE LINE drawn on maps which was to be the limit for white - English - settlements. This preserved much of the land WEST of the Appalachians for Native Americans. Unfortunately for the NAs, the whites ignored the rule. I believe it was the ambition of the settlers here that drove them to revolt. I think the Brits did not realize how valuable this land would become. Nor, I'm sure, did any in the 13 American colonies. But See King James Bible, “Where there is no vision, the people perish . . ” Proverbs 29:18.

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]

I was under the impression the united States of America was a corporation of England and not even a Country.
Is there any truth in this?


isn't that why it is called The united states? United by the Crown ?
As in Canada being owned by England also As in Crown Land, the good ole English looking queen on our money etc....

beauty eehh. pass me another sausage and beer.... i got dibs on the jelly, hoser

reply to post by seridium

I was under the impression the united States of America was a corporation of England and not even a Country. Is there any truth in this? isn't that why it is called The united states? United by the Crown ? As in Canada being owned by England also As in Crown Land, the good ole English looking queen on our money etc...

Yes. Each colony in America was first a chartered private venture. The British government was not as pervasive then as now. As in all governments. The reigning monarch was usually "cut in" for a percent of the profits by letting him or her buy shares. The colonies operated under charters granted by Parliament.

When a private colony failed, they were usually converted into a Crown colony. A discontented Benjamin Franklin went to England to plead with King George III to revoke the William Penn charter of 1682 to found Pennsylvania, and convert it into a royal Crown colony. Franklin alleged Penn was creating a private feudal system.

The name "United States of America" was first used officially - to my best knowledge - in the 1775 Articles of Confederation, Article 1.

[edit on 05/05/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by not so crazy cannuck

Canada to become 51st state in 2010

maybe if we buy it from the queen of England first.

canada is not british, but the queen owns the land and its inhabitants *cough* prime minister *cough* ..prime minister to what?...


royal canadian mounted police...its not just a name ya know!

maybe we should just hire the french to take out the majesty...then canada will be ours!...all mine!!...ours, i meant ours

jeeze, I just read some of the canadian replys...so vicious...

"bring it"??

seriously?...maybe i didnt catch the "J/K" or sattire?

is this the normal sentiment towards Americans in Canada?

surely, canada (which supported the war on terror) and the world has an opinion about America and the war in Iraq. Illegal. Agreed.

America would certainly sustain damage, but do canadians actually believe their military could last against american intel and military superiority? ...there is a reason America won the cold war...intelligence

fortunately, this situation will never come to be (excluding some pact such as the NAU) but take it easy northern brothers...Im pretty sure we are on the same side

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


Back in the late 1970s a friend and I decided to drive to the END of the paved roads for a week off from the world. I picked the place. The Pas. A town in Manitoba, Canada, located in the Norman Region, some 630 km (390 miles) northwest of the provincial capital, Winnipeg. It is also near the border of Saskatchewan. It is sometimes called Paskoyac by locals; in fact, that was the official name of the town until it was incorporated in 1912 when its name was changed . . population in 2006, 5,589.

The Pas contains one of the two main campuses of the University College of the North. Boasting one of the three true blue lakes in existence, outdoor adventure abounds set to the raw natural beauty that attracts visitors from around the world. www.thepasarea.com...

I located a semi-equipped cabin on the shores of one of those lakes. Price? $15 a day for 5 days. This was the late 1970s. Probably $100 a day in 2008. Semi-equipped meant doors and screens on the windows. Yes, they offered electricity but no means of communicating with the outside world. Which is what we wanted. But we decided not to go in part due to the warning there was a narrow window in the late spring before the mosquitoes hatch. We were warned that out-of-towners would not be happy when the mosquitoes arrived.

reply to post by donwhite


Sounds beautiful. Ive pondered about moving to Vancouver myself. Heard nothing but good about that well cultured city. Canada seems like one of the worlds nicest overall places to live if you ask me.

...

Im sorry, was there a point? Maybe it went flying over my head. Please excuse my dunce-"ness?"...

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


My bring it was half satire, half serious. I doubt this would happen, but Americanization is a big fear over hear, with the talk of the Amero and what not. I agree with the wounded animal in a corner, and who knows how bad things will get in the states. I mean it is hard to climb out of a recession when you know longer have any basic industry because you outsourced it all. A resource rich country with the worlds longest undefended border might look tasty, in which case they are going to find themselves with some feisty Canadian boys on their hands.

Originally posted by Tenebrous
reply to post by abelievingskeptic

 

My bring it was half satire, half serious. I doubt this would happen, but Americanization is a big fear over hear, with the talk of the Amero and what not. I agree with the wounded animal in a corner, and who knows how bad things will get in the states. I mean it is hard to climb out of a recession when you know longer have any basic industry because you outsourced it all. A resource rich country with the worlds longest undefended border might look tasty, in which case they are going to find themselves with some feisty Canadian boys on their hands.

glad to hear the comment was at least "half satire". Its funny when you say "Americanization" is a big fear. A lot of people would contend that there is no real culture that exists in America. That is something I can attest to.. Unless you consider materialism culture, there is a lack there-of.

And I agree, with the damn neo cons in charge, who knows what they have up there sleeve. The only reason it would never happen is (and in this case I suppose it is a good thing) because of the Iraq war. How did Bush put it? "fool me once shame on you. fool me twice....shame on you?" lol...

In other words there wouldn't be any ground force to fight in something so inane as some kind of war for resources with Canada. Americans would never go for it.

As far as no industry. Well I think that is somewhat of a misconception. There is plenty of industry. Of course, it has declined much to what it used to be. But, if America can come out from behind the shade these neo-cons have so deliberately placed us I believe the economy will bounce back just fine...hopefully.

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
jeeze, I just read some of the canadian replys...so vicious...

"bring it"??

seriously?...maybe i didnt catch the "J/K" or sattire?

is this the normal sentiment towards Americans in Canada?

surely, canada (which supported the war on terror) and the world has an opinion about America and the war in Iraq. Illegal. Agreed.

America would certainly sustain damage, but do canadians actually believe their military could last against american intel and military superiority? ...there is a reason America won the cold war...intelligence

fortunately, this situation will never come to be (excluding some pact such as the NAU) but take it easy northern brothers...Im pretty sure we are on the same side

No kidding, I'm very surprised at the Canadians posting here. It's like they actually believe that you guys are going to storm in on us tomorrow morning or something. I'm one of them, and believe me most Canadians don't really hate Americans. Just look at it if the roles were reversed, and you read a thread about Russia planning to invade the USA. You wouldn't like it, and you'd likely vow to fight to the death to protect your own, right? Canadians are fiercely proud of their country, and one would have to search pretty far to find a people as patriotic as we are.

Your hypothetical invasion would not just be our two countries. According to NATO, an attack on one country is an attack on every country, so this invasion would likely result in many if not all NATO nations coming to Canada's defense (minus the U S of A of course). It would definately be ugly.

And you better watch it, because we might just invade YOU! Heck, we could send our entire armed forces down and we MIGHT be able to take Idaho Have a good one my 'merican cousin

reply to post by bronco73

No kidding, believe me most Canadians don't really hate Americans. Just look at it if the roles were reversed, and you read a thread about Russia planning to invade the USA. You wouldn't like it, and you'd likely vow to fight to the death to protect your own, right? Canadians are fiercely proud of their country, and one would have to search pretty far to find a people as patriotic as we are.

I did not start this thread. My “contribution” is to remind everyone that the TWO largest untapped sources of fresh water in North America are the Great Bear Lake (536 cu mi) and Great Slave Lake (501 cu mi), both of which happen to be in Canadian territory. The NWT. Albeit extremely remote and presently unused except by the First Nations. Even states like Florida are about to run out of water! Aside: Metro Atlanta has but 199 days supply of water in its reservoirs, down from the normal 2 years supply. This is the 3rd year of a 100 year drought. Recalling the utter mess made in New Orleans - "hey Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job" - just how do you evacuate 3 million people when they could not evacuate 500,000 there? AND to where?

What's today's tv fare? Today’s tv fare includes “Bataan” followed by “Fixed Bayonets.” The first about our loss of the Philippines in 1942. The second about a heroic unit in Korea in 1951. Then follows “Hamburger Hill” (Korea) and “The Great Raid” which ought to be mandatory for all government planners in or out of uniform. It recounts the exquisitely executed plan to liberate civilians from a Japanese POW camp in the Philippines. 1944. For more on the value of planning, see also “Pegasus Bridge” by Steven Ambrose portraying the inestimable contribution of Major Howard and the Brits on D-Day. Hey, this is Memorial Day - today - and it’s a WAR thing.

The remaining tv fare is divided about evenly between CRIME and DUMB TALK and even less challenging CONTEST shows. Wow! Such a great tool for learning NEVER used to educate the public. Instead, under (near) total private control, it is employed relentlessly in DUMBING DOWN America. The American equivalent to Rome's Coliseum. "Give them circus!" This is why I have always hated Rupert Murdoch!

[edit on 5/26/2008 by donwhite]

Originally posted by abelievingskeptic
America would certainly sustain damage, but do canadians actually believe their military could last against american intel and military superiority?

Well, our military is better equipped than the Taliban and look what's happening over there. If I remember correctly, the same comments were made seven years ago when the US first went into Afghanistan. Do Americans really think that an invasion of Canada would be any different? I like America, and what it stands for, or used to stand for. But sometimes I think Americans are too smug about their military superiority. We have some rugged terrain to hide in as well, you know.
Besides, like you said, it's never going to happen. We are brothers.

reply to post by TheComte

Well, our military is better equipped than the Taliban . . I like America. But sometimes I think Americans are too smug about their military superiority.

I agree 100% on smugness. Military superiority is not only our FIRST option, it is our ONLY option. We could not grasp how to win the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese. We tried hard. We killed 800,000 of them by our count, 3,000,000 by their count. We have done no better in Iraq. The Brits have ended their actions in Iraq. Apparently PM Brown agreed to leave the troops there until after November 4. Hey, the Brits are still our best friends even if we are not theirs.

NATO has already indicated they are through in Afghan. And the Taliban is much better prepared for a re-run of our “shock and awe” strategy this time. Cleaning up our mess is not appealing to Euro-types. Our DESIGNATED president Hamid Karzai in Afghan is on the slide outward. Italy announced today it is beginning to pull its troops our of Afghan. That announcement made purposely on a holiday to minimize the adverse impact on Bush43's already severely tarnished reputation. Not to mention his L E G A C Y.

Our man in Pakistan also is called president - Pervez Musharraf despite him being a general. We like the label or title “president” for our hand picked autocratic lackeys.

Our own designated president (2000) also claims not only that he talks with GOD, but worse, that GOD talks back to him!

For many interesting statistics on US Armed Forces, go to en.wikipedia.org...

All that blitz and glitz and not one WORTHY enemy!

[edit on 5/26/2008 by donwhite]

I'm one of them, and believe me most Canadians don't really hate Americans. Just look at it if the roles were reversed, and you read a thread about Russia planning to invade the USA. You wouldn't like it, and you'd likely vow to fight to the death to protect your own, right?

Oh ya, I never thought Canadians overall had a negative outlook on America in general. Shoot, at times, I am quite envious of you guys!

I didn't see where the OP talked about invading Canada. If someone started a thread about Russia invading America, honestly, I would laugh. Same thing if someone started a thread about Russia invading Canada or any other North America, Central American, or probably even South American country. I believe their troop ships would be sunk 10 miles off their coast.

Why? You may ask. It is not because of our superior military. And I mean superior military simply by the most technologically advanced. It is because of our Intel...ie., CIA, NSA, DIA and all the rest. We simply spend way more $$ than any other nation in the defense dept. If what I have read is true, then another country can not fart without us knowing. They probably could tell you what they had for dinner too!

So it is not like I am just spouting off about our "superiority." Of course, I would expect the boys of any nation (especially Canadians) to be ferocious in the event of any opposing suppressor, as it should be. Unfortunately, it seems the neo-cons and their NAC has hijacked the American/ North Amrican way and has turned the worlds view of America flat on its face. It is quite sad, honestly.

This is why, when the war drums start pounding and the b.s. propoganda starts up over here in the media, it really gets to me. They obviously take the general pop as sheepish fools (which it seems they are correct, unfortunately). Our intel/ covert ops should be able to take care of any hostile "nuclear" program out there. Unfortunately, they are trying to justify, once again, a regime change or bombing raid on a seemingly innocent country.

And you better watch it, because we might just invade YOU! Heck, we could send our entire armed forces down and we MIGHT be able to take Idaho

Have a good one my 'merican cousin

..you can have Idaho! who needs it anywho, eh?

..you too bro.

reply to post by TheComte


Well there is a huge difference between Canada and Afhganistan. First, (just to clarify..so you understand I am not just one of these crazy neo cons sympathizers) it is ridiculous that American boots are even on that soil. Second, I believe Afhganistan never even really felt the real force of our military. That whole sham of a "war on terror" is a facade for the middle America to fall in line behind these nutcases that are behind the wheel of the profiteering war machine that is the Neo Con admin in power today. There were no major targets, or real military force to compete with. Of course a conventioanl military is going to struggle in a very stupid battle of "wills" with the people that have lived in their land for the last 3,000 years. I believe it was well planned to be drawn out as it has been. In other words. There is no real "war."

If (and thankfully I do not believe it will happen) a real war, like WWII was a real war, then America would prevail quite "easily" in any circumstance.

Im not going go into how I think America would "win" in a war with Canada. The only thing I will say is read my post above. It is not about our troops/ military is "stronger" or "better". It is simply about spending and Intel. There just is no comparison between America and any other nation.

reply to post by donwhite

the TWO largest untapped sources of fresh water in North America are the Great Bear Lake (536 cu mi) and Great Slave Lake (501 cu mi), both of which happen to be in Canadian territory.

I have mentioned the near-plight facing the Atlanta metro area. The latest report of the Corps of Engineers which operates Lake Lanier, was that it held 199 billion gallons of drinking water. Good. The Atlanta area withdraws one billion gallons a day. Bad. You don’t have to be a college grad to see that equals 199 days or about 6 months supply. The same report said rainfall for the year 2008 was replenishing the reservoir at 23 million gallons a day. At that rate, with no drawdown, it would take 18 years to refill the reservoir.

So how much water is 500 cubic miles? Well, I use 5000 feet for a mile. That means 5 x 10 to the 3rd, times 5 X 10 to the 3rd, times 5 X 10 to the 3rd, equals 125 X 10 to the 9th . That’s cubic feet per cubic mile. 7.5 gallons of water are found in a cubic foot.

This make the total gallons of water in either the Great Bear Lake or the Great Slave Lake equal to 937 X 10 to the 9th. Or, expressed in ordinary numbers, 937, 000,000,000 gallons. About 3 years worth for Atlanta. Phoenix is half the population of Atlanta so maybe that would be 6 years worth of water? The wise thing to do would be to tap into both the lakes, but drawn down no more than the annual precipitation puts back into the lakes. That might be a small enough amount considering the pipeline costs to be uneconomic.

Based on the numbers I say Canucks, go back to sleep.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


In the US, the war of 1812 is taught as a win. The Canada attack was a side note as is commonly known the US of A had little to know navy at the time. In fact we had what equated to as 6 combat ships, and many small shore patrol boats. That wonderful 6 ship navy gave one hell of a black eye to what was thought to be the greatest sea power of the time.