reply to post by Tiloke

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Well, I happen to be the vicitm of violent abuse at the hands of the police. So no "what ifs" here. It's already happened to me.



I never said that it did. Ever heard of something called the Constitution? Unreasonable search and seizure? Maybe we should just do away with warrants entirely, and let the police do whatever they want, whenever they want. In fact, maybe we should let them install a camera in your bedroom to make sure you only # missionary.



Actually, I was referring to the facial ID system with that one. But as far as the license plates go, why should I have to answer to the police just because I happen to be driving my brother's car and his license got suspended? Which actually happened to me, when his license got suspended through no fault of his own, but a mixup between the DMV and his insurance company. I spent 45 minutes trying to explain to the police that I was not my brother, and missed the ball drop for New Year's that year.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

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Why should I relenquish my rights and miss New Year's because you choose to live in a high crime area?

This is what I was looking for.


www.school-for-champions.com...

reply to post by jackinthebox

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What rights have you relinquished?

I don't live in a high crime area, these idiots drive cars and can prey on any neighborhood.

What does New Year's Eve have to do with where I live? Did I miss something?

I read your crime story, by the way. I had something like that happen to me and when I was confronted by the police, I was nice and cooperative and was given a ticket for criminal damage.

When I went to court, I courteously explained to the city attorney the circumstances of the incident and had the charges dropped and paid restitution for the window I broke accidentally, which was more than fair.

From what I've read on this site, you have a poor attitude about the police that you can't hide, especially when you're drunk, which exacerbates whatever problems you might have with the law.

My experience has taught me not to argue with cops, even if it means going to jail. I know that when I get my day in court, I will fair much better if I've been compliant and in a couple of cases, I've had the charges dropped.

Cops do make mistakes and sometimes you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but in the interest of the greater good, it is better to let justice take its course.

By the way, despite several unpleasant encounters with the police, I've only been convicted of public drunkenness, which I willingly pleaded guilty to. Even in that case, I was polite and courteous with the arresting officers and clean, well-dressed, sober, courteous and remorseful when I went to court. I think I got a twenty dollar fine with fifteen dollars court costs.



[edit on 2008/5/20 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by Tiloke

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if this and what if that. Lets not go by "what ifs" and lets go by "whats happened".

maybe you should take a look at this site...it's all about those pesky mistakes that law enforcement never make.

www.cato.org...

your faith in government is misplaced IMO...

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

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What rights do I have?



Well I don't seem to have any of the problems you seem to be having, and I live in NY. Maybe they just like you.



Yeah, my post above. I spent New Year's explaining to the police that I was not my brother, though I was driving his van. His license was still suspended in the computer, due to some mixup bewteen the insurance company and DMV, and through no fault of his own. Thank god the registration was still valid.



Good for you. I was nice and cooperative too, until they started threatening me and shoving me.



Well, I don't know about your case so I can't say that it was more than fair, but fair enough. And when I finally had my say in court, all of the original charges against me were dropped. And?



Yes, I do have a poor attitude toward the police at this point. It's been hard-won. But that has nothing to do with drinking. If you are referring to my "incident" where I happened to be drinking that night, then you are obviously a poor judge of right and wrong.

If you think I deserved to be kicked in the head and hit with the stun gun ten times, while I was face down, all because I told the police I wasn't scared of being arrested, then there's not much I can tell you except that I will laugh if I ever hear that it happens to you.



I didn't argue with them. They threatened to arrest me, so I told them to go ahead. I had come outside expecting to be arrested. There was no argument there. They chose to harass me some more instead, and increase their threats. At which point I just shut up. Until they got so pissed of that I got my ass whooped for exercising my right to remain silent.







Okay, and?


[edit on 5/20/0808 by jackinthebox]

Okay and I've been in a lot situations where I had to deal with the police. Several of those were not my fault and I have had some treat me disrespectfully and even arrest me without sufficient evidence, but I've never let it sour my attitude toward the police.

So, my point is that my experience is not much different than those who hate the police, but I don't and I have a simple technique to help me survive those kinds encounters.

Besides that, I respect the law and I do my best to stay out of trouble and strive to be a model citizen, even if I'm sometimes woefully deficient.

[edit on 2008/5/20 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

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There's a taser with your name on it just begging to change your opinion.

Ever have a cop punch your girlfriend in the stomach trying to get you to swing on him?

Ever see a cop murder a man in cold blood, because he had a beer in his hand?

Ever been beaten on by a group of cops like you're being jumped into the Crips?

Ever have a cop rough you up and steal all your money and jewelry?

Shall I go on? Because all this and more has happened to me, and now, finally, after all these years, I'm ready to say # THE POLICE!!!



Agreed.


[edit on 5/20/0808 by jackinthebox]

Here's some real life for you.
I used to hang out at a friend's house all the time. We were only 18/19 years old, so cheap housing was a must. One night I leave his place, and get followed by an officer. As I reached the end of the block, I see another one sitting around the corner, and he turns on his lights and pulls in front of me. The officer behind me turned on his lights, and when I pull over, he walks up to my car and asks for me to step out of the car, so I do. Then he asks to search it, and I let him. The entire time they are asking me where the drugs are, did I leave them at "Dude's place". I was basically harrassed. I quit going to my friend's house for a couple months until he found out why I had police always following me. Turns out that a guy on the other side of the block was a dealer, and the cops thought I was walking through the back yard. My license was logged, and I was followed by 3 different officers. Always the same three.

Now, this is the hypothetical: What if they had that tech back then? I would be getting pulled over on a constant basis by EVERY officer who has this device installed on his car, just because they decided that I must be going over to that dealer's house.

I can ask the same what if about my parents getting a call from an officer claiming that I was hanging out at a known drug dealer's house when I was 16. The dealer apparently lived in the UPSTAIRS apartment, but my friend lived in the downstairs apartment. His parents were military... hardly the drug using type. With this tech, the same thing would have happenned, most likeley, and I would be logged into the system and followed.

Now, on the basis of "If you haven't done anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about", I call that as a total copout. 2 places I hung out I would've been logged... it doesn't take but maybe thos etwo dealers being related in business somehow and I would've been implemented into some drug ring I didn't even have a clue about. Evidence can pile up unwittingly when you are logged like that. Heck, I'm willing to bet I would've been logged ALOT, especially when most of my friends figured out that trailers were better than apartments for many reasons (don't have to listen to your neighbor's midnight rompfest directly through the ceiling, for starters). About that same time was when meth was hitting hard, and all the sudden you find out that there were 3 or 4 "kitchens" in your neighborhood.

Basically what I'm saying is there is real life 'guilty by association', or rather 'guilty by parking spot'. I've been a victim of license logging, and I've been harrassed. Just imagine not being able to drive 10 minutes without getting pulled over, and every time you do get pulled over, you get your car searched. After about 5 times, you get really sick of it.

BTW, if you try to claim they are harrassing you, word gets around, and you just get new officers pulling you over thinking that you are trying to desperatly get them off your tail. Friend tried that one. Total BS. Just makes them think you are trying to hide something.

"If you haven't done anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about" should NOT be used as an argument, imho. I know firsthand what can happen without the technology. The main concern is that they basically are tracking you, every where you take your vehicle. As we've seen here on ATS, you can compile information into any argument you want. Statistics can be twisted to have whatever meaning the person wants them to have...

an example of this is the commercial that said "Two out of every three drivers involved in a fatal accident tested positive for marijuana" (paraphrasing, but accurate as I can remember)... what they tried to get across was that 2 out of 3 drivers involved in a fatal accided were stoned... BS! Just means that there are a high number of people that had traces of marijuana in their systems. Marijuana stays in your system for anywhere between 3-10 days, and reports of even up to a month and a half in ultra heavy chronic users. Twisting the statistics, or basically twisting the evidence.

All they gotta do is run a program that analyzes and compiles the logged info, and they can build a quick case on you even if you are innocent. It isn't like they don't have the software model available (Ahem... IP tracking... keyword tracking, and the software to compile that data and look for patterns).

Other than what I listed above, I'm all about making sure the "idiots" aren't allowed to drive illegally, or whatnot. I actually have 2 DUI's, one of which I hit a pole at 40mph because I slid down the bridge and couldn't make my turn. It impairs your judgment, and I can attest to that first hand. What if I HAD hit someone else? I've ran that through my mind more times that I can count, or care to. I've almost got hit and ran off the road by drunks. My GF got screwed because the girl that totaled her car gave an insurance card, but hadn't payed in 2 months, then ditched town and ditched court. We'd LOVE to see them catch her.

I'm basically saying that there is already abuse of power, and data logging can lead to total misinterpretation and opens up even more abuse of power. I keep pleading innocent, but they have me logged at X, Y, and Z places, therfore I must be guilty. And for anyone who's gonna say "well, you should be more cautions of areas you hang around" I'll say it now... are you absolutely sure none of YOUR neighbors are cooking meth in their garage? The cops may know about it, and you don't. What happens when your buddy starts getting followed just because they log his license plate at the cook's house because he parks across the street? Ya gonna pat the officer on the back and say "Good job! That's a fine piece of technology there!"

BTW, if you kill someone while under the influence, they get you average 5 years for manslaughter. This is america, people demand justice. The law looks at it as "You knowingly got behid the wheel while intoxicated, which is illegal. You are guilty by risking the lives of others". They quit screwing around with that hokey let-em go crap a LONG time ago. Wherever you got that idea is beyond me.

Haha typical liberal fear-mongering. There are no "camps" (I assume you are referencing Nazi concentration camps) in The United States of America, and there never will be. "Big brother" is a threat to you or paying attention to you if you are engaged in criminal activities. The sensationalist notion that American citizens will be rounded up and sent to camps is laughable. i'll tell you what, I'll bet you 10 Dollars I won't see you in "the camps". If we see eachother in "the camps", I'll pay you your 10 dollars, or cigarettes if that works. I understand cigarettes are currency in prison. On the topic of the plate reading equipment, I believe it will be a valuable asset in the war on illegal immigration, one car or truck at a time.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by ppskylight]

I certainly understand your outrage, regarding this new gadget mobile. These new licence plate readers are located on both civilian along with a couple of police cars.
I'm by no means a person, who thinks that goverments are our best friends, but I don't believe in anaki either. Well my friends, then there's this necessary evil, we have to address.
Some of the "fattest" cat's in any city or town, is almost without a doubt insurance companies. Car insurance, house insurance, medical & deltal plans etc.

Over 1.000.000 cars are stolen per year in the USA alone. That is costing us all buco dineros, so the result is that insurance is skyrocketing. Besides, it's not just cars, but stolen merchandise along with other things, add it all up, and what do you get.? A part in paying off over several $ billions to the gov. These losses will not only be written off annually by the IRS & the bank, but also during taxes by trying to establish, if anybody's home is on solid ground, or close to bankrupcy.

So in other words, i'm not to scared regarding their new toy. The goverment don't think so. Instead i hope that the tax-payers finally gets something out of this.

reply to post by jackinthebox

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Damn... I live in a town of about 50,000... shows the difference in population assumption, whereas police in larger populations think they can get away with more because word doesn't get around like it does here.

I'm not proclaiming that I think all cops are bad, btw. I've met, and know, some REALLY cool officers. I also know that there are a couple on force HERE that are total robots, and have the attitude that if someone calls the cops on you, then you are guilty of something, and they do push you, especially when they don't find what they think they'll find. One particular officer walks into my house and just blurts out "So, where's the dope?", which we all looked at him like he was stupid because of. He then proceeded to enlighten us with his reasoning that "There's alot of smoke in the air... where's the dope?". Well, 5 people had cigarettes lit, and only 1 window open. He obviously didn't know what it even smelled like, but he's all gung ho about it. He has the attitude (as do probably about 1/3 to half of them) that he is above everyone, like someone made him king of all civilians. Basically barbaric dark-ages thinking and reasoning.

Like I said, not all are bad, but some truely are d***'s. To all the rest that do their job remembering that we are ALL humans, thanks! Keep up the good work.

Another ffear I'll address is that these devices help enforce the law, which is good... supposedly they are there for our good. The problem is that when you have absolute means for enforcement, it can easily evolve to a tool. This is where the tracking thing gets really scary. This is where big brother starts taking hold. The watchful eye of the law is NOT big brother. "Big Brother" includes a hand FORCING you to act and be a certain way. Once they have all of it in place, you can't wear certain clothes, or act a certain way. You have to act and dress like everyone else for fear of being falsely accused of something you're not. You have to give up individuality and start being like what "Big Brother" thinks you should be. That is where the fear lies for the innocent.

Aeon Flux, Minority Report, 1984... these are good examples of what could happen when government uses these deevices.

EDIT: Things like what ws posted in This Thread are exactly the reason some of us are leary, or downright scared, of this technology. "They" (whoever "They" are... global elite, big brother) don't want a chance of a revolution. This technology takes away from our ability to fight back at something corrupt. You speak out agains the Bush clan, for instance, they mark you for it. What IF we go to police state? Anyone 'marked' can quickly and quietly disposed of in whatever manner. They do have camps, it's just that they are all filled up with half the people that ACTUALLY deserve it... and half that don't deserve it (i.e. marijuana users, or one guy I met who was accused of tax evasion because he got hit by an audit, and didn't knwo that writing a memo on the back of a reciept was 'altering' it. He was in the middle of a move to U.W. in Laramie, and they assumed he was trying to run, even though he had mail forwarded to his new residence, and he sent a letter to the IRS indicating he had moved).

[edit on 21-5-2008 by Earthscum]

This is an old example, but this is the sort of drama we have around here. Officer Coffey was actually being investigated for the homicide of Sharon McZeal when his body was found. Witnesses had seen her sreaming and running from him down by the river.

www.sic.state.ny.us...

reply to post by cutbothways

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It's posts like this that make me sign in once a month.

Why in the world is technology that catches people ILLEGALLY DRIVING or people that have WARRANTS out on them bad?

You're telling me that John "I kill people" Smith with a warrant out on him shouldn't be caught by this because it's an effective way of finding out who is/isn't obeying the LAW?

There is nothing wrong/worrying about this. If you don't have a license... don't drive. If you have a warrant out on you... well you're a criminal. What's so hard about those things? If you've done nothing wrong this doesn't affect you.

This has even been going on for YEARS. It doesn't take a magical camera to look at a license plate and input those numbers/letters into a computer screen to find out if they guy is wanted/un-licensed/unregistered.

You're comparing this (criminals + cars) to the federal government watching you have sex... how are those comparable? That's a ridiculous statement/comparison and makes no sense. You seem to have a fear that everyone is watching you. How are you able to go out to places with security cameras... I mean "strategically placed government cameras" everywhere? With your "big brother" talk I'm pretty sure you think that of simple security cameras.

Judging by your post and other posts you are hugely paranoid about the government so I guess I can contribute your delusions of a technology that is being used for good actually being used to monitor everybody in the U.S. to that fact that you a) hate the government & b) are hugely paranoid.

See you guys in a month.

reply to post by ppskylight

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No camps huh?

www.prisonplanet.com...

reply to post by Topspike

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Punk joyriders are the only people stupid enough to leave the tag on a stolen car. If I've got a nice mark for the chop shop, one of the first things I'm gonna do is slap an old tag on it. Besides, a real pro will have the car flipped by the time it's even reported stolen.

reply to post by Earthscum

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Actually, I'm upstate from the city. The combined population of the town/city county seat is about 75k. Cops literally get away with murder around here.

The one example I mentioned above was a cop that we had made formal complaints on for years. When he finally shot the guy in the face for having a beer can in his hand, the cop was forced to retire with full pay and benefits. One friend of mine went to the academy with the turd and couldn't stand him.

I don't mind the cameras, like it's stated here they track and catch problem vehicles and having been hit by uninsured drivers twice in the past I'm all for it. In Blackburn especially a new grid of wireless camera's (long pole wireless panel antennas and cameras) have been going up around the place on the roads every half a mile or so, no doubt they'll be linking into the DVLA computers. For people who believe the cameras will be abused, I'm sure you probably right, they will although I’m sure if they pissed people off enough they would be "taken out"