Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

reply to post by Capozzelli

To preserve, unsullied, the reputation of the Fraternity ought to be your constant care. It, therefore, becomes your province to caution the inexperienced against a breach of fidelity; to recommend to your inferiors in rank or office, obedience and submission; to your equals, courtesy and affability; to your superiors, kindness and condescension.

Emphasis mine.

Taken in context, you are supposed treat others not involved in Masonry in a manner respective of their position.

reply to post by RuneSpider


As I said earlier, I think there is a bit missing from that Charge. This is quoted from my ritual book and has a different phraseology as well as punctuation from the ritual linked:

"To preserve unsullied the reputation of the Fraternity must be your constant care; and, therefore it becomes your province to caution the inexperienced against a breach of fidelity. To your inferiors in rank or office you are to recommend obedience and submission; to your equals, courtesy and affability; to superiors, kindness and condescension."

To reassert, it deals with assisting the initiates in maintaining their oaths and admonishing them to adhere to the advice of the lodge's Master Masons until they too, reach that degree.












[edit on 22-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You made your post while I was typing mine, I skipped over it by mistake.
I understand your reasoning, and I'll agree with it.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Not a problem. I Hope I was able to clarify this point as I do not think that it has any negative or sinister connotations. To the contrary, it gives the initiate the framework to receive and eventually bestow the same advice and counsel he was imparted with during the onset of his Masonic journey.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
For the record Josh, this line does appear in the ritual we employ in my jurisdiction although the one linked is much shorter.

Curious. There's nothing quite paralleling that in the Texas MM charge...

reply to post by JoshNorton


I believe New Jersey may be the one of the few, if not the only, jurisidiction to continue to utilize this ritual. It does have some rather archaic phrases and verses in it but it also seems to have some newer ritual added to it as well.

I would be curious to know the history and origins of this particular variety of the Masonic riutal as it may give myself and others a better understanding of its implications and usage.

reply to post by Capozzelli


I would just like to add to whats already been said that I believe the brethren would agree that there are indeed ranks, just three of them:

Entered Apprentice
Fellowcraft
Master Mason

Of course, since everyone who stays with the fraternity and memorizes parts of it gets through to Master Mason in 3 months, its not like there are that many people of inferior ranking at any time. So even if that ritual is no longer being used, it still doesn't indicate there are any real ranks of hierarchy as we often see being discussed.

We often say on here that there are no ranks or levels in freemasonry beyond the third degree, which is true. That doesn't mean there are no ranks, technically, there are two others - the first and second degree. And the only superior is the WM, as its been stated, although I personally defer to any of the officers (they have a hard job) when it comes to masonic matters.



[edit on 22-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Oh, I can PROVE a masonic conspiracy alright

but I'm not prepared to die for it simply in order to prove it to people I don't know and will never meet in a forum

after all, enough people have died over it and been imprisoned on false charges and had their homes firebombed and had to change their names and move interstate and hide already

reply to post by Dock6


Ok, well I hope you don't mind if I consider you a troll until you are able to provide some kind of evidence of the conspiracy you claim.

Originally posted by Dock6
Oh, I can PROVE a masonic conspiracy alright

Then do so, this thread has been continuing for quite some time and no one has yet to prove a conspiracy.

but I'm not prepared to die for it simply in order to prove it to people I don't know and will never meet in a forum

Who exactly is going to kill you?

after all, enough people have died over it and been imprisoned on false charges and had their homes firebombed and had to change their names and move interstate and hide already

Since it has been so many I am sure that it will be relatively simple for you to provide some examples.



[edit on 23-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

How do you expect us to prove a conspiracy when you masons control everything? Everyone knows that many leaders/politicians/judges/decision makers are masons. You can keep telling us that your all about chairty and kindness but this is just a cover and only is used to hide the fact that you are manipulating from behind the scenes.

Your position is unfair. You are on the inside and ask us to prove that you know nothing about conspiracy when you know EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

How do you expect us to prove a conspiracy when you masons control everything? Everyone knows that many leaders/politicians/judges/decision makers are masons. You can keep telling us that your all about chairty and kindness but this is just a cover and only is used to hide the fact that you are manipulating from behind the scenes.

Your position is unfair. You are on the inside and ask us to prove that you know nothing about conspiracy when you know EVERYTHING!

Intriguing. So now no one can prove anything not because there is no evidence, but because masons control everything.

Unfortunately this way of thinking won't work, because there are numerous examples throughout history of bad masons being found out and thrown in jail, kicked out, etc. If masons really controlled everything and were evil, these things wouldn't happen.

Sorry, looks like you'll have to provide evidence after all.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


You are right, there is no evidence because you suppress it. Give me examples of high level masons being expelled from the order because of their actions. You know what, there are none. You can never prove it.

I bet there are plenty of times when ranking masons acted wrongly and nothing was done to them. When you hold the reins you dictate the policy.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


This is an example of what the late and venerable Robert Anton Wilson termed a "strange loop" in logic. No matter what evidence is offered to disprove the charge of a conspiracy, that evidence will be twisted to show how large, pervasive and powerful the conspiracy must be.

"When JFK died they cut out his heart and hid it in the Smithsonian."

"No they didn't. The medical reports say nothing of the sort."

"The doctors were in on it..."

"The Smithsonian has no such collection."

"Because it is hidden..."

Etc. etc. etc.

It is impossible to deal with a strange loop in disproving a conspiracy, I suspect, because you are dealing as much with a religious belief as a set of propositions and conclusions.

Just a guess guys, because it does not exist?

reply to post by LowLevelMason


This is exactly true. You control the evidence and no one can access it. When you deny us the chance to examine your actions then how can we prove anything? Can you show us any high ranking masons that have been expelled from your group? I bet you cant because you cover up for them or say that they are part of a non-recognized branch. Youre just being apologists or covering up the truth. Either way its the same.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


Exactly, no one can prove anything because you suppress the evidence in yopur possesion. If we cant view it how can we determine whats really going on? Who should we beleive, the people who say nothing is going on but you cant see behind the scenes, or the people who question it?

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by LowLevelMason

 

Exactly, no one can prove anything because you suppress the evidence in yopur possesion. If we cant view it how can we determine whats really going on? Who should we beleive, the people who say nothing is going on but you cant see behind the scenes, or the people who question it?

Sorry but that doesn't hold up to any level of scrutiny. It is physically and logistically impossible to conceal completely a quest for world domination by over 5 million people who have been attempting to do so (apparently we're pretty bad at it since it hasn't happened yet) for coming close to 300 years. Such a massive conspiracy would leavr hordes of evidence behind, since every time a conspiracy grows in size the number of opportunities for evidence due to mistakes increases exponentially.

Essentially, you are making yourself believe what you already want to believe. You should do the research - there is plenty of evidence that you are wrong. You want a look behind the scenes? Great! The ritual has been exposed for about 300 years, go find it on google and read it. The minutes of most lodges are stored at a university and available to the public. Grand lodges are not for profit so their books are open to the public for anyone to examine. Go forth and investigate. You will find nothing to confirm what you want to believe.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by LowLevelMason]

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Modern speculative Masonry is typically considered to have arisen after the Dark Ages and is one of the main contributors to the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment.

9 brothers are a tight group.

9 million is just another bureaucracy .

Originally posted by Symbiote
9 brothers are a tight group.

9 million is just another bureaucracy .

I do not quite understand this repsonse to my statement that you have quoted. Can you expand further on what you were trying to convey?