5 reasons I will never vote for Obama.....

reply to post by JessicaS

The way I feel about it, I'd rather have four more years of the same, than a inexperienced radical indecisive baby killer as president

Really?

So let's see here...abortion....you obviously don't agree with it, but are his views on it really more important that this entire nation?

And experience...I don't really want to get into this because I have so many other times, but let's just say...it's overrated.

Now, you would rather have 4 more years of this nation collapsing, taking away our rights, people dying, a failing economy, etc. etc. etc. than someone who is pro-choice?

You, sister, have got your priorities backwards.

I'm going to recommend you see the movie Cider House Rules, as this movie does an excellent job of explaining why abortion needs to be legal. Morality is a different subject.

Bigbert and BH,

First off, I want to say, I never said I was against abortion (dilatation and suction curettage procedure), I'm against partial birth abortion (dilatation and extraction procedure). Do you guys understand what that procedure is? It's where labor is induced, and the baby's head is partially delivered, jabbed in the back of the head with some scissors and the brains are sucked out. Then the rest of the body is pulled out and discarded. This procedure is done after 20 weeks gestation and can be done up until the baby is completely delivered. So, if you had a child at 40 week gestation (which is completed term pregnancy) and you suddenly decide you don't want it anymore you can elect to have this procedure done. WTH!!!! I'm sorry, but i'm of the mindset that you have more than enough time in the first 1/2 of the pregnancy to terminate... Why resort to this?

The Babies Born Alive Act to me doesn't change the woman's right to have an abortion, even the barbaric partial birth abortion, just give a child who had been brought into this world as alive the chance to live with what they have left. IF this type of abortion is botched it doesn't mean the mother is still pregnant, it's a case that the child was delivered alive. She can elect not to take care of it, and it could be a ward of the state, for as long as they can keep it alive. That is what the act was about.

Now that being said, lets say I'm pregnant with a 24 week gestation and I want to keep the baby.... (which btw, I'm Not Pregnant, i'm using this as an example) I go into premature labor, and despite all the medical attention I receive.... I end up delivering at 25 weeks. The medical staff is bound by law to do everything they can to keep that baby alive. If they don't, it's considered negligence and I could sue the doctors and the hospital for the death of my baby. It's called a baby at this point and not a fetus why? because it made it outside of my body and is living on it's own.

If i were the same amount of time pregnant, and shot in the stomach which resorted to the death of my fetus, they can charge the shooter with murder. (see query.nytimes.com...)
What makes this different than a partial birth abortion? What is the difference in both scenarios? Well the fetus/baby was wanted in both cases.

Anyone who is willing to let a born child just sit and slowly die on a shelf is just sick. Seriously, sick.

I have seen Cider House Rules, and they weren't addressing partial birth abortions, please think that over. They were dilatation and suction curettage abortions. If memory serves me, none of the abortions they talked about in that movie did they do after 20 weeks. If i'm wrong, let me know.

And for the record, if you read the article I posted, or the other posts on this thread, he didn't even VOTE for. That's right, he spoke so convincingly on this, but refused to vote for or against it! This is on the list of presents... which I will get for this thread later in this post.

Now on to the other things that bothered me....

His Race -- Now, what bugs me is how he presents himself. I've seen him several times act like he's some brother from the hood, when he's from a well off family in Hawaii, bothers me. It bugs me that he asked for so much not to be talked about. To quote Rush Limbaugh (ugh, not that I care for that man or anything, but he can hit nails on the head sometimes....)

We can't talk about his ears, it makes him nervous...

We can't talk about his mother...

We can't talk about his father...

We can't talk about his grandmother unless he does, brings her up as a "typical white person."

We can't talk about his wife...

We can't talk about his preacher...

We can't talk about his terrorist friends...

We can't talk about his voting record...

We can't talk about his religion...

We can't talk about appeasement...

We can't talk about color; we can't talk about lack of color...

We can't talk about race...

We can't talk about bombers and mobsters who are his friends...

We can't talk about schooling...

We can't talk about his name, "Hussein."

We can't talk about his lack of experience...

We can't talk about his income...

We can't talk about his flag pin...

We can't say anything negative about him at all. Why, cause of the reaction you guys have given. "Why does it bother you that he calls himself black?" cause he isn't.... He's of similar heritage of my cousins who are also mixed, and would be offended if you called them black or white. They prefer the term Mulatto (which i can't spell) or mixed (which i can spell). If anything they prefer the term American. Why can't that just be it?

Where is the money comming from -- Do you honestly think that taxes for the rich will get passed in a congress of rich men? Do you honestly think that those rich wouldn't hire lawyers and accountants to hide their wealth to keep it from being taxed? Come on, it's well known that those with money always get more. Why? Because they can afford to use there resources to avoid it. Call me cynical but I doubt funds from this silly war will be diverted so quickly. If anything they will keep the funds in the military claiming that if they pull it, the families of service men will suffer....

Oh wait, Obama promised the families more benefits and that there shouldn't be an veterans with out work and begging. Another promise.... Yeah... right.


The present vote -- all in all, he's voted present a total of 129 times (see www.boston.com...), and here are some of the issues in this article www.realclearpolitics.com...

Come on, for someone who claims he can bring change to this country, why would he stand this way on so many different topics.

It's cause of this, I don't want him in office. Call me a biggot if it makes you feel better, but why are you voting for him? Cause you think Hilary is not right for the job, or cause your sexist? It goes both ways my friends....


edit cause i used the wrong name.... ooops

[edit on 5/23/2008 by JessicaS]

We can't talk about his name, "Hussein."

We can't talk about his flag pin...


You say that sarcastically as if you think these points above are a big deal, are they? If they are to you, then that is scary.

I think it is a very big deal with regard to Obama's character and his associations. It is the tip of the Ice Berg.

Where there is anti-Americanism, there is Obama and his supporters.

yes, i could care less of what his middle name is or if he wears a flag pin. My middle name is Lynn and I don't wear a flag pin either. lol.



But, it's part of the list people throw fits over.....

Originally posted by JessicaS
We can't talk about his ears, it makes him nervous...

We can't talk about his mother...

What do you (and Rush) mean you can't talk about these things? You can talk about anything you want. These issues are talked about ALL THE TIME. No need to cry that you can't talk about him or say anything negative about him. I hear and read negative stuff about him every single day.

Just because people have a reaction to your words doesn't mean that you can't say anything about him. You mean you can't say anything negative about him without people arguing with you. Welcome to the world of discussion boards and politics.

"Why does it bother you that he calls himself black?" cause he isn't....

Yes, he is. His father was black and he has EVERY right to call himself black. Who DOES have the right to call themselves black? Only black Africans?

He's of similar heritage of my cousins who are also mixed, and would be offended if you called them black or white. They prefer the term Mulatto (which i can't spell) or mixed (which i can spell). If anything they prefer the term American. Why can't that just be it?

I don't care what your cousins call themselves any more than I care what Barack calls himself. It's THEIR choice.

The present vote -- all in all, he's voted present a total of 129 times

Out of roughly 4000 votes. That's hardly "spending more time voting present than picking a stance and standing with it. " Read the rest of your article that you linked and you'll see why people vote present sometimes.

It's cause of this, I don't want him in office.

Fine. Don't vote for him.

Call me a biggot if it makes you feel better,

Excuse me???

but why are you voting for him?

I didn't say I was voting for him.

Cause you think Hilary is not right for the job, or cause your sexist? It goes both ways my friends....

You like to sling those names around, don't you? Sexist. Racist. Bigot... That's real fun, isn't it? Wouldn't it be sexist for someone to ASSUME that I'm a sexist man because I won't vote for Hillary?


[edit on 23-5-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Scramjet76


I think a present vote could mean that he agrees with the meat of the bill but you disgaree with various pork and other details.

The bills they vote on in congress are junk. With one special interest piled upon another. Every politician should be booted out of office for ever voting for one of those bills.

Bottom line I believe that Obama stands the best chance at actually pushing through some significant change. Hillary and MCain represent the establishment that have been destroying america for several decades.

Edited for spelling, etc.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by disgustedbyhumanity]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Cause you think Hilary is not right for the job, or cause your sexist? It goes both ways my friends....

You like to sling those names around, don't you? Sexist. Racist. Bigot... That's real fun, isn't it? Wouldn't it be sexist for someone to ASSUME that I'm a sexist man because I won't vote for Hillary?


[edit on 23-5-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

It was on your West Virgina link... in the comments? I read through them. I've been called it all, by those who support obama... One friend I said to, "I will never vote for Obama?" and the first thing out of his mouth was "What? Are you racist?" I've read it here all over the place. I've been called by those here as racist. I've been called it all. I simply bring up sex, to show, anyone can call anyone anything for whatever reason. Doesn't make it true.

Edit: I have no intention to ever vote for Obama. Nothing will EVER change my mind on this. Sorry, I've made my decision on this.

[edit on 5/23/2008 by JessicaS]

I'm a person of color, yet I'm not an Obama voter either.

Why?

The whole "We Can Change" or "We Are Change" thing just isn't going to work. It's just more gutless promises from politicians...and...he's not Jesus either, like some dumb people think nowadays.

I do like him as an icon for the advancement of colored people, though.

reply to post by JessicaS


I'm sorry, but my first post still stands.

I'm not here to argue the morality of abortions or late term abortions, so please refer to my first post.

Same with your opinion of what color he acts like.

These are minimal things to a country falling to it's knees, as it is doing so under GWB, and McCain, with his voting record, is the same.

Read my last post again.

It won't matter who get in Bert, the country has long since been sold out for purposes of the New World Order, which Obama is all for.

Did you know that Obama's main foreign policy advisor is the Author of the "Grand Chess Board". It is a book that lays out the guidelines for a New World Order under the US.

In the book, he states China must be defeated in order for the US to gain NWO objectives.

Do you want war with China? You think it's bad now, wait until Obama gets in. Are you going to fight Obama's war against China? What if you are drafted (even if you're older)?

Obama is pure Marxist, but so is China. China isn't caving to US Corporate Facism like the US expected.

Obama, all he wants is power .. doesn't care what you want, it's all about him. China stands in the way of a US based NWO.

reply to post by JessicaS


Anyone who takes that pill popping hypocrite Rush Limbaugh seriously has lost some credibility in the political department with me.

Rush does not tell me who I can or cannot talk about. I have heard ALL of those things debated and talked about nearly daily for months now.

As long as there are ignorant fools who base a vote strictly on prolife, our country is in sad shape. How sad that these prolife zealots vote for men who are sending THOUSANDS of viable humans to certain death, maiming, and mental illness daily. Men who are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths, so much blood from viable himans on their hands. But lets vote em in come November, they are Pro Life!!

Wow, thats SOME logical argument there.

I know people who voted for Bush, ONLY because he was prolife. That was their reason, he protects the babies. Each one of those dead soldiers is someone's baby. There is not one thing Pro life about GW Bush. There is nothing pro life about McCain.

Oh, remind me once again, what exactly Bush has done to promote the prolife agenda? Anyone? Because my reproductive rights stand intact, just as they did before he became our president.

As far as Barack goes, I will vote for him if Hill doesnt get the nod. His speech the other day was awe inspiring. McCain is simply way too old to be a valid choice. I would like to know how much medicine he is on, especially heart meds or viagra. How can he make sane decisions about our country if he is, as lots of elderly people are, doped out of their minds on one pharmacuetical or the other?

So there will be no voting for Obama because of his "maybe" stance on partial birth abortions? And nobody wants a president that condones the killing of a human being .. AND keeping someone similar to Bush would be better than having Obama in the white house for this reason?

SO, are the thousands of Americans DYING and innocent civilians and children DYING... in this illegal war.. not considered murder by the hands of the current president?

reply to post by JessicaS


So? Why make a thread about it? Seems more like a Top five list for a blog or something... but anyway...

1. Hillary Clinton is 61, almost 62. John McCain is 72 almost 73. Ever watch the "Price is Right?" Its the closest without going over. Hillary might be 'young' enough to lead, but personally, I remember Reagan's 2nd term, and he was too old. McCain himself admitted in 2000 that he would be too old in 2008.

Almost exactly 55 years of age (about a month more, and assuming you consider the first taking of office for those who held several). The oldest was Reagan (70) and the youngest Teddy Roosevelt (43). Bill Clinton was 47

www.funtrivia.com...

2. "Tenancies?" Do you mean, Tendencies, or maybe even Tenacity? "Tenancies" has to do with occupying land, I doubt you mean that he is 'leasing' and occupying racism, right? I can understand the 'use' of Tendencies, but I disagree with your opinion whole heartedly. And I am in direct support of Barack Obama's Tenacity when it comes to issues of race. Maybe you were being creative, and trying to convey all three words together, into some sort of super word that acts as a magic talisman come election time. All definitions taken from: www.merriam-webster.com...

tenancy
Main Entry:
ten·an·cy
Pronunciation:
\ˈte-nən(t)-sē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural ten·an·cies
Date:
1590
1: a holding of an estate or a mode of holding an estate; specifically : the temporary possession or occupancy of something (as a house) that belongs to another
2: the period of a tenant's occupancy or possession

tendency
Main Entry:
ten·den·cy
Pronunciation:
\ˈten-dən(t)-sē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural ten·den·cies
Etymology:
Medieval Latin tendentia, from Latin tendent-, tendens, present participle of tendere
Date:
1628
1 a: direction or approach toward a place, object, effect, or limit b: a proneness to a particular kind of thought or action
2 a: the purposeful trend of something written or said : aim b: deliberate but indirect advocacy

tenacious
Main Entry:
te·na·cious
Pronunciation:
\tə-ˈnā-shəs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin tenac-, tenax tending to hold fast, from tenēre to hold
Date:
1607
1 a: not easily pulled apart : cohesive b: tending to adhere or cling especially to another substance
2 a: persistent in maintaining, adhering to, or seeking something valued or desired b: retentive

3.

His Promises -- He's promised everything to everyone, from financial relief and gas cost relief, to health care, to peace. How the heck can he deliver to everyone? Where is the money going to come from? Taxing the rich? How do you think that will go over?

It's the rich who run this country... they donate money to political campaigns. Even if Obama didn't take any support from any interest groups, or any of the rich, they have ways to keep their money in their hands. It's how they stay rich and how they got rich. So that cuts off that funding source.

Please provide links to examples of promises he has made regarding 'everything to everyone', I am not sure where to start with such a vague premise. Are you implying that the rich will kill him? Because your claim that his promises are based on money from 'the rich' is ridiculous. Maybe if we weren't spending 12 Billion Dollars a month in Iraq, maybe the 'Rich' could keep their money in their hands.
Please provide documentation of promises you so called promise to everyone aabout everything.

4. You are welcome to your choices as to what constitutes 'attitude' toward life. But perhaps you have never thought about from another perspective than the dogmas you were raised with. In some cultures, killing 100,000+ in order to secure a cheaper wholesale cost on a fuel commodity is worse than the medical procedures to stop the pregnancy of fetuses who would not survive on their own in the outside world. But to each you own. You have the right to not Vote for Obama for whatever reasons you choose, and you even have the right to make a op-ed list of reasons, even if those reasons are mostly falsehoods and dogma wrapped up into a big mess together, but presented on a conspiracy website for some reason. But you have the right to vote for whomever you choose, I just hope you don't get too upset when your candidate loses.

5. Have you actually looked at his voting record? Have you seen what he has voted yes, or no on through out his career? I guarantee that you have not looked as deeply into this talking point as you claim, because if you did, you would find that Obama has a much 'cleaner' record in regard to the rights of U.S. Citizens, and especially its soldiers. Neither Clinton or McCain has a leg to stand on in regard to the amount of good legislation voted on and drafted in compared to the amount of lobby kickbacks and pork added for their constituents.

Most of all I just wanted to say that I personally believe that lists and arguments like this are futile. Obama, with his fresh face, CFR connections, and especially his bloodlines, will be the next president of the United States. That is unless Hillary looking into her crystal ball today was correct, and Obama will be assed out in June by Zimbabwe Sniper fire or whatever it is that she said. That is also God willing, that McCain does not just die any day from natural causes and old age... We all Remember that Reagan died in California in June, I just dont understand it....

DocMoreau


Hillary's Crystal Ball

Unfortunately, a choice between Obama and McCain and I will not be voting at all. Heh, I'll be "present".

The press is kissing Obama's butt so much it is nauseating to watch. I'm annoyed by it now... can't imagine four years of it. Ugh! It _is_ true that none are not allowed to say anything negative about him... yet there is much to say. I'm also worried that if he dies in office or some idiot assasinates him..... we'll have to worship him for ever and ever and ever and..........

He is a smooth talker with no real answers. I'm kind of curious who he would be getting answers from if he is voted into office? The spiritual adviser he's relied on the past twenty some years? Heh!

With Clinton we would be getting two for the money. And things were much better in this Country then. She at least has answers, Obama does not.

It's a shame.... I fear we'll be stuck with McCain.

reply to post by JessicaS


1. 100 % of the Presidents have been male. Do you insist on a male president, too?
Age is tied closely to experience, yes. But not to wisdom or intelligence.
Experience is worth nothing if you don't learn from it.

2. And yet, I bet you one million dollars that the first thing you notice about him is not his age, or his way of speaking, but the colour of his skin.

3. If you're clever enough to figure it out, campaign for president yourself.
As you are not, consider what the other candidates promise - or DON'T promise.

5. Do you think he's suddenly gonna jump it ont he people, call a press conference one day and say, "guess what, I've been a Muslim all the time!"

Originally posted by JessicaS
It was on your West Virgina link... in the comments?

I was referring to YOUR comment that I wasn't voting for Hillary because I'm sexist. Just FYI, I'm a white woman, so if I were voting based on sex and/or color, I would vote for Hillary.

I read through them. I've been called it all, by those who support obama... One friend I said to, "I will never vote for Obama?" and the first thing out of his mouth was "What? Are you racist?" I've read it here all over the place.

That's fine, but neither Obama nor his people are calling you (or anyone) racist for not voting for him. Although I find some of your "reasons" highly suspect. He's too young (I believe the age requirement is 35), he has the gall to call himself "black", he makes political promises

, he might turn into a Muslim before our eyes

and he's only voted on 3,870 out of 4000 votes... At least one of your reasons (abortion) is a political issue.

I've been called by those here as racist. I've been called it all.

Join the club!

I simply bring up sex, to show, anyone can call anyone anything for whatever reason. Doesn't make it true.

Exactly, so what's the problem?

I have no intention to ever vote for Obama. Nothing will EVER change my mind on this. Sorry, I've made my decision on this.

And I have no intention of even trying to change your mind. I'm just debating for the sake of it, because I enjoy it and I find your "reasons" entertaining.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
reply to post by Scramjet76

 

I think a present vote could mean that he agrees with the meat of the bill but you disgaree with various pork and other details.

Yes, that's exactly why a senator or congressperson would vote "present." Congress has a way of attaching all sorts of riders and amendments to otherwise worthwhile bills, riders that have nothing to do with the original bills. It's their way of sneaking pork or very unpopular bills in with the good ones. A senator might not want to vote "nay" on the meat of the bill, but is unable to give it an unqualified "yea" either. Obama explains this in his book, "The Audacity of Hope."

My biggie at the moment (being Memorial Day and all) is I keep seeing that clip of him NOT putting his hand on his chest during the National Anthem.

Is there a clip anywhere where he actually explains this?

I do have a problem with electing a leader who has a problem with respecting our flag. Quite frankly, I think it's bigger than electing the first female president, or the first black president.

Now having the first president that won't salute a flag to me is a problem. I can't see Commander in Chief material here.