Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

Originally posted by JoshNorton
For years if you'd asked me I probably would have told you that I was agnostic. More recently I decided that Deist was probably the best description for how I feel and what I believe.... that there IS something bigger than us, but that whatever it is does not have a hands-on involvement with us, our lives, our planet, etc.

Ironically I felt the same way for the majority of my life and struggled with reconciling this with my Roman Catholic upbringing and the dogma which it entailed. Discovering Deism and the philosophy which it entails was a rather refreshing and unburdening experience.

Ok, first off i am a mason. there is no effing conspiracy with the masons. The masons is simply a way of social networking and a way of self-improving your life. All of you paranoid mofos should keep listening to your bullcrap infowars.com stuff. There is no magical powers or secret plan to take over the world. So I think this subject bulletin should be taken down. Or actually, the whole board itself that talks about Masonry. Try worrying about other things such as paying your bills or worrying about your own life. Seriously. If people really think the Masons are a threat, try joining. All you have to do is ask.

Well, after reading this thread, I thought that I could give a little simple explanation of what a Mason does believe.

On the first of all, yes, you can consider Masonry a Religion, when you talk about devotion and belief (not faith).

Not the Institutional Religion you see nowadays, as Catholicism, and so on.

There is God, however, not a white bearded man on the clouds watching over you, like Catholicism says, but God as Nature itself.

Like if God was Order itself. The Law of Nature itself. The perfect equilibrium of Nature is God.

Yes, many Presidents, Lawyers and so on, etc, have been Masons, and normally, most Masons are High-Middle class. But this is for some reason.

Not for World domination, but because Freemasonry is an Exoterical society, and not Esoteric.

So, Masons try to change and shape society by the following of their Ideology (which isn't negative at all).

For example, in my country, many important and notable Institutions are not only controlled by Masons, but they were founded by themselves.

So, Masons play an important role on society, and their intentions are good (or supposed to).

Problems like the P2 lodge are fault of the lodge itself and not of the whole freemasonry.

Man isn't perfect. We all can do mistakes.

So, basicly, Masons do not work on World domination. Rather work on the World itself.

reply to post by lazy1981

With a Mitre Square carved into half of Birch Island island in Nova Scotia visible on Google Earth, msjor Masonic conspiracies ARE proven and general conspiracies of ignorance about what parallel orders from other countries have been up to in the previous centuries.
1.Freemason Massachusetts colonial governor(s) involved in illicit trade built the Oak Island money pit and left the Masonic symbols on that Island and neighbouring Birch Island. Dated stone inscriptions from the time Governor Joseph Dudley was there along with the Masonic symbols with sacred geometry pointing to Francis Bacon, his cousin. Who else but the British and who else but the colonial governors?
2.The Masonic Ripper conspiracy has been proven, or at least has been given new life, by the discovery that the last victim had a secret child with Freemason Arthur Sullivan, a child who's existance was covered up along with victim Mary Jane Kelly's identity.
3.My union symbol is a caliper and square. We conspire against management! Ha ha!

To answer the title of this thread, I feel that it is very difficult to prove a Masonic conspiracy because there are so many different levels of masonry.

First of all, freemasonry is a fraternity. Fraternities will always have esoteric (hidden) type - knowledge that is only for members. So, no mason is obligated to tell us any of their secrets. And why would they anyway? That wouldn't be considered being a good brother.

Secondly, masonry is composed of different degrees (levels) of initation. Yes, you are initiated into masonry, but as freemasons know, they also have to be initiated into the corresponding degrees that follow.

So, even if there was a mason willing to talk about his fraternitiy's secrets, it's a good bet that his knowledge would be very different than those at another degree.

As masons go along in their path, sometimes the knowledge given at a higher degree will conflict with the knowledge first imparted at a lower degree. That's why masons have their lodges with masons of the same degree.

Now, if you want to see how masonry connects with the New World Order, it would make sense that you would most likely have to talk with someone of the highest degree available.

And, sorry, but that's not gonna happen on a messageboard.

Full answer here: books.google.com... VZM-5Q&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

reply to post by Privy_Princess


Masonry has three real degrees.
Everything else from there on is pretty much decoration.
And, it's pretty much all built on the same principals learned as a initiate, so it's not likely that something you learn later will conflict with what you were originally taught, unless you would like to provide a example?

Originally posted by Privy_Princess
To answer the title of this thread, I feel that it is very difficult to prove a Masonic conspiracy because there are so many different levels of masonry.

There are only three 'levels' of Masonry. Perhaps you meant appendant bodies such as Scottish and York Rite?

First of all, freemasonry is a fraternity. Fraternities will always have esoteric (hidden) type - knowledge that is only for members. So, no mason is obligated to tell us any of their secrets. And why would they anyway? That wouldn't be considered being a good brother.

There is no need for us to divulge the esoteric aspects of Masonry as these are not secret and can be found in numerous forms of media for public consumption and contemplation.

Secondly, masonry is composed of different degrees (levels) of initation. Yes, you are initiated into masonry, but as freemasons know, they also have to be initiated into the corresponding degrees that follow.

There are only three degrees and these are typically progressed through fairly quickly by the candidates. The usual time is three months but there are dispensations now made that allow all three degrees to be conveyed in one day. Therefore there is not much that an Entered Apprentice does not know that a Master Masons does know.

It has also been my observance that many candidates know the ritual better then some longer standing Masons since they are required to memorize a portion of it to prove their proficiency.

As masons go along in their path, sometimes the knowledge given at a higher degree will conflict with the knowledge first imparted at a lower degree. That's why masons have their lodges with masons of the same degree.

Can you cite specific examples of this? Also, if Masons only attend lodge with Masons of the same degree then how do Master Masons and say, Fellowcrafts, attend lodge together to perfrom the ritual?

Now, if you want to see how masonry connects with the New World Order, it would make sense that you would most likely have to talk with someone of the highest degree available.

What is the 'highest degree available' and how does Masonry tie into any supposed New World Order?

And, sorry, but that's not gonna happen on a messageboard.

Actually, since we are here speaking with you, it has.

[edit on 13-10-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by realstreetrat


Do you plan on offering any further commentary on that book? There is no way we can discern what it is you are trying to reference by linking that without any specific opinion on its contents.

The masons always say that there are no levels that they are all the same level. Can anyone tell me what the ritual says "To your inferiors in rank or office you are to recommend obidience and submission, to your equals curteousy and affability and to your superiors kindness and condescension". If there are no ranks or levels why does it say this? I'm having a hard time understanding why there are no levels when it tells you to be obedient and submissive and when it says you do have a superior.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Capozzelli]

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Capozzelli]

Originally posted by Capozzelli
The masons always say that there are no levels that they are all the same level. Can anyone tell me what the ritual says "To your inferiors in rank or office you are to recommend obidience and submission, to your equals curteousy and affability and to your superiors kindness and condescension". If there are no ranks or levels why does it say this? I'm having a hard time understanding why there are no levels when it tells you to be obedient and submissive and when it says you do have a superior.

Can you cite where you found that quote? I'm not familiar with it and could use additional context. Thanks.

Originally posted by Capozzelli
The masons always say that there are no levels that they are all the same level. Can anyone tell me what the ritual says "To your inferiors in rank or office you are to recommend obidience and submission, to your equals curteousy and affability and to your superiors kindness and condescension". If there are no ranks or levels why does it say this? I'm having a hard time understanding why there are no levels when it tells you to be obedient and submissive and when it says you do have a superior.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Capozzelli]

[edit on 22-10-2008 by Capozzelli]

This is not in any ritual in Freemasonry that I have ever read.

This appears to be from the book:

The General Ahiman Rezon and Freemason's Guide
By Daniel Edgar Sickles

Link

In which the author states it is "an insightful peek behind the veil of 19th Century Pomp and Circumstance"

That ritual was published in 1868 and is not in any modern ritual that I am aware of.

I found a similar passage in ritual, but it says to show kindness to your superiors in rank or office.

All master masons are equal. We are all brothers. While we have lodge officers, etc. we only answer to the master of the lodge and God.

I think this is a Red Herring.

Originally posted by emsed1
I found a similar passage in ritual, but it says to show kindness to your superiors in rank or office.

All master masons are equal. We are all brothers. While we have lodge officers, etc. we only answer to the master of the lodge and God.

I think this is a Red Herring.

Well stated Brother.

reply to post by Capozzelli

"To your inferiors in rank or office you are to recommend obidience and submission, to your equals curteousy and affability and to your superiors kindness and condescension"

Not sure where you found that, but it seems to refer to people you work or serve with, not folks associated with Masonry.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Josh, I found it here. source

reply to post by emsed1


When you say a red herring what do you mean? That it isn't about masons? It is the master mason charge so isn't that about masons?

reply to post by MOFreemason


You just joined so how can you know all of the ritual, this is the same thing masoniclight did to me earlier when I asked about something else(you can read back in this thread) so before you tell me it isn't maybe you can read more masonic ritual insteaad of saying I'm wrong.

reply to post by RuneSpider


No, it is the master mason charge and that is only for master masons and it says clearly says to be obdient to your superiors. It doesn't say be obedient your boss at work or your mother and father.

reply to post by JoshNorton


For the record Josh, this line does appear in the ritual we employ in my jurisdiction although the one linked is much shorter. It is infact from the Master Mason's charge and I always infered that it meant the brief interlude when a Brother was progressing through the degrees he should look to his second or third degree Bretheren for moral and spiritual guidance.

There was a more pronounced waiting period between degrees in times past and it would not be uncommon for a candidate to wait much more then the nowadays typical three months to be raised to the degree of Master Mason. Or also to sit in lodge as a Entered Apprentice while the rest of the lodge may all be Master Masons.

I feel that it also refers, when speaking of superiors, to the lodge officers, particularly the Worshipful Master who indeed is the 'superior' in the lodge, albeit for one year only.