Also, why is it only a woman's "right to choose"? Are the opinions of the father so null and void that it warrants killing that child?

A very good friend of my got his girlfriend pregnant in high school. She decided to tell him about it and then go and get an abortion behind his back. He would have taken that child that she didn't want. He was fully ready to accept responsibility, and commit to loving and raising that child. How is that fair? It was his child too. Was it not?

not sure how this ended up as a abortion debate.... im siding with andre18 on this one... of course a woman has the right to end her pregnancy?? i dont see how anyone can say otherwise?..... i dont agree with abortion as a means of birth control (multiple abortions) but there are very valid emotional reasons why a woman aborts.... and im sorry but a rape victim has every right to not want to continue a pregnancy created through rape???? the woman did not choose to have unprotected sex or choose to potentially become pregnant...
If that happened to me, i would not continue with the pregnancy under any circumstances...

Before I sound all preachy I modified this rule early in my own life to only have sex with someone I am committed to, essentially, that if I sleep with a girl then in the eyes of God we are married. My basis for this was using Adam and Eve, they didn't have a judge or a government to enact their marriage just God, also, if you were stranded on an island somewhere would you wait to reach civilization before you married someone else that was also stranded on an island?

This being said their are many practical benefits to waiting until marriage, like the STD and AIDS things, another thing is couples would last alot longer if they gave each other to each other in front of an assembly of people, in front of God, and the church. This act alone might help the couple through hard times where taking the easy route wouldn't have this additional leverage.

We accept the bible and it's teachings mostly on faith, sure there is much evidence to back up the bible and history, but without faith it is impossible to please God, if you have Gods Holy Spirit you will seek to please him, is not are you truely his?

Now that I am going through divorce and having these additional 10 years to become closer to God I don't know if I could be with someone else without being married to them in the eyes of the law but I guess we will see. Christianity is not about obeying the letter of the law, but in having and keeping a clear conscious towards God and in trusting solely in the life giving power of Jesus and his kingdom in his Holy Spirit.

Even in the eyes of the law when a women accepts your last name and there is cohabitation then you are common law married.

Let me emphasis, immorality is the way of death, to be carnally minded is death, read Galatians, no immoral person with enter the kingdom of God. Jesus taught about fornication being sex in any way before marriage so it is not good to have sex without being married, however, there is a good case to be had if you are committed to each other then isn't this a marriage? I believe anyone you sleep with you have been united with, that two become one but it is obviously best to merry.

I found I was able to live in a committed relationship with someone and live with them and still had a clear conscious before God without paperwork saying I was married, I still felt saved, however, I still didn't feel right about going to church, nor would I want to go to a church that would allow a couple to live together without being married, I mean shouldn't the church have high standards?

Don't let the evil one deceive you, there is a God and a Devil, choose you this day whom you will serve!

Would you buy a pair of shoes without trying them on? I wouldn't. I think the sexual aspect of a relationship is an important facet of the whole.

Dictating that there will be no sex before marriage is a means of controlling people, however, I do believe people should marry if they're going to have children. I see it as a matter of commitment to each other and to the rearing of any children produced and the maintenance of stability within the family unit.

I agree with Cosmicstorm. However I do not support abortion, but if it were in a case of rape, I definitely would! Which woman in her right mind is going to walk around and raise a baby for 9 months that she did not want, yet alone was forced to have by some low life rapist?!? Some of you need to wake up.
In any other case, I believe abortion isn't right.

Back to the main topic, Sex is just seen as "fun" by many, others will say its a "spiritual & emotional bond" between two people. For many men, virginity is not really that much of an issue.. especially these days. It is not a "tool" to reduce population! If you read many different writings from different religions, you will see many forbid sex before marriage. Islam, Judaism, Baha'i Faith, Christianity, its not just the Catholic churches. However it all comes down to what YOU believe is right or wrong. No body can and should judge you except God.

Originally posted by nahsik I reckon if woman can spend the time to do their make-up, were these uncomfortable shoes and tight revealing clothes, putting something like this in should not bring about any complaints.

what do you mean by that?

and i agree that at what point a woman has an abortion makes alot of difference, i think late abortions are un-necessary if not health related... ive heard some people claim the morning after pill is also abortion

Originally posted by Sleuth
Would you buy a pair of shoes without trying them on? I wouldn't. I think the sexual aspect of a relationship is an important facet of the whole.

Dictating that there will be no sex before marriage is a means of controlling people, however, I do believe people should marry if they're going to have children. I see it as a matter of commitment to each other and to the rearing of any children produced and the maintenance of stability within the family unit.

i completely agree with this.....this is exactly how it should be

Originally posted by Sleuth
Dictating that there will be no sex before marriage is a means of controlling people,.

That's exactly it, people now days don't even have control over there own lives and emotions. Society is deteriorating due to the media and culture.

Yes, I so agree with you. There are so many celebrities that are spiraling out of control and it really is a scary thing that these people are having widespread attention to their crazy life. The media, movies, tv seems to glamorize this type of lifestyle. I believe in freedom of speech but there should be some rules about when and where certain things are appropriate. This uncensored stuff has gone too far. Why do people think that to be open-minded they have to have NO boundaries. Extremism in either direction...liberal or conservative can be bad.

Originally posted by JesterMan

Tell that to a pregnant mother that sees her baby (fetus) for the first time via ultrasound. I bet you that any woman that has ever experienced that would love to disagree with you.

According to this answer, since I love any other part of my body, it's a baby? Listen to yourself, JesterMan. A fetus is a clump of cells with a potential to become an independent life form apart from feeding off it's mother, like a clump of cells do.
Also, you feel a woman should keep the rapists baby? What the hell kind of reasoning is that? Why should she? It doesn't matter if it's not the babies fault if it was conceived through rape. Until it's born, it is part of the mother body, and she can do with it what she will. A woman who conceived through rape should not have to live through another trauma because you feel she should 'stay in her place as a sperm dumpster', which is what one is implying when you are against abortions. It makes the claim that a woman has no choice, and should just bear whatever is thrown at her. Are you going to arrest the mother if she has a miscarriage, stating she was an accomplice to murder? The concept of 'punishing' a woman with a pregnancy because she was flirtatious is a very horrible, immoral, and disgusting was of 'punishment'.

And to those who would allow abortion only from rape, how is that still not an abortion? You can't say it's okay to, in an pro-lifers words 'kill' a 'rape baby', and not okay to 'kill' any other 'baby'. It would be the same thing.

Furthermore, what if the raped woman was a virgin? Was it her fault also that she was raped, and she should be condemned to hell because she wasn't a virgin when (if) she got married?

It's not the father’s choice because the fetus is not part of his body. End of that story. It's just considerate to tell the father donor of DNA what the woman is going to do with it.

@brickhouse32
You are sounding very preachy, all I really read in that was "dogma, dogma, dogma, bigoted personal opinion, persecute ____ group, dogma reason, doctrine from unreliable book, end with praise to non-existent deity who loves and yet hates everyone" No offence to you personally, just the bible is nothing to base any moral standards on.

And as an 18yr old male, I am still a virgin, and not losing that title so easily. This is a personal choice, not a religious one.

There's a lot of people quoting phrases from the bible on here and using the word 'God' as though they are some how holier than thou, somehow more righteous and intelligent and act like they know something that we don't.

Also some people quoting things about the Devil and other such loony talk.

Please remember that it's the bible that is full of stories about rape, the killings of the first born etc etc.

Please stop it with the 'fear of God' rubbish and wake up to the 21st century and realise most people do not necessarily believe in your religious dictates and actually have a mind of their own.

As an atheist, I believe everybody has a right to do what they want with whoever they want as long as nobody (the baby included) gets hurt.

Yes, I've had sex before marriage, with a number of girls and ladies, some of the occasionas have been amazing, some not so amazing, but it was a consentual choice and didn't detract any pleasure from the ocassions by thinking about bearded men in robes or red skinned beasties with pitch forks.

I do humbly appreciate those people who can 'hold on' until they get married, that most take a lot of will power, but it has absolutely nothing to do with 'God' or the 'Devil' as they don't exist, which is just simply dark age talk.

But you've got to appreciate a lot of people don't want to get married, myself included. So I'm just going to keep on having a nice time with my girlfriend, show her my love and have a very happy life, without the oppression of marriage and the guilt that comes from being religious.

Peace

[edit on 20-5-2008 by mr-lizard]