UPDATE: Jackinthebox convicted on lesser charge in police abuse case

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Are you "starring" yourself? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone is watching this thread so closely that they would star you within seconds of posting. By the way, having multiple accounts is "illegal" here on ATS.

reply to post by jackinthebox


No. I did not miss anything.
You call it "relevant" information when someone says "why didnt you post it in the beginning" and then - afterwards, you call it "irrelevant" by saying it wasnt even a crime, because it was unintentional.

You were drunk
you were armed
you were abusive and trying to intimidate the police officers
they put you in your place.


Sorry if you think im snitching. you can think that if you want. Its more signs of your "im a victim" mentality.

yeah, police hate snitching. Thats why they have hotlines like crimestoppers, and the FBI hotline.

yeah they hate snitching. They'd rather set on their ass in the parking lot at the local dunkin donuts, right?

Please dude. You have issues with police that your'e not revealing. Sorry you got beat. But the beating was no where near as servere as you claim, or you would have additional pictures to show us, besdies a bruise on your arm that could have come from running into the tailgate on your truck.

sorry that your story doesnt add up
and sorry that i pointed out how

you're not even responding to the flaws in your thread
so i guess that means im right?

Cops exist for a reason. And its not to 'enslave us all'

your case, like so many others, proves just that.

for future reference

all you have to do is call someone about your disgusting neighbors.

When you take things into your own hands while intoxicated with a weapon, you get forced out of your house and trouble with the cops.



edit:

Are you "starring" yourself? Because I find it hard to believe that anyone is watching this thread so closely that they would star you within seconds of posting. By the way, having multiple accounts is "illegal" here on ATS.

LOL!!
your'e serious?

you're so full of yourself that you think im the only person who disagree's with your "woe is me" claims of self-inflicted police roughing?

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

You seem to think all forms of authority are corrupt and abusive in their manner of enforcement. regardless of a badge, prestige, or years of dedicated service.

Yes. Law enforcement as it stands today, is a corrupt system, regardless of any individual's service. "Good cop" or "bad", is becoming increasingly irrelevent.

Police are brutal savages, and our men and women in uniform are all just "knuckleheads"

I never said such a thing.

reply to post by jackinthebox


actually - you did. and verbatim. You asked

Where do you think the Army gets their recruits? Any knucklehead off the street can get an M16 and go kill people out in the desert, innocents and all.

So - since you obviously think you can dance around your own assertions.

1.) you ask a question ---- "where do you think the army gets their recruits?
which you, 2 seconds later, show us is actually a rhetorical question

2.) you answer your own question. "any knucklehead off the street"

so - by your OWn assertions - our men and women in uniform are knuckleheads.

You have a severe disrespect for authority.

My guess is you went to pull your weapon out of your pocket, and you got jacked as a result.

Whats the point of carrying a weapon on you anyways?

Is there a lot of 'crime' in your neighborhood, there, batman?

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by jackinthebox


I am glad that you are able to have some closure with this situation Jack, I know an experience like that with the police can leave quite a bitter aftertaste, but you have handled it well. Good luck.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Wow, even going so far as to follow me around to all different threads to gather up off-topic material just to try to bash my character.

Well, since I do mean what I say in most threads (except when I am being ironic or satirical perhaps) and take the subjects seriously, I will go ahead and respond anyway.

i've seen you claim that civility and order did not exist before 1829, and use that as an excuse to say that we would all be better suited to live an anarchist's lifestyle

I never said either. I only pointed out the fact that a dedicated police force did not exist until 1829. If you had gone to college for Criminal Justice as I did, you would know that. In regards to "anarchy" please leave the politics at the door.

but you fail to realize that there were figures of authority prior to 1829. What do you think Americans were fighting in 1779? A bunch of farm boy peasents who came over on a boat?

I never said that there weren't "authority figures." Though civilization did indeed exist and flourish for thousands of years without a POLICE force.

Applied consistently instead of arbitrarily. I see. So the fact that you violated the rights of your neighbor, doesnt give the police the right to protect their rights? You decided to take the law into your own hands. You admitted you were drunk.
You plead guilty - despite claiming to be innocent.
and you ask for equal application of the law.

Sure the police have the right to protect their rights. That's why I came outside and offered myself to them, to answer for what I had done.

I did not decide to "take the law into my own hands." I decided to go tell my neighbor that their cat was crapping all over the neighborhood and that they should take care of the problem.

I don't really see much relevance in the fact that I had some drinks before the incident unfolded.

I pled guilty to avoid spending years in jail for being beat up by two overzealous police officers.

I also try to justify my plea in that it was late when I knocked on their door. Though as I said, it was very late the night I gave them gas money so that they could get to the doctor in the morning, and also late the many other times I saw them out on the porch at night.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

 

Wow, even going so far as to follow me around to all different threads to gather up off-topic material just to try to bash my character.

nothign i have posted has been off topic. you posted it. I've been reading it for a while. doesnt mean i've been "following" you. Please don't flatter yourself

I never said either. I only pointed out the fact that a dedicated police force did not exist until 1829. If you had gone to college for Criminal Justice as I did, you would know that. In regards to "anarchy" please leave the politics at the door.

oh, you didtn say that? hmm.

you said "Gee I wonder how civilization existed for thousands of years without police." Tell me. What is the difference between an "official" police force and an "unofficial" police force. IE: in this example: The redcoats of Great Britian. They enforced law just like a police officer.

Sure the police have the right to protect their rights. That's why I came outside and offered myself to them, to answer for what I had done.

I did not decide to "take the law into my own hands." I decided to go tell my neighbor that their cat was crapping all over the neighborhood and that they should take care of the problem.

I don't really see much relevance in the fact that I had some drinks before the incident unfolded.

Oh? Your own admittance is that if you hadnt been drinking...you would not have broken their window. Personally, i blieve you were a little more aggressive and brash in your approach to your neighbor.

I pled guilty to avoid spending years in jail for being beat up by two overzealous police officers.

....right.

I also try to justify my plea in that it was late when I knocked on their door. Though as I said, it was very late the night I gave them gas money so that they could get to the doctor in the morning, and also late the many other times I saw them out on the porch at night.

So...since you've seen them outside before at that time of night - that gives you permission to go up onto their property. You've made the claim a few times now "I know they were there!!!!"

So? its thier home. They dont have to answer the door. You dont have to go up on their porch. You dont have to get drunk and break their window.


your story is taking yet another turn of events.

Thank you so much for finally offering "explanations" after the falsities in your story have been pointed out.

This story will make a great short story. It can go in the library right between

jack and the beanstalk

_____jackinthebow________

and that jack guy who jumped over a candle stick

it belongs with other fairy tales. You, the innocent peace monger, just enjoying an innocent lager, carrying around your weapons, breaking windows, got assaulted by the police in a manner so brutal it only left a brusie on your arm.

and they lived happily ever after....

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

clearly trying to show your own version of being innocent. This is the first time you neglect to admit you did wrong. Because later - you say it was you that broke the window.

It was indeed I who broke the window. But this was a fact which could not be discussed in a public forum while the case was pending. Hence, this thread. If I was really trying to hide anything, why would I have even bothered to clarify?

So, if it was not done intentionally - and no crime was committed, what was the point of hiding it in your original thread?

Because the case was still pending for one. And admittedly, to see people's responses as well, in that other thread. I was sure that people would jump all over be and accuse of being guilty of a crime, the same way the police had, without having all of the facts.

kind of funny that you proclaim you're bigger and badder than a few police officers. Sort of reaks of "alpha male syndrome"

I never said that I was "bigger and badder." But in point of fact, I am indeed a very large man with training in various forms of both armed and unarmed combat.

The basis of this article is that police use their tasers when its absolutely nessessary.

Apparently not so in this case. Perhaps you should review the Use of Force Continuum

Here is an additional chart...
www.cbp.gov...

And from your source we see...

Usually, if a person does not comply after a third five second “cycle” from the EMDD, police officers should consider using a different technique of force within that level of force being applied.

From this it is clear that the weapon was used excessively, to deliberately and punitively inflict pain and injury.

reply to post by jackinthebox


but you claim they tased you 10 times.

First off, you only show a picture of 3 taser wounds. So that can only prove that you were tased three times. Seems like they used it appropriately.

if your injuries were so severe, why only take a picture of the 3 taser wounds and one weak bruise? it only weakens your case.

you claim you were beaten and kicked in the head and torso

funny you have pictures of neither.

You make on outrageous claim "the judge saw fit to give me justice"

no he didnt. The prosecutor offered you a plea bargin so they didnt have to go thru the semantics of a trial to prove that you're guilty.

If you're guilty, prove guilty.
if you're innocent, plead innocent. What evidence did the police officers have on you?

If, indeed, a squad car was pulling up - certainly the dashboard cam would have picked it up - but i guess they had that turned off as well.

Sorry man, but your "woe is me" attitude will get you no where in life. There are simple, unwritten rules, of society that you've violated.

You stated your assertion through your actions that you felt it was necessarily to go up to their property because "they've been up at this hour before"

if you were knocking on my door at 2 oclock in the morning, drunk, armed, and breaking my window, i'd call the police too.

You got what you deserved, and i believe its a triumph for the American justice system.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

We seem to be talking ourselves in circles.
So lets do a thread that states what i believe the facts are, and you can take it from there

Facts (?):

You were drunk
You were armed

You violated the privacy of your neighbors at the wee hours in the morning
becuase you were angry that their cat was crapping in your yard

you broke their window
(it would seem) that they called the police

the police show up
you appear drunk (?)
you are armed.
you are a big guy - and they are not very big.
You are brash with them by insulting their integrity...

They responded to a call that you were unruly and breaking stuff
and you give them reasonable cause that you're a violent suspect

You get arrested
you plead guilty
you post your story


did i miss anything?

Wiggin, you need to drop it now. What your doing is borderline harassment, enough is enough. Get over it.

Originally posted by FiatLux
Wiggin, you need to drop it now. What your doing is borderline harassment, enough is enough. Get over it.

harrassment?
He posted a story of conspiracy. Im challenging his claim of a police conspiracy.

What YOU are doing is derailing a thread and posting off topic material.

Im analyzing his story...in what way, im curious, is that harrasment?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

Yet your pictures show a medium size bruise on your arm.... repeated kicks in the torso alone are going to leave long-lasting bruises in a highly bruisable area. Kicks in the head will also leave ample amounts of bruising, yet nay a picture of that.

Perhaps you would like to see the scars from the stun gun left on the inside of my ass-cheek? There was plenty of bruising, and plenty of pictures taken. In the interests of preserving some anonymity, I have chosen not to share all of them.

But if you want to know who I am, drop me a U2U so we can meet up. I'll bring along the pictures.

technically speaking - you admitted to being drunk on another persons property. "legally speaking" they'd laugh you out of the court room. Its not public property.

No, actually it was the property of my landlord, who had already been cited for such a violation.

The big hole in your story is the fact that you withhold information left and right. So what else are you holding back? Sounds like a highly unlikely story to me.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. They're like, well, you know, everyone's got one. In the meantime, feel free to ask what you may. I have put myself out there to answer any question asked of me, and have done my best to elaborate.

So - you witnessed a "cracked out officer" punch your highschool girlfriends daughter in the stomach so hard she bled, and that inspired you to wear the badge? Something else not adding up.

(See correction above)

Well, I once believed, as you apparently still do, that a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch. "Waking up" has not been an easy thing for me at all, especially considering all of the police officers in my family.

So no, that did not "inspire me." I hoped to go out and do good, and to make sure that things like that didn't happen on my watch.

First off - you said your fine was $10..another contradiction...

Now you're really grasping at straws aren't you? If you had read what I said, you would see that there is no contradiction. There was no fine. I paid restitution to my landlord.

Because the states attorney has better things to do than waste time with a drunk guy who broke his neighbors window over some cat feces.

Well, if you really believe that, it doesn't really say much for our justice system now does it. The ADA has better things to do than seek justice?

you admitted guilt. Therefore, you are guilty.

Yes, of DISCON as a Violation. If you know anything about the law you will know that this is equivelant to a parking ticket. Are you arguing that people should be beat up and tased when their meter runs out?

I am not derailing your thread, i am challenging your assertions, like any other conspiracy.

Oh, so "derailing" was already on your mind before I went ahead and posted a similar observation. Interesting.

Your challenges are weak, and have largely been addressed already.

I confess, police brutality exists. However, your assertion that its rampant and widespread, and a sort of 'company policy' is one of asinine proportions.

And what is your field of expertise to render such an opinion as a statement of fact?

a very great mind has already debated this very issue, and with a TKO blow, he won it - hands down.

You are aware of what TKO stands for aren't you? Hardly a "hands down" victory in debate of the subject.

But when my niece makes a mistake...breaks something, etc. Her natural response at such a young age is " i didnt do it!" and she'll take that statement to her grave.

Well, I am not your niece. I have made many mistakes in my life, and have done plenty of wrong to boot. I really have no problem admitting that.

You are holding out a lot of information here. So my only reasonable conclusion is that you're hiding it for a reason. What is that reason?

And what information do you think I am holding out on? You are not reaching any reasonable conclusion, you are making an assumption based upon your own biases it appears. Why would I lie? What do I have to gain? Nothing. In fact, I put myself at risk by sharing this information.

Because you deserved it, but cant bring yourself to admit it.

Oh, come on. Do you really believe that? I have taken a thumping a time or two. Sometimes I deserved it, sometimes I didn't. But I have no illusions about myself.

So now we're going to play the word game?

I see.

The fact is, you cannot answer the most fundamental questions.

Do i want to see your ass cheek? nope.
Do i want to meet you in person? Big time nope. why would you even ask that?

If you had been beaten as bad as you claim - you would have posted more pictures of a more convincing nature.

You grasp, out of desperation, for things to hold onto like "oh man, he's starring himself, !!! LOOK nobody else could be against me, im so great"

and

"dude, you're a snitch, ya snitch. Police dont like it when people call them about crimes being commited"

please man. You can't remember one part of your story over another.

Im done arguing with you. Anyone who's read the last 3 pages of this thread knows that you are lying to prove your point.

The only difference is you are bad at lying.
Your story is a good one. Too bad its just fiction.

You got what you deserved. You're lucky it wasnt worse.
Its funny that, when people like you, harrass the police, and give them reason to suspect you for criminal intent

you turn around and claim police brutality

no different than the "dont tase me bro" kid who staged the whole thing. You are after attention, in my opinion, because you are lying about your story.
Im beginning to wonder if anything ever happened at all. If it did, you'd have court papers, and pictures to prove everything. you'd certainly have a $10 dollar fine ticket of some sort.

Police don't take kindly to acts of lawless intoxication with a lethal weapon.

Case Closed: You arent being 100% forthcoming. So i can only conclude that you're being delusional and a pathological liar. You backtrack after i point out inaccuracies. And you get violent and start calling me immature names when i challenge your story of woe.

Have fun wallering in self-pity.
Im gona go donate my 25 dollars to the state police fund.


and for the record

2c.) Multiple Accounts: You will not create multiple user accounts and "talk to yourself".

- from the T&C

its not illegal to have a second account as long as you're not interesecting the two.

I only have one account, i only have TIME for one account. I've been in contact with 4 people via u2u about this very thread.

i know exactly who's been starring my threads.
If you think i'm commiting a violation, why dont you waste the moderators time and alert them to what you think is going on?

[edit on 29-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

Its funny that your tone changes so fast....now your story "isnt important" whereas before it was your magnum opus.....

Well, it was the topic of the thread after all. But the rest I have already explained. Sorry that you had trouble understanding.

I didnt spend an "inordinate" amount of time doing anything. I've been reading your posts basicaly since i got here, so it was really just a matter of recollection from memory.

Oh, so you've been following me around for a few weeks, and think you know me so well now to render judgement, is that it?

If you really don't think that ALL police are corrupt, then i give you credit. But the tone of all your other threads suggest other wise, then when you post this update, i have to call shenanigans.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but this is an old thread now, that you have brought back from the dead. And as far as "all my other threads" go, you must have missed the fact that I post on a variety of subject matter. Perhaps a few weeks on ATS isn't really enough time to investigate after all.

You condone taking things into your own hands like some sort of 'alpha male' vigilante. I say that is what police are for.

Do you call the police when your dog runs away? Do you call an ambulance when you need a band-aid? I have never endorsed any "vigilante" activity, but I certainly believe that people should take responsibility for themselves, and not rely on other people to run to whenever they have a problem.

And I suppose you would have just called the police, instead of talking to your own neighbors about the problem. Like the police have nothing better to do than tell someone to mind their pets better.

You call me derrogatory names as a consequence. Intrepid had to edit out the more insulting ones

Oh drat. I wonder who tattled on me.

The overall trend of all of your threads is that you're the victim and everyone else is the oppressor. Well, either you have the worst luck of any human being that the world has ever herad of, or you inflict these things yourself.

Well, the sad part is, you're a victim too, and you just don't realize it yet.

I suppose it was the Jews' own fault too, along with the millions of people who were oppressed and starved in the old Soviet Union, or all of the people starving in Africa. I'm sure the people of North Korea are to blame too when there is so little food that they eat eachother. You're right, oppression is the fault of the oppressed.

...you were messing around your neighbors house and broke their window. I would have called hte police on you too.

No, I knocked on the door of their apartment, which happened to be in the same house I lived in. Bit of a difference there. And I have no problem with the fact that they called the police.

You assert that it was your girlfriends daugther. as you say "happend to a girlfriend of mine in highschool"

Yes, "what happened to a girlfriend of mine in highschool," not her daughter. Sorry you are having so much trouble understanding.

I suppose it was the Jews' own fault too, along with the millions of people who were oppressed and starved in the old Soviet Union, or all of the people starving in Africa. I'm sure the people of North Korea are to blame too when there is so little food that they eat eachother. You're right, oppression is the fault of the oppressed.

you always know a person is on the run when they bring the holocaust in support of their claim.

Were you put in a concentration camp, starved to death, beaten, raped, ravaged, and tortured?

no?

Then you cant' compare to what the jew's suffered, becuase every time you try, you take away the pain that is associated with their endurance.

You just have a very big chip on a very big shoulder. You are a criminal who can't face up to the fact that you did wrong and got what you deserved.

My responses have more stars than your OP.

Thats hilarious

you know what else is funny? You called me a snitch because you think i reported your post.

you violated the T&C, and get mad at me because a moderator saw fit to edit your post to remove childish name calling insults that would make a 3rd grader blush.


this discussion is over.
You were proven to be witholding information, backtracking your story, and saying one thing, then another.

If it looks like a lie, smells like a lie, and reads like a lie - it must be your tale of woe.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

What time in the evening was it that you went to complain to your neighbors? And how is it that you knew that it was their cats who left the feces on your lawn? According to you in many posts you live out of your car so how is it that you have a lawn to complain about? And you also stated in a previous post that you were once a police officer yourself so you should know how the cops would treat you considering it was night, you were drinking and that you also had a weapon in your possession? The glass looks like it was either punched or elbowed from the fracture marks and the point of impact. Every time I get on here you are changing your story to fit your post. The area you show in the picture looks very much like a very well wooded area, and in such areas many cats can live that might not belong to the people you "talked" to, they could be feral or strays. So why persist in painting false pictures and pretenses if you are homeless like you state so often that you are?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

You call it "relevant" information when someone says "why didnt you post it in the beginning"...

I have already explained this. I posted AT THE BEGINNING of the original thread, that there would be certain information that I would not be able to share until after the case was CONCLUDED.

...and then - afterwards, you call it "irrelevant" by saying it wasnt even a crime, because it was unintentional.

To the contrary. It was highly relevant, thus my inablility to speak of it while the case was pending.

Are you aware of what elements constitute the crimes I was accused of? It seems not.

you were abusive and trying to intimidate the police officers

This is incorrect and illogical.

You have issues with police that your'e not revealing.

I think I have made my issues with the police abundantly clear.

you're not even responding to the flaws in your thread
so i guess that means im right?

Please, refresh us, what have I not already addressed?

you get forced out of your house and trouble with the cops.

I was not forced out of the house. I stood on my front porch waiting for them so that I could explain what had happened.

reply to post by jackinthebox


so now your story is that you were standing out there so you could explain what happened?

Oh, Ok.

Because before, it was that you were approaching them to offer your assistance, because you've been a police officer before.

Nice explanation.

Some of us dont have the memory span of a petstore gold fish...so do try and stick to your own story.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

actually - you did. and verbatim. You asked

This is the last time I will address anything off-topic pulled from another thread. If you choose to tuen this into harrassment instead of debate, we can just count your loss as a TKO.

I never said anything about "all men and women in uniform" being "knuckleheads." I have worn a uniform, and my brother leaves for another tour in Iraq tomorrow morning. So now, you're attempt to twist new meaning from my words has proved futile.

My guess is you went to pull your weapon out of your pocket, and you got jacked as a result.

And you have guessed wrong. I placed my weapon on the deck, in full view of witnesses, and stepped away from it. The police seemed un-concerned about it, and left it sitting there while we began our discussion.

Whats the point of carrying a weapon on you anyways?

What business is that of yours?