Why fear 'Big Brother'?

So many people fear a 'big brother' nation in the western word. With the increase in CCTV cameras all over the place, ANPR systems being installed on police cars and by the roadside, speed cameras, mobile phone calls and text messages being monitored or stored and countless other things which have people quaking in their boots.

Now, I may be lucky and have been blessed with my relaxed attitude towards life, but answer me this...

Have you ever been into a CCTV control room? I have and the large ones are basically a load of operators watching over areas and only taking action when there is an icnident that needs dealing with. The smaller ones.. well most of the time there is a man in his 50's eating a cheese and onion sandwich and drinking coffee just pointing the camera in various directions looking for any trouble. What is to fear of that, it is for our own protection!

Do you really have a problem with with number plate recognition? This is being discussed in another thread so i won't go into any detail but if it keeps illegal vehicles off of the road I don't have a problem with it.

Do you really think that there is someone listening to every phone call you make or every text you send? NO there isn't! Millions of calls are made each day and it would be impossible for actual people to monitor every call. They are monitored for suspicious activity and can be taken from the archives to help intelligence services track certain people.

The average person ie me and most of you will walk past these cameras as just another passer by, your calls and texts will remain in a computer unless there is ever a reason to recall them. Your phones aren't being tapped and your car isn't bugged. You are not that special and it isn't the new world order plotting against you.

If you are hiding something then yes, fear 'big brother' for you WILL be caught. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear so get on with your life and stop worrying.

And someone is bound to say that I have been brainwashed and this is what 'they' want me to think. Well if i live my whole life without intervention as my grandparents did then I'm not gonna let it bother me.

If you believe that I am wrong, I would like to hear your thoughts.

50/50

If you are hiding something then yes, fear 'big brother' for you WILL be caught. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear so get on with your life and stop worrying.

You just don't understand do you. It's got nothing to do with wether or not you have something to hide. It's what they're doing with all this gathered info/tightened security that should worry you. Some people really won't see it until it's too late. I have nothing to hide,I'm already on record for one thing or another but i still don't like all this data gathering one little bit. They know where you are and when,they know who you talk to on your cell phone and who you talk to online. Do you really trust them with all this info?

I don't,not one little bit. In the UK at the moment,well,for the last year or so. There's been a case here and a case there of our precious files lost. Only to be found in squats and stuff. Now,forgive me if i seem a little paranoid,but i see this as a perfect way to make us think that we all need biometric ID cards,cos then it'll all be in one place and can't be lost. It's a sticth up mate. We're being done up like the proverbial kipper. Drip by drip,they're taking our freedoms away and replacing them with police men.

[edit on 21/5/2008 by Acidtastic]

The reason you'd want "bigr brother" is because some humans are corrupt, and the reason people want to avoid it is because some humans are corrupt. I suppose it comes down to which corrupt assholes you'd be more comfortable with screwing you over.

So we have no right to privacy? Which is really what this comes down to. The government is afraid of what its citizens could be planning, its corrupt so its suspect of its people as well.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


For me the issue isn't what they do. It was what they could do. Having worked in the security industry ( I worked for a company that fixed CCTV systems for many councils and businesses in the UK) I have seen the inside of the CCTv rooms.

I realize they probably don't read my emails or listen to my telephone calls...but the point is they could if they wanted to and I find that very distrubing.

It isn't looking out for our safety, that is the lie they tell in order to control us..fear is the biggest motivator.

I think you underestimate technology. They don't even need all that equipment anymore. They have much more advanced stealthy and pervasive ways of keeping an eye on/gathering info on you.

They have tiny bug sized drones, for example. They are completely silent.

I saw a few last summer, around firefly season. First time I'd seen anything like that, so these could've been field tests. They were real easy to spot, because the fireflies were either neon yellow or whitish, and they blinked unevenly, moved erratically. You could tell these drones apart, because of an evenly flashing bright blue LED light... and their ability to travel evenly along the geometry of houses. They were most definitely intelligently controlled by either an advanced nano computer or a remote controller, because whenever I spotted one following me outside, it would fly off behind a house or a car or a tree.

I asked a local anthropologist who works for the city if they were tagging any insects with LED tags, and he said no.

Plus, insects move quite erratically, like I said.

Also... there is much more than just little drone flies. They definitely are just using this public display of CCTV cameras as more of a scare tactic than anything.

I agree with you on the ID cards and I like many others will fight against it. That IS the ultimate loss of liberty. As it stands now though, I don't see anything to be worried about. For a start who are 'they'? Are you referring to the government?

It's what they're doing with all this gathered info/tightened security that should worry you. Some people really won't see it until it's too late. I have nothing to hide,I'm already on record for one thing or another but i still don't like all this data gathering one little bit. They know where you are and when,they know who you talk to on your cell phone and who you talk to online. Do you really trust them with all this info?

Please tell me what you suspect they are going to do with this info?

I just don't understand it. WHY would they need to or want to spy on every single individual? It is not even reasonably possible to do! Having all of my information in one place DOES concern me as it can fall into the wrong hands. but so long as nothihng else directly affects me why should I be worried? If you can help me to understand this, i will be open to changing my mind but from what I see, it is a lot of people jumping up and down worrying about something that doesn't exist.

As for dunwich witch's comments.. this is the kind of statement that makes me roll my eyes back...

[edit on 21-5-2008 by fiftyfifty]

[edit on 21-5-2008 by fiftyfifty]

It's not for security. Big Brother fears the people. They fear that the people will wake up, realize they are slaves to a bunch of perverted old geezers, organize, and take their power back. This fear of being found out is the driving force behind the increased surveillance.

They aren't looking for terrorists. They are the terrorists. What they are looking for is who might be a threat to their ill gotten power.

Fear Big Brother? Hardly. It's them that have something to hide. It's them that fear.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


yes,the "they" was refereing to the goverment/the agencies.

Do you not think that you deserve privacy,or are you just fine with having your records accsessable to "them" Also,what kind of a terrorist implications could this spark. Imagine if "the system" is hacked,criminals will have acsess to your bank records,doctor records,work records,and probably your musical records

It's not safe,please,don't trust it. it will come in labelled as being for our own good,and then it will be turned against us.

Ihighly recommend reading the book: 1984 by orwelll.

It masterfully illustrates the dangers of a "big bro" / police state on a human level; both overtly and the subtleties.

okay, so your happy enough if the government pass a law whereby you mail can be opened and read by the postman if he so chooses? probably not, because the postman has a face, you feel he is an actual person. you think that a machine is storing all your personal/private data, which won't be read without reason and your fine with that. it's a machine, it doesn't care what is in my text message/phone conv./e-mail.

if that's your opinion 50/50, good for you. but what if? what if tomorrow the government decided that discussions that they deemed to be anti-government were a terrorist activity? what if they decided that being a christian meant you were opposed to the secular state? what if, what if, what if?

the thing is, to go along with your attitude that "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" implies that you trust the government to always be looking out for your interests above their own. i cannot honestly say i know of one politician in any country i can believe this about. this may smack of parinoia, but it doesn't make it untrue. politicians routinely sell out friends and colluges in the persuit of power, why in the heck would they look out for me or you?

poltics is motivated solely by power, and power is corrupting. the more power you allow a government to have over you, the more corrupt they will become. this is historical fact.

if you want a lesson in where the big brother socity leads take a look at the eastern bloc countries 20 years ago. you might believe it couldn't happen here, but i don't see why not. the only thing that stops it is a strong political belief in freedom that seems to be lacking in the measures you outlined in you OP.

The idea that only those who have something to hide need worry is flawed.

The current powers that be are real creative with inventing new crimes that deserve punishment.
My wife emailed me that she hated her work and wanted to go postal on them all. A rather innocent comment that we have all likely joked about at one time or another. However, based on these words alone, she could technically be detained and charges raised. How? They would be "Preemptive suppression of a stated domestic terrorist attack." Or something similar.

This is why the ability should not exist for private citizens to be wrongly searched electronically much as it is illegal for a flatfoot to do so to your person.

Plus, data transmission programs weed out and pick through all of the phones, emails, etc. So, no need for mass amounts of people to keep checking randomly through, only to review the results with which to gauge action. Certain phrases or "Coded" transmission go directly into a reaction protocol and get addressed right away without human intervention. People are only needed to cancel it.

Oh the fun with technology...

We can look at my father as a great example.
He's an oustanding citizen, doesn't break any laws, doesn't speed, doesn't even drink or smoke, etc. Has a PHD in Mathematics (or if any deeper level, I wouldn't know/didn't ask), comes from the USSR, he hates communism, and he just simply doesn't do anything wrong.

But he is always paranoid of the police.
He tells me that "They'll stop you for anything these days", for example he got pulled over because he took a right on red when there was somebody on the other side who hadn't even yet start to cross the road. It was also a 6 lane road (3 to 3 from) so there was a good 30 seconds before that person would be NEAR my father's car.

I myself do plenty of illegal things, and other things which are legal but the government views as "ill" such as protests, going on ATS, dealing with other stuff too. So I obviously have a reason to fear the police. But why does a person who does absolutely nothing wrong, ever, have to be constantly paranoid?

I think it is morally, ethically, and completely wrong, that a people have to be afraid of the police, especially if they don't break the law.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


I think you are giving technology way too much credit, either that or you are slightly paranoid.
Next time you see these blue led firefly thingies do us all a favor and capture a few and take some pictures.

I'd like to know if they are made in China or Japan?

Well of course you have nothing to fear if you’re not doing anything wrong. That’s why we all hand out spare copy’s of our keys to everyone we meet, and display all our important personal info like SS#, CC#, bank account #, etc. all over the place. Because no one would ever take advantage of the information they have access to. Well, certain bad people might, but folks in the gov never would, because the gov is god after all, and anyone who serves god is holy and without sin. Therefore you can give those in the gov all your info without worry. All that corruption stuff the media tries to sell us is just to get ratings anyway. Stop doubting your god and serve her with all your obedience now lest you suffer the consequences.

[edit on 21-5-2008 by resistor]

Ironically enough, in my own city, CCTV is not so much helpful. Crimes are very often over long before any real security can arrive and assist in whatever trouble there is. What should be used is real human guards. For now, I have no trouble with being watched in the public space.

But that is also the trick. While there may be nothing to fear now, it could change in the future. In short, the more surveillance there are, the less likely there is to be change, because the powers that be can (and probably will) act much faster and smash whatever uprising there may be. And from what it looks in history, advances have often come with violence through public anger/mistrust etc.

I think to know the fear of Big Brother, or understand it, you need to read 1984, to say the least.

And if you have and still don't understand:
You missed the point.

[edit on 21-5-2008 by Vinci]

Sorry I haven't got enough time to write a full reply right now but Vinci..

He's an oustanding citizen, doesn't break any laws, doesn't speed, doesn't even drink or smoke, etc. Has a PHD in Mathematics (or if any deeper level, I wouldn't know/didn't ask), comes from the USSR, he hates communism, and he just simply doesn't do anything wrong.

and then...

He tells me that "They'll stop you for anything these days", for example he got pulled over because he took a right on red when there was somebody on the other side who hadn't even yet start to cross the road. It was also a 6 lane road (3 to 3 from) so there was a good 30 seconds before that person would be NEAR my father's car.

I know that where I come from, running a red light is illegal whether it appears safe or not and yes, if you are seen doing it you will be stopped!

I will be back later!

Not so much fear big brother, more like detest it. The reason i personally detest it is because i feel like being in a very big zoo where some people can watch and track us while it is not vise versa. The only reason why people do not trust their citizens is when they are doing stuff that is not FOR the people and yeah, maybe we are just realizing this so the track and trace civilization is necessary to keep the status quo intact against the will of the people they should be serving.

I opt for a total mutual transparancy in the most important part of our privacy and that is the financial one. If any future world goverment should arise and they set up a system where everybody, no exceptions whatsoever can be checked by their financial transactions ( be it citizens, businesses or local goverments ) that will be benevitial in the long run in the case of trusthworthyness ( i mean, if you can analyze the moneyflow you can see if their business is honest or predatory ( sweatshops etc ) )

So no, not fearing the Big brother society but i do feel a little indignant by it. I'm not some animal to keep in the zoo called earth.

You should definitely read the book 1984 by George Orwell. It really demonstrates the dangers with a big brother society. Also, as far as I'm aware Orwell was the one who came up with the expression Big Brother.