Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Grey_Mysterio
Anyway at the start of the thread there was this big word war between augustus and fire dude which were nothing more than a synonyms fight.

I found Terry (fire-in-the-minds-of-men) to be a very worthy debator and someone who has earned my repsect.

It should also be known that he is a published author and an exceptional writer.

I have to admit I never really understood why Freemasons praise Terry. Its true, he wrote a book (but not from a respectable publisher, its a publisher that will publish anything conspiracy - bordering on a vanity press). And as conspiracy books go, his book is probably among the least egregious offenders of reality in that a good portion of it is correct in terms of how he deals with the real historical Illuminati.But he quickly launches off into insane conspiracy babble, as he did during his time on this forum.

Maybe its a comparative thing? Since most people who get into freemasonry/Illuminati/etc. conspiracy theorists are so wrong, when you happen to find one who doesn't appear to be completely disconnected from reality its so refreshing that you start to like them?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Regarding Ladyk's thread..if i may play the devils advocate slightly the poster did say about intentions to only throw in various snippets of ideas found here and there. It was a bit amusing and fun to see how people find connections like that as i certainly would not have found them. Illuminati as a popular fiction or in the form of corporate power or political new world agenda is strangely attractive to masses.

Maybe masonry should not come under secret societies section at all.

Ok so i did say i am open minded. So i am just raising some issues that are out there. Again dont think i am spilling out conspiracies without proof. I have no proof or sides.

How would you address the popular accusations about being affiliated to illuminati, templars or rotary clubs or zionists?

I read an article stating that Freemasonry was on a rebranding excercise to move away from myths and get away the secret tag. The Future of Freemasonry, researched by the Social Issues Research Centre, aims to start an "open and transparent" discussion ahead of the group's tercentenary in 2017. But there is still a cultish and alluring factor like offering progression to higher level of knowledge. What is your take on this?
Also to a claim that people tend to join the Masons not because it is a community group raising money for charity but for its "snob factor" and history.

There are other things but thats it for now. And about the whole writing style forget i said anything. I do not think my point will be understood so not bringing that subject again.

Originally posted by thelongjourney
I have to admit I never really understood why Freemasons praise Terry. Its true, he wrote a book (but not from a respectable publisher, its a publisher that will publish anything conspiracy - bordering on a vanity press). And as conspiracy books go, his book is probably among the least egregious offenders of reality in that a good portion of it is correct in terms of how he deals with the real historical Illuminati.But he quickly launches off into insane conspiracy babble, as he did during his time on this forum.

From additional conversations I have had it would seem the publisher wanted that in to 'pump' up the book. The meat and potatoes is the flawless research on the Bavarian Illuminati and the use of their actual correspondence to support all of his points. There is not a better book on this group than Terry's.

Originally posted by Grey_Mysterio
Regarding Ladyk's thread..if i may play the devils advocate slightly the poster did say about intentions to only throw in various snippets of ideas found here and there. It was a bit amusing and fun to see how people find connections like that as i certainly would not have found them. Illuminati as a popular fiction or in the form of corporate power or political new world agenda is strangely attractive to masses.

She certainly did mix in a tremendous ammount of material and in my opinion much to the detriment of her thread. When you dump everything in a big bucket and call it solved you do no one, including yourself, any justice. Her evidence had numerous holes which were pointed out and subsequently ignored.

How would you address the popular accusations about being affiliated to illuminati, templars or rotary clubs or zionists?

What Illuminati? The Bavarian? If so they ceased to exist over 200 years ago. I do not believe in any current manifestation of them.

Masonry is not related to the Templars, it was a popular 19th Century misconception. It actuality Opperative Masonry predates the Templar by a couple of hundred years as evidenced by the Regius Poem.

The rotary club? I am sure there is some cross-membership but what would be the detrimental side effect?

I am sure there are some Zionist Masons, just as I am as equally sure that there are anti-Zionist Masons. Zionism is a political movement and politics is not discussed in the lodge, ever.

I read an article stating that Freemasonry was on a rebranding excercise to move away from myths and get away the secret tag. The Future of Freemasonry, researched by the Social Issues Research Centre, aims to start an "open and transparent" discussion ahead of the group's tercentenary in 2017. But there is still a cultish and alluring factor like offering progression to higher level of knowledge. What is your take on this?

I find the bulk of the members joining my lodge are younger and looking specifically for the esoteric and spritual aspects of the Fraternity.

Also to a claim that people tend to join the Masons not because it is a community group raising money for charity but for its "snob factor" and history.

The mix of occupations in my lodge is across the board. If I were to have to put a label on the majority of members it would be middle-class. There is no 'snob factor' evident nor espoused.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

 

I have yet to see one individual prove that there is a ‘Masonic’ conspiracy of any type taking place. There has been a distinct inability by numerous posters to support their assertions that Freemasons and/or Freemasonry are somehow participating in various plots and conspiracies with the intention to perform one or more of the following; world domination by ‘high-level’ Masons, conversion to a one-world religion, the practice of worshipping Satan and/or Lucifer, pedophilia, mind-control and gang-stalking among more notable (notorious?) examples.

I have yet to see anyone, anywhere offer even the faintest glimmer of proof that would help substantiate or corroborate these remarks or beliefs. The typical ‘fact’ presented is the re-hashed opinion of another who has done no research of there own.

What is the underlying cause? Are they self-promoting with the hopes of ‘rising’ to the infamy of people like Icke? Are they just regurgitating theories they have heard in regards Masonry? Or are they- and this is the theory I tend to favor- completely unaware that there is no Masonic conspiracy?

I do not think anyone can prove, with the evidence that has thus far been provided, a conspiracy of Masonic nature, nor will they.

 

I am just guessing but usually that means there is no proof although i could be wrong. I see no point in accusing anyone until i have proper proof to back me up so i do not look foolish because i hate looking foolish.. I have noticed a lot of anger against the Masons and at first i was stunned but i do not know enough to even make an educated guess for or against the Masons. What i thought i knew seems to be argued against at every corner here at ATS. Why such a grudge ?

Originally posted by remodified
Why such a grudge ?

I tend to place it squarely and solely on ignorance.

Maybe this picture will help prove to you that the Masons are taking over the world. or have at least taken over America.

I'ts the IRS Headquarters, Maryland.

Note the two Masonic pillers, and the pyramid.

More infomation in link below.

vigilantcitizen.com...

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I find the bulk of the members joining my lodge are younger and looking specifically for the esoteric and spritual aspects of the Fraternity.

An observation that jibes with my lodge here in Ontario. I think if anything, the Internet and (to a certain degree) conspiracy sites like ATS have actually helped foster interest in Masonry. Sure, some will take up old silliness and repeat it as Gospel; but they're in the small minority and the majority who're going to have an opinion one way or another are more likely to hold a positive one.

As it is, we're hard-pressed to keep ahead of the applications for membership but that isn't a universal truth. Saurus' experience in South Africa sounds similar to some of the lodges in my own district, one whose youngest member is in his late 50s and which anyone in the area interested in the Craft would be hard-pressed to find out about. We've made ourselves readily accessible and while we have our own web page, Facebook page and Twitter account and are going like topsy, some older hands I'm sure would see this level of openness as innovation (not a good thing in Masonry) and quite at odds with the fraternity when they joined. However, the only constant in life is change and if Masonry didn't embrace some change (change in keeping with traditions), it would without a doubt disappear. Some would consider this a good thing but I would suggest they could honestly be counted on the less forward-thinking

HTH
Fitz

Originally posted by TVeducated
Note the two Masonic pillers, and the pyramid.

If they were Masonic 'pillers' they would have a sphere of the earth atop one and the heavens on another.

This is all easily found by several methods.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
As it is, we're hard-pressed to keep ahead of the applications for membership but that isn't a universal truth.

Fortunately for my lodge it is. One of the aspects of having been Master last year that I took pride in was that we initiated 17 new members. Most, by far, in over ten years and will still have a back log of applicants for my lucky (ah-hem) replacement.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I take it you didn't bother to click the link and read the full article.

Nope didn't think you did.

Just another Mason in denial.

reply to post by TVeducated

Pillars do not designate anything as Masonic. Plus, those pillars are not Masonic as Augustus pointed out.

reply to post by TVeducated

We've read it. You're not the first to post this here.

You're just another anti-Mason blindly following any harebrained idea that gets posted on any hack site.

Originally posted by TVeducated
I take it you didn't bother to click the link and read the full article.

Do you think you are the first person to to link that article? You are not even original in your use of poor sources.

Just another Mason in denial.

Yeah, whatever you say.

From the Fellowcraft Lecture:

They were further adorned by two globes, or spherical bodies, on the surfaces of which were represented the countries, the seas and various parts of the earth, the face of the heavens, the planetary orbits and other important particulars.

Nope, no hands. Nice try though.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by TVeducated

 

Pillars do not designate anything as Masonic. Plus, those pillars are not Masonic as Augustus pointed out.

I'd laugh if there was a little figure-8 walking path around the base of those pillars. Quite fitting I should think

Fitz

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You can't or won't ever see the wood for trees.

I'm not wasteing my time getting into it with you.

Have a good one.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by TVeducated

 

Pillars do not designate anything as Masonic. Plus, those pillars are not Masonic as Augustus pointed out.

reply to post by TVeducated

 

We've read it. You're not the first to post this here.

You're just another anti-Mason blindly following any harebrained idea that gets posted on any hack site.

And you Sir most likey think Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman. And that the American Govenment had nothing to do with 911.

I on the the other hand am not naive enough to be fooled by such barefaced lies.

And they say the Masons are enlightened, I beg to differ, you're just a more obedient form of sheep then the rest of us.

Have a good one.

Baa'

Originally posted by TVeducated
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

You can't or won't ever see the wood for trees.

I'm not wasteing my time getting into it with you.

Have a good one.

Is that a promise? I mean you've provided such in-depth and detailed analysis supporting your assertion that it'd be a shame for you to just walk away. Nonetheless, ta-ta!

Fitz

p.s. You take AM to task assuming he hasn't looked at your conspiracy site link. But did you? Did you see anywhere in that page where the Temple pillars are described as having hands sticking out? Of is it sufficient that any two pillars of any shape with anything whatsoever surmounting them sufficient to qualify them as being inherently and evily Masonic?

p.p.s. And here's another challenge for you: if these things are inherently Masonic, it necessarily follows that they should be recreated worldwide at tax-collection agency buildings everywhere because we all know that Freemasons control every country in the world. I'm waiting with bated breath for you to show me the Canadian version.

p.p.p.s. If there aren't man-made pillars, are a pair of trees sufficient stand-in for emblematic purposes?

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


The IRS Isn't even owned by the American Govenment:

You might think that the I.R.S. is owned by our government. A branch that collects taxes from the citizens in order to fund our government. If you think that, you would be wrong.

The I.R.S. is owned by entities outside our country, and by its operation is a collection agency for the Federal Reserve. As you may know, the Federal Reserve is not a governmental agency, but it is a private bank that lends our government money. Our tax money is collected by the I.R.S. and sent directly to the Federal Reserve banking system.
.

www.thedailydigest.org...

Again have a good one

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Go Canada:

The judicial manipulations of Freemasonry are now under review by the Supreme Court of Canada in a precedent setting case that could result in the banishment for Freemason lawyers and judges from Canada's courts and set an international legal precedent with far reaching implications.

This unique case, that is not reported in the Canadian media, arose when I was convicted of tax evasion and served 12 months in jail as a result of a selective prosecution intended to make me, in the words of a Canada taxation officer, "the poster girl for the de-tax movement in Canada".

www.henrymakow.com...

reply to post by TVeducated


Looks like you lost.