UPDATE: Jackinthebox convicted on lesser charge in police abuse case

Originally posted by jackinthebox
I was not willing to risk going to jail for a long time just to make a point.

but you were willing to shoot your mouth to make a point that you are not a coward.

Maybe Jesus should have just kept his mouth shut too. :shk:

So now you are JesusInTheBox?

No need to be blasphemous, Jesus may have turned water to wine but he didn't get drunk.
He may have brought a man back to life but he didn't wake his neighbor from a peaceful sleep.

Puh-Leez. Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice so getting thrown in the slammer for a few years would have been nothing!

reply to post by Alxandro

but you were willing to shoot your mouth to make a point that you are not a coward.

No, more to make the point that they were boring me, and wasting everyone's time. As you are doing now.

Jesus may have turned water to wine but he didn't get drunk.

And you know this how?

He may have brought a man back to life but he didn't wake his neighbor from a peaceful sleep.

Point of fact, the neighbor was not sleeping.

Alexandro.. honestly... READ.

You keep asking stuff that's already answered. "Why'd you plead guilty?" Explained. "Why didn't you tell us you were the one that broke the window?" Explained... and uh, freaking obvious also, since the case hadn't gone to trial yet.

I'll tell you what. I've got a stun gun right here in my bedroom with you. It works the same as a taser, except without the wires that shoot out. A taser shocks for about 8 seconds, if I remember correctly, with each "tasing." So here's my proposal: Let me give you ten, eight-second shots while a friend of mine boot stomps you in the face.

When you get back up (an hour later), you just come back on here and tell us all if you think that's the appropriate force needed to subdue somebody who's not even fighting back to begin with.

And here's my question for you. Why are you so insistent that JITB deserved the treatment he got? Do you have some grudge against him from another conversation, or do you just have a cop fetish?

EDIT: Scratch what I said about "somebody who's not even fighting back." After you've been on the receiving end of that, you'll know darn well that ANYONE would be done resisting long before that beating even reached the halfway point.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by mattifikation]

Originally posted by jackinthebox

My real point to bringing my own story to everyone's attention, was to highlight the sorts of things that happen ever single day, probably in every single town, that never makes it to the newpaper or the airwaves. This is the reality now. No one is immune from being the victim of such violations.

Just like what I witnessed. I hear a 'CRASH" outside (I live right off a 4lane highway). I jumped up and opened the door and saw a cop car rolling to a stop, and a motorcycle wheel with par of the forks attached rolling down the hill and stops about 5 feet from my front door. I watched, and there was a guy not moving up at the top of the driveway. After gawking and watching the whole thing, it ended up that a motorcycle slammed into the back of the cop car (sheriff). There were 2 riders on the bike. The passenger flew with the bike, which hit the pole about 6 feet up, while the driver went straight over the top of the car and landed on the top of the hill.

When I went out to see the skid marks in the morning, it was immediatly apparent what I had thought the night before. The skid marks showed that the cop had been sitting on the side of the road and pulled out in front of the bike... and pretty quickly. A motorcyclist would've been able to swerve around any car. Also, when I went out, the officer did NOT have his lights on. I know this was simply neglect on the officer's part, however there was NEVER any report on it at all. Nothing in the form of public access, anyways. Imagine that! BUT when a driver of a truck hit a motorcycle cop that was speeding without his cherries and berries, it was all over the news for weeks! It was neglect on the officer's part (they tried to play that down, of course), but they still managed to demonize the guy for it, like he was a cop killer.

The community supports it, because the media reports it.

Originally posted by Alxandro
It has nothing to do with cowering to them, it's about not giving them the impression that your intent is to escalate the situation.

Their job should have been to investigate and as questions.
Why divulge additional information and make unwarranted comments?

The trend seems to be that they have become somewhat newage hunters. They were bullies in school The primitive part of the brain is not satisfied for some individuals, and apparently these people go into military and law enforcement positions to fulfill that need. They may not do it on purpose, but they do it nonetheless. In my experience, alot of officers are looking for a fight. They will provoke you, and I've seen it done. I've had a couple friends work at the PD here. Almost every desk in that place has that particular officer's picture with them, lots of guns, big game trophy, etc. All the talk in the place is about guns and just generally violent content, which I probably shouldn't speak of... basically certain cases that involved some kind of violent measure to be taken. I've personally overheard officers at the courthouse engaged in casual conversation about 'taking someone down' like it was a trphy game takedown. The mentality is apparently addictive, or every person who enrolls as an officer is just that way, or trained to think like that. I don't know why they are, for sure.

Anyway, it's over so nothing else matters, but if you still feel you were right all along, why did you plead guilty?

Not answering FOR JITB, but if I was in that situation, I really wouldn't want to give them a reason to mark me for anything. It's really hard to prove harassment when multiple officers are in on it. They can pull you over for anything. I've been pulled over for alegedly "swerving back there...", just because I was profiled by the officer and he wanted reason to search my truck for something or another. Why make yourself a target for future attacks? I think it was the smartest play on JITB's part... not the most noble, but still smart.



Sorry to hear about the... we'll call them 'misfortunes'. Honestly, if you ever want to move somewhere else, take a week trip to Fort Collins, CO. They are more your type of people... it's kinda like hanging out on ATS, but with a few more fratboys... but they are generally pretty kewl as well.

Good to hear it worked out relatively well for you, jack.

And when one thinks, if these 2 thugs would have handled themselves in even a semi-professional manner... like back in the good ol' days... this would have been taken care of that night, I am sure. Instead it drags out over a year(?) and costs an untold amount of man-hours, wasted paperwork and money.

As I've stated before... everything is just so screwed up in this world... and the lack of 'good sense' is running rampant (esp. with the po-po)... the best thing we can hope for is a direct hit by a giant asteroid. The lucky ones die quickly... the unlucky ones get to struggle to survive and rebuild. I truly hate this world anymore...

Have a nice day!

reply to post by mattifikation

Scratch what I said about "somebody who's not even fighting back." After you've been on the receiving end of that, you'll know darn well that ANYONE would be done resisting long before that beating even reached the halfway point.

Actually, the only "fighting back" I did was to yell, "just put the #in' cuffs on me!" My arms were extended out and motionless. An all too easy cuff-up for them. I tried to lay as still and limp as possible, though the stun-gun does cause some jerking muscle reactions. You will also notice in some of the pictures I provided, that the scars from the stun gun are all on my back and sides, clearly showing that I was face-down. Eventually, I did start just deliriously screaming for help as loud as I possibly could, and gave up on the "play-dead" strategy as I tried to crawl back into my apartment.

The only thing that saved me, was that another cruiser came down the street, and the officers turned to notice the neighbors who had been watching all along from their driveway.

reply to post by Earthscum

Sorry to hear about the... we'll call them 'misfortunes'. Honestly, if you ever want to move somewhere else, take a week trip to Fort Collins, CO. They are more your type of people... it's kinda like hanging out on ATS, but with a few more fratboys... but they are generally pretty kewl as well.

Nice. My brother bought a house in Colorodo Springs last year, and he keeps telling me to get my # in order and move out there. (Not in with him and his new wife though, so I have to have a job and a place already in order before I make the move.) I hear a lot of good things about that state.

reply to post by mattifikation


My point is, if you know the cops are a-- holes to begin with, why give them a reason to harass you?

If they ask you a question, answer the question.
If they make some off the wall, inappropriate comment, don't reply, plain and simple.

I'm not defending the cops because what they did was wrong and I don't have anything against Jack, I just don't understand why he has the victim mentality for everything. If you've read many of his other posts you'll know what I mean, he has the propensity for self pity and authority always is to blame.
I'm sure the cops picked up on his attitude as well which is probably why they decided to push his buttons, and he allowed himself to fall into their trap.

Now he is comparing himself to Jesus? Come on now.

Like I said, I don't have anything against him, I'll gladly buy him a beer or two like the other guy in the original thread offered, but knowing him, I wouldn't be surprised if he griped about the beer I got him.

My brother bought a house in Colorodo Springs last year, and he keeps telling me to get my # in order and move out there.

See what I mean, even his own brother tells him to shape up.



[edit on 23-5-2008 by Alxandro]

reply to post by Alxandro

See what I mean, even his own brother tells him to shape up.

Keep your beer. My brother was referring to getting this case cleared up so I could leave the state. Do you think before you post?

reply to post by jackinthebox


ya know whats funny about stories like this, is that the "victim" never tells the whole story.

I have a similar incident that happened to an "ex-friend" of mine. he had been babysitting his daugther (after he cheated on his wife and left her high and dry) she still let him see his daughter.

Anyways

He was DRUNK out of his mind. He had called me, and asked me to come over to pick up some of his wife's stuff. When i showed up, i could tell he was wasted, and he was watching his 1 year old daughter by himself

as i was leaving, i called the police. i set out in the parking lot and watch all this transpire

the police show up
assess that he's drunk
attempt to take the child
he attacks a police officer
they put him down after 3 taser blasts.

He was on the news 5 days later, claiming police brutality. Never told them he was drunk and with a 1 year old by himself with nobody around. Never told them that the police were just trying to protect the child.
Never told them that he swung first.

That bastard got what he deserved.



Given your history of 'anti-police' mentality that is viewable in other threads, i'd say there's more to this story than meets the eye.

its the cliche story of "i was so innocent and they beat me for it" that you see every day of the year, that usually gets proven otherwise.

The fact that you leave out your own wrong doings
the fact that you disregard the law to benefit you, and instead decide to take the law into your own hands

all tells me that you did something you werent supposed to

while i can't prove it
it sounds to me that you, like many others, got EXACTLY what you deserved.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

If you think I have lied here, that's your own problem. Wait until it's your turn, but don't come whining to me.

Got kids? Wait until your little daughter gets punched in the stomach so hard that it causes bleeding, by some coke-head Trooper like happened to a girlfriend of mine in high school.

Go be a sheep.

If you were so concerned about the kid, why didn't you do something about it instead of calling the police? Even cops don't like sissy little snitches.

EDIT to add: I'm not saying it's okay to be drunk around kids either. Just to be clear.



[edit on 6/28/0808 by jackinthebox]

Edit: Removed insults.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by intrepid]

reply to post by jackinthebox


Wow. You sure know how to express your opinion.
Why didnt i do something about it?
What can i do about it that wont entail my winding up in jail as well?

The police exist for a reason. And its not to 'enslave us all'. There are corrupt police, this is true in all facets of all societies. There will always be corruption somewhere

but to insist that a small % of corruption makes it okay to break the law, is asinine in my opinion.


[edit] I never said you LIED. Im sayign i believe you're witholding information. I do believe that the police were aggressive with you, but i also believe that you may have done something to provoke the aggressive behavior.
Big difference.

and you say

Got kids? Wait until your little daughter gets punched in the stomach so hard that it causes bleeding, by some coke-head Trooper like happened to a girlfriend of mine in high school.

So...from reading that i have 2 questions
1.) How old was the "daughter" that got punched in the stomach? I mean, honestly-- how old could she be, if you and your girlfriend were in high school?
2.) If the officer was a coke-head, why did you not file charges? Every time a charge is filed, an investigation is brought into it. I.A. (internal affairs) would have a feild day with a case like that. A simple drug test would be all it took to prove he was high on coc aine....

Go be a sheep.

If you were so concerned about the kid, why didn't you do something about it instead of calling the police? Even cops don't like sissy little snitches

Awwww. Poor guy. Did my questioning of yoru story hurt your feelings?
You can leave the personal insults at the door where they belong man.

"even cops dont like sissy little snitches"

Yeah!! Cops hate it when you call them when someone is comitting a crime. They'd rather you handle it yourself, because you have a very extensive understanding of city, state, and federal law from all those blogosphere subscriptions you have.

I believe they put a commercial out recently about this.

You may have seen it on TV



'ruff

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

so. From what i've been able to digest of your stance on the police brutality conspiracy is this:

You seem to think all forms of authority are corrupt and abusive in their manner of enforcement. regardless of a badge, prestige, or years of dedicated service. Police are brutal savages, and our men and women in uniform are all just "knuckleheads"

Jackinthebox:

Where do you think the Army gets their recruits? Any knucklehead off the street can get an M16 and go kill people out in the desert, innocents and all.

Source

i've seen you claim that civility and order did not exist before 1829, and use that as an excuse to say that we would all be better suited to live an anarchist's lifestyle

Is it now? Gee I wonder how civilization existed for thousands of years without police. Maybe you weren't aware of the fact that the first police force did not exist until 1829, in London.

source
but you fail to realize that there were figures of authority prior to 1829. What do you think Americans were fighting in 1779? A bunch of farm boy peasents who came over on a boat?



you show your hypocrisy in this next sample when you say

Well, there certianly is a world of difference between what should be and what is, I'll give you that. But there is no justice when laws are not applied consistently, and are applied arbitrarily instead.

source

Applied consistently instead of arbitrarily. I see. So the fact that you violated the rights of your neighbor, doesnt give the police the right to protect their rights? You decided to take the law into your own hands. You admitted you were drunk.
You plead guilty - despite claiming to be innocent.
and you ask for equal application of the law.

Alright then, what should the police have done? Well, its hard to say 100%, since there are obvious gaps in your story, so we'll go with what you've provided us:

you start off with

The police were in the neighborhood investigating a broken window at my neighbors’ apartment at about two in the morning.

Source

clearly trying to show your own version of being innocent. This is the first time you neglect to admit you did wrong. Because later - you say it was you that broke the window.

I did in fact break the window, but no crime was committed, as I had not done so intentionally.

source


So, if it was not done intentionally - and no crime was committed, what was the point of hiding it in your original thread?

next:

I asked to be allowed to empty my pockets before we engaged in conversation, as I had been drinking a bit and was armed.

You are

drunk
and armed

though anyone who knows me, or even had an idea about my size, would know that these two officers certainly would not have come away unscathed had I decided to engage them.

kind of funny that you proclaim you're bigger and badder than a few police officers. Sort of reaks of "alpha male syndrome"

So, what do we have so far?

• you are drunk
  
• you are armed
  
• you are a big guy with a cocky alpha male attitude that you wear on your sleeve.
  

that last one proven by this statement:

I responded by making a wise-crack along the lines of not really being afraid of a few local cops from their small department.

now - a simple google search will bring up the Following result .

The basis of this article is that police use their tasers when its absolutely nessessary.


you claim

In an instant, I was face-down on my front porch. I was kicked about my torso and in the head repeatedly.

Yet your pictures show a medium size bruise on your arm.... repeated kicks in the torso alone are going to leave long-lasting bruises in a highly bruisable area. Kicks in the head will also leave ample amounts of bruising, yet nay a picture of that.

A hand-held stun gun was applied to my back and legs ten times

but your picture shows 3 taser marks.....i believe 10 times of usage would leave more than 3 marks.



you say

Legally speaking, I probably could have sued over the lack of lighting on the property, and the obstacles in an area where people might reasonably be expected to walk

technically speaking - you admitted to being drunk on another persons property. "legally speaking" they'd laugh you out of the court room. Its not public property.



So what we have now:

You were drunk
you were armed
the cops show up to investigate a broken window
you make yourself an intimidating force and are insulting police officers at the wee hours in the morning.....
and for no reason what so ever - they decide to attack you?

The big hole in your story is the fact that you withhold information left and right. So what else are you holding back? Sounds like a highly unlikely story to me.


you ask me:

Got kids? Wait until your little daughter gets punched in the stomach so hard that it causes bleeding, by some coke-head Trooper like happened to a girlfriend of mine in high school.

source

but claim

Having worn a shield for several years

source

So - you witnessed a "cracked out officer" punch your highschool girlfriends daughter in the stomach so hard she bled, and that inspired you to wear the badge? Something else not adding up.

and by far, what i think, is the funiest part of this story?

Apparently the judge felt the need to render justice in my favor as well, electing to impose no fine and waiving all court fees.

First off - you said your fine was $10..another contradiction...

secondly ...

He rendered justice for you??

No.
you were offered a plea bargin and you took it.


Why?
Because the states attorney has better things to do than waste time with a drunk guy who broke his neighbors window over some cat feces.

you admitted guilt. Therefore, you are guilty.

All around - you seem to talk yourself in circles on this story, so this is why i am skeptical. I am not derailing your thread, i am challenging your assertions, like any other conspiracy. you claim brutality.

I confess, police brutality exists. However, your assertion that its rampant and widespread, and a sort of 'company policy' is one of asinine proportions.

a very great mind has already debated this very issue, and with a TKO blow, he won it - hands down. Bad Cops debate


Again - i proclaim - i am not saying there is no such thing as a bad cop.

But your story of 'woe' reminds me of my own neice. (not comparing you to a girl)

But when my niece makes a mistake...breaks something, etc. Her natural response at such a young age is " i didnt do it!" and she'll take that statement to her grave.

You were beat by the cops and have only a bruise to show for it.

i've gotten worse slamming my hand in the door on my car.


You are holding out a lot of information here. So my only reasonable conclusion is that you're hiding it for a reason. What is that reason?

Because you deserved it, but cant bring yourself to admit it.























[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Wiggin, in your own words "Again - i proclaim - i am not saying there is no such thing as a bad cop.". Then why are you doing your best to bash what JITB is trying to say? Do you want him to tell names? Do you want each and every little gory detail?

If that`s the case, any time someone comes on these forums and tells a personal story of something that has happened to them, that means they must tell of every little skeleton that is in their closet. No, I don`t believe so, some things just need to be left unsaid. It`s fine to disagree with some things that others say, but it`s another to beat a point to death.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by FiatLux]

reply to post by FiatLux


im not beating it to death.
im pointing out major flaws in his story.

Not everyone is lying, and im not saying 100% that he is lying. Im saying based on the evidence that he has given us - he is probably making all of this up.

If you can't read my post in its entirety - you would probably come to a conclusion that im just "picking on him"

well sorry - but after reading this guy's posts for a while - something finally connected and it made sense.

What made sense?
It wasnt his story - thats for sure.

If you're going to post anything - you better be ready for scrutiny.
if you can't handle the scrutiny - you shouldnt post.

its also best to post the entire story - not bits and pieces at a time. Leaves big chasms for which information can drop into and make people say "hmm, i wonder what else he's not telling us"

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin


Wow, you've certainly spent an inordinate amount of time trying to discredit me, I'm flattered. I'm also curious as to your motivations, seeing that you haven't even been here a month yet.

And really, my case is not very important at all in the overall scheme of things. There are people being murdered by the police, and innocent people being sent to prison, which I certainly think are far greater concerns. The only reason I even bothered to share this case, was to point out the sort of things that happen far more regularly, but are never reported, for the simple fact that they aren't worthy of the headlines.

This case alone really isn't all that important at all. The pattern is what is important.


However, being that I did bring this case to light and started these threads, I feel I am obliged to make a full rebuttal here. To my fellow ATS members, please be patient while I do so point by point.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

What can i do about it that wont entail my winding up in jail as well?

Maybe be a friend to your friend. Offer to watch the child. Stay until your friend sobered up. Call a family member perhaps. Seems to me that you may have had some ulterior motive in getting youtr friend in trouble. Were you screwing his wife? I only ask since you made sure to point out that your friend had cheated on his wife.

The police exist for a reason. And its not to 'enslave us all'. There are corrupt police, this is true in all facets of all societies. There will always be corruption somewhere

What happened to me was not about one lone rogue police officer. What happened to me was the result of the overall police-state militant mentality of a corrupt system. I don't think, that these officers think, what they did was wrong. That is the problem. Like in the case of the Trooper who tased the young man in front of his wife and child over a speeding ticket. The Trooper did not seem "corrupt" and actually seemed like a real good guy, but what he did was comlpetely uncalled for and reflected the mentality of today's police forces.

but to insist that a small % of corruption makes it okay to break the law, is asinine in my opinion.

Who ever said that it is "okay" to break the law?

But then again, there are so many asinine laws that even you can't go through a day without breaking one, and you probably don't even realize that.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

1.) How old was the "daughter" that got punched in the stomach? I mean, honestly-- how old could she be, if you and your girlfriend were in high school?

No, you misunderstood. It was my girlfriend, the daughter of my neighbor. I only mentioned the word "daughter" to put it into the perspective of an adult looking at the event, and to highlight the fact that this had happened to a teen-aged girl. Perhaps you are not yet old enough to know what it would be like to have something like that happen to your own daughter.

2.) If the officer was a coke-head, why did you not file charges? Every time a charge is filed, an investigation is brought into it. I.A. (internal affairs) would have a feild day with a case like that. A simple drug test would be all it took to prove he was high on coc aine....

We tried to, but her father, along with a good friend who was a Senior Investigator in the State Police decided it would be best to not pursue the case. It was handled "in-house" you could say.

The investigation into the incident is how we actually learned that the Trooper was a coke addict, and had been shaking people down in the area for some time. We just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Unknown to us when we sat watching the planes coming and going from a local airport that night, that the parking lot was a hotspot for drug sales. The Trooper and the Sergeant on the scene were both removed from duty, but were later reinstated elsewhere in the state with the same police force.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Its funny that your tone changes so fast....now your story "isnt important" whereas before it was your magnum opus.....

I didnt spend an "inordinate" amount of time doing anything. I've been reading your posts basicaly since i got here, so it was really just a matter of recollection from memory.

your responses do more dancing around.

If you really don't think that ALL police are corrupt, then i give you credit. But the tone of all your other threads suggest other wise, then when you post this update, i have to call shenanigans.

You condone taking things into your own hands like some sort of 'alpha male' vigilante. I say that is what police are for. You call me derrogatory names as a consequence. Intrepid had to edit out the more insulting ones

So this just basically tells me that you're insecure.

The overall trend of all of your threads is that you're the victim and everyone else is the oppressor. Well, either you have the worst luck of any human being that the world has ever herad of, or you inflict these things yourself.

Regardless, i believe i've pointed out some obvious flaws in your story, and i believe you reinfornce my assertions by your complete 180 in your approach.

It was an interesting story. But a story none the less.

The facts are the same. You broke the law. you were drunk. you were armed. you were messing around your neighbors house and broke their window. I would have called hte police on you too.

edit:

and no - i didnt understand anything at all. All you're doing is back tracking

Got kids? Wait until your little daughter gets punched in the stomach so hard that it causes bleeding, by some coke-head Trooper like happened to a girlfriend of mine in high school.

You assert that it was your girlfriends daugther. as you say "happend to a girlfriend of mine in highschool"

sorry. But you dont get to rebut that, you said it, not me.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

Yeah!! Cops hate it when you call them when someone is comitting a crime.

You reveal your lack of understanding of the subject. No one likes a rat. Sure cops will take the information, and use it how they see fit, but even the police have no respect for a snitch.

And the reason for that is, that the police know full well that a rat only snitches when they have something to gain. Wether it is a self-gratifying feeling of importance, to eliminate competition, or even to gain favor with someone's wife perhaps.

[edit] I never said you LIED. Im sayign i believe you're witholding information. I do believe that the police were aggressive with you, but i also believe that you may have done something to provoke the aggressive behavior.
Big difference.

I did indeed withold certain information while the case was pending, as I have already explained. But since the case has been concluded, I decided to open this thread to "come clean" on the relevant details that were left out originally. That was actually the whole purpose of this UPDATE, in case you missed it.