Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

reply to post by LowLevelMason



Nobody said it is a quest for world domination, is there something you want to tell us? I impied that you can not investigate then masons when the maosns control all the info realting to them. Its like investigating the police, you guys have no internal affairs division to correct any wrongdoing. We only can rely upon your own word (which may or may not be worthless) to prove that you are not up to no good.

I think the number of masons in power worldwide almost garuntees that there will be some sort of abuse or misuse of power. And when you misuse this power part of the misuse is covering your tracks. I know I would do it if I were in charge. Power corupts, Im no different, why are the masons?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS


I think the number of masons in power worldwide almost garuntees that there will be some sort of abuse or misuse of power.

Aye, and therein lies the rub. For if you truly believe the above statement, then I would be most interested in your view of its antithesis:

The lack of masons in power worldwide almost guarantees that there will be some sort of abuse or misuse of power

Since there are hardly any masons in positions of political power or authority I think you make a moot point.

[edit on 12/24/08 by Trinityman]

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS


I think the number of masons in power worldwide almost garuntees that there will be some sort of abuse or misuse of power.

I believe Brother Norton has actually fostered a thread in which he asks people to produce this 'worldwide' power elite. I have yet to see anyone who can offer to oblige him and his request.

And when you misuse this power part of the misuse is covering your tracks. I know I would do it if I were in charge. Power corupts, Im no different, why are the masons?

This theory entails that there are those in power (please see above) able to surreptitiously cover the alleged misdeads you fantasize about.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


How can I tell you who in power is a mason when they do not openly confess that they are members? I feel like you masons are taunting the rest of us by repeatedly asking for us to provide proof off what you are covering up.

Why should anyone who commits misdeads reveal their secret society membership and open themselves up to further scorn by making their vicitms or prosecutors aware of their affiliation? You ask for the hidden to be revealed by those it is being hidden from......

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Once again, how can we determine is those in power are actually freemasons when this information is not readily available? There are no published lists unless the person in question wishes to reveal his membership.....hidden information can remain hidden as long as you want it to.......................

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


How is it possible to produce a list of members when the membership doesn't always actively proclaim their membership? You can ask for this list but when you are suprresing the information or are reluctant to reveal it how can we discover it?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


How can we provide proof if membership lists are not realesed, particularly for those masons who have th emost influence or power. Why would they want their names revealed and how do we reveal that which does not want to be revealed?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


What are you talking about? It has been stated many times on this forum that a list of members of the Lodge can be found by simply going to the Lodge and asking for it. You can even find these lists on regular Masonic Websites. You can also call the Grand Lodge of the state u are interested in.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


i dont think someone with the name AugustusMasonicus is gonna convince me that there is no masons...... you clearly are a fan of them


disinfo much?

reply to post by killartofu


Uh... there are Masons. he is a Mason. So is LowLevelMason, MasonicLight, TrinityMan, and a few other members of the site. That's not what we are debating here.
The question regards wether or not there is a conspiracy and if you can prove it.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

How can we provide proof if membership lists are not realesed, particularly for those masons who have th emost influence or power. Why would they want their names revealed and how do we reveal that which does not want to be revealed?

Every single mason who has been in any ANY position of power is well publicized. Its a good PR move for the fraternity. So yes, you could prove it - were it true. But when you look at the lists, it becomes clear that those "powerful masons" are mostly dead, and the few remaining hold no positions above congressman or senator, or their equivalent.

Originally posted by killartofu
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

i dont think someone with the name AugustusMasonicus is gonna convince me that there is no masons

I am not here to convince you of anything, let alone that there are no Masons. My impetus in creating this thread was to challenge you, or anyone else who believes that there is an over-arching Masonic conspiracy to substantiate this belief with provable facts as opposed to the typical unfounded opinions.

...... you clearly are a fan of them

I am more then fan, I am a card-carrying member.

disinfo much?

I hope this is not the best rebuttal you can concoct.

reply to post by On_The_Level


This is not true. The lodge close to my house doesnt have a website and there is definetly no list of its members. You cant say that all masons are listed, they arent, even the state I live in doesnt list members at all, theres no list on the website. This is the things that make me think that there is a conspiracy, when we know the truth and someone else says otherwise.

reply to post by On_The_Level


I called my local masonic lodge and they WOULD NOT give me a list of the members saying that each member had to okay this information being released. So now what do I do?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I can prove a Masonic Conspiracy with their writings and particularly the writings of the only Southern General to have a statue in Washington D.C.. His name is Albert Pike and he is considered the father of American Masonism and who wrote the Masonic Bible "Morals and Dogma.

It is in his book Morals and Dogma that we find the proof of the conspiracy and particularly here:

“Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it...The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason.”

Morals and Dogma Circa 1871

Nuff Said!!

[edit on 1/6/2009 by theindependentjournal]

reply to post by capozelli


He is referring to the leadership (officers) and famous members. Lodges WIDELY publicize any member they have that has any amount of celebrity - in politics or anything else. Getting a list of famous masons is extremely easy to do. The lists already exists, in fact, lodges publicize them without asking.

The fact that a private organization does not give you list of ALL its members shouldn't surprise you. Ask for the same list of the Boy Scouts, and they will also refuse you. Its called privacy. If thats a conspiracy, then every group in the world is involved in a conspiracy.


[edit on 6-1-2009 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I can prove a Masonic Conspiracy with their writings and particularly the writings of the only Southern General to have a statue in Washington D.C.. His name is Albert Pike and he is considered the father of American Masonism and who wrote the Masonic Bible "Morals and Dogma.

Wrong. You have not proven a conspiracy at all - you have proven that you easily fall prey to anti-mason websites and haven't bothered to do any research about it.

Morals and Dogma is certainly not a "Masonic Bible" - its a book written by one person that anti-masons love to quote from because it provides them with the fodder they desire. Outside of the southern United States, 99% of masons have never even heard of it and certainly never read it. Albert Pike is certainly not the "father of American masonism" - quite the opposite. Freemasonry was in the United States long, long before he was around.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
It is in his book Morals and Dogma that we find the proof of the conspiracy and particularly here:

“Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it...The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason.”

Morals and Dogma Circa 1871

Nuff Said!!

Indeed - enough said - this doesn't prove anything at all. What you have is a out of context quote from 1 mason. Thousands of masons have published books. None of them speak for freemasonry. In the preface to Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike explicitly states that his words are his own and that he does not speak for the fraternity.

Innumerable masons have published books after Pike that explicitly disagree with him and they have held the same officer positions he did. But of course you don't quote those...because they don't fit with what you want to believe.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


Well he didnt say officers he said members. And how can i know what he means by other then what he writes? He also seemed pretty insisiting that you can get this info as do you, well guess what, they didnt tell me who the officers were either and like i said before, they have NO website to list this. So how do you propose that people can research this?

I think he just tried to make it sound like you can get this info anytime you want but you really cant because no one wants to give it out. If this is the case then just say that instead of making it sound like you are being helpful.

Originally posted by capozelli
I think he just tried to make it sound like you can get this info anytime you want but you really cant because no one wants to give it out. If this is the case then just say that instead of making it sound like you are being helpful.

Some lodges have websites and some don't - this is as likely to be because of incapability rather than secrecy. Most Grand Lodges however now have a website and you may find information there about that lodge close to you. If you want some help with this u2u me.

In England membership lists are printed in Yearbooks - however in the UK there is a problem with freemasons being discriminated against so you may find some perfectly understandable difficulties in getting an up-to-date copy if you are not a member.

Personally I find it very hard to fathom why there is such an interest in the personal information of private individuals in private organizations. It seems a bit fascist to me that people acting legally should be spied upon in this way. The only justification I have ever come across for this intrusive behavior is a specious perception of wrong-doing, created by mischievous individuals and fueled by media hyperbole and a frustrating aspect of human nature to perpetually think ill of each other.

Sad really.