No Sex Before Marriage

Originally posted by C0bzz
reply to post by JesterMan

 

Fetuses aren't babies. God don't they teach biology anymore?

Tell that to a pregnant mother that sees her baby (fetus) for the first time via ultrasound. I bet you that any woman that has ever experienced that would love to disagree with you.

Also, why is it only a woman's "right to choose"? Are the opinions of the father so null and void that it warrants killing that child?

A very good friend of my got his girlfriend pregnant in high school. She decided to tell him about it and then go and get an abortion behind his back. He would have taken that child that she didn't want. He was fully ready to accept responsibility, and commit to loving and raising that child. How is that fair? It was his child too. Was it not?

not sure how this ended up as a abortion debate.... im siding with andre18 on this one... of course a woman has the right to end her pregnancy?? i dont see how anyone can say otherwise?..... i dont agree with abortion as a means of birth control (multiple abortions) but there are very valid emotional reasons why a woman aborts.... and im sorry but a rape victim has every right to not want to continue a pregnancy created through rape???? the woman did not choose to have unprotected sex or choose to potentially become pregnant...
If that happened to me, i would not continue with the pregnancy under any circumstances...

reply to post by JesterMan


Its a womans right to choose because its her body?????

...and ultimately the father could walk away from the child, leaving the woman alone to raise it.... which happens more often than not from what ive seen...

reply to post by cosmicstorm


Thats not always the case, not all men would do this. I certainly would not. Despite what most people think, not everyone in this world is so bad. Lots of men want babies even if their female counterpart doesn't. And ultimately the woman could put the child up for adoption. Lots of couples that cant have children would love and care for any unwanted child.

I do believe in the right to choose. You have a right to choose to keep your legs shut don't you?

[edit on 20-5-2008 by JesterMan]

reply to post by JesterMan


Im aware there are many wonderful fathers out there, but there are also many single mothers dealing with fathers that did not live up to their duty.... men can walk away, women cant, so if a woman does not want a child at that point.... the fathers feelings need to be put aside in order to make the right choice...

yes i agree.... women should keep their legs shut or fully protect themselves if they dont want a child.... and men should make sure they bag it up!

reply to post by JesterMan


Yes, becasue she then has an emotional bond with the fetus, in her eyes it is now her baby - and that is good.

If I choose not to bond, if I choose to see the cells which are growing inside of me as a fetus, then that is my choice.

Abortion, sex before marriage, sexual orientation....it's no one's business but mine.

Back to topic: I don't care what the Bible or any other "holy" book says about it...it's my perogative.

Before I sound all preachy I modified this rule early in my own life to only have sex with someone I am committed to, essentially, that if I sleep with a girl then in the eyes of God we are married. My basis for this was using Adam and Eve, they didn't have a judge or a government to enact their marriage just God, also, if you were stranded on an island somewhere would you wait to reach civilization before you married someone else that was also stranded on an island?

This being said their are many practical benefits to waiting until marriage, like the STD and AIDS things, another thing is couples would last alot longer if they gave each other to each other in front of an assembly of people, in front of God, and the church. This act alone might help the couple through hard times where taking the easy route wouldn't have this additional leverage.

We accept the bible and it's teachings mostly on faith, sure there is much evidence to back up the bible and history, but without faith it is impossible to please God, if you have Gods Holy Spirit you will seek to please him, is not are you truely his?

Now that I am going through divorce and having these additional 10 years to become closer to God I don't know if I could be with someone else without being married to them in the eyes of the law but I guess we will see. Christianity is not about obeying the letter of the law, but in having and keeping a clear conscious towards God and in trusting solely in the life giving power of Jesus and his kingdom in his Holy Spirit.

Even in the eyes of the law when a women accepts your last name and there is cohabitation then you are common law married.

Let me emphasis, immorality is the way of death, to be carnally minded is death, read Galatians, no immoral person with enter the kingdom of God. Jesus taught about fornication being sex in any way before marriage so it is not good to have sex without being married, however, there is a good case to be had if you are committed to each other then isn't this a marriage? I believe anyone you sleep with you have been united with, that two become one but it is obviously best to merry.

I found I was able to live in a committed relationship with someone and live with them and still had a clear conscious before God without paperwork saying I was married, I still felt saved, however, I still didn't feel right about going to church, nor would I want to go to a church that would allow a couple to live together without being married, I mean shouldn't the church have high standards?

Don't let the evil one deceive you, there is a God and a Devil, choose you this day whom you will serve!

hmm i thought this topic was about sex before marriage. Well for me I do regret it now that I have lost my virginity. I believe that once you lose this you do lose your innocence.

Also what I believe about abortion is the period of time that you do take to get it done. But please all in all it should not take that long to decide to take the morning after pill within the 72hours. Go to the doctors!!

Also they have come up with a new anti rape condom. I reckon if woman can spend the time to do their make-up, were these uncomfortable shoes and tight revealing clothes, putting something like this in should not bring about any complaints.
rapex site



[edit on 20-5-2008 by nahsik]

Would you buy a pair of shoes without trying them on? I wouldn't. I think the sexual aspect of a relationship is an important facet of the whole.

Dictating that there will be no sex before marriage is a means of controlling people, however, I do believe people should marry if they're going to have children. I see it as a matter of commitment to each other and to the rearing of any children produced and the maintenance of stability within the family unit.

I agree with Cosmicstorm. However I do not support abortion, but if it were in a case of rape, I definitely would! Which woman in her right mind is going to walk around and raise a baby for 9 months that she did not want, yet alone was forced to have by some low life rapist?!? Some of you need to wake up.
In any other case, I believe abortion isn't right.

Back to the main topic, Sex is just seen as "fun" by many, others will say its a "spiritual & emotional bond" between two people. For many men, virginity is not really that much of an issue.. especially these days. It is not a "tool" to reduce population! If you read many different writings from different religions, you will see many forbid sex before marriage. Islam, Judaism, Baha'i Faith, Christianity, its not just the Catholic churches. However it all comes down to what YOU believe is right or wrong. No body can and should judge you except God.

Originally posted by nahsik I reckon if woman can spend the time to do their make-up, were these uncomfortable shoes and tight revealing clothes, putting something like this in should not bring about any complaints.

what do you mean by that?

and i agree that at what point a woman has an abortion makes alot of difference, i think late abortions are un-necessary if not health related... ive heard some people claim the morning after pill is also abortion

Originally posted by Sleuth
Would you buy a pair of shoes without trying them on? I wouldn't. I think the sexual aspect of a relationship is an important facet of the whole.

Dictating that there will be no sex before marriage is a means of controlling people, however, I do believe people should marry if they're going to have children. I see it as a matter of commitment to each other and to the rearing of any children produced and the maintenance of stability within the family unit.

i completely agree with this.....this is exactly how it should be

Originally posted by Sleuth
Dictating that there will be no sex before marriage is a means of controlling people,.

That's exactly it, people now days don't even have control over there own lives and emotions. Society is deteriorating due to the media and culture.

Great reply by Elusive Goddess. I agree. Why doesn´t anyone think of the emotional and mental aspects? Yeah its bad enough that sex before marriage can cause unwanted pregnancy and disease, but do you ever think of what it does to especilly a teens mind? Teens are often breaking up, and there for having alot of partners possibly...what does this do to their self worth? And won't it maybe diminish their ability to have a meaningfully relationship with real love? People are getting immune to sex, to the point it won't even be a big deal...it takes the specialness out of it. And like with porn, I believe casual sex can make sex lose its mystery and become less fulfilling. Its hard enough for adults to get divorces and breakups etc and sexual baggage, what about teens??? They should not be dealing with such crap. They should be in school or doing fun creative things with friends. They should be having more innocent fun with the opposite sex and being truly exciteted to be just kissing or holding hands...there is a mystery and beauty to it that is now pretty much lost. I think adults should be an example to young people, that's why we need to get rid of this "free love" thing. Its bad for the future generations.





reply to post by ElusiveGoddess

Originally posted by rubyeyes
Great reply by Elusive Goddess. I agree. Why doesn´t anyone think of the emotional and mental aspects? Yeah its bad enough that sex before marriage can cause unwanted pregnancy and disease, but do you ever think of what it does to especilly a teens mind? Teens are often breaking up, and there for having alot of partners possibly...what does this do to their self worth? And won't it maybe diminish their ability to have a meaningfully relationship with real love? People are getting immune to sex, to the point it won't even be a big deal...it takes the specialness out of it. And like with porn, I believe casual sex can make sex lose its mystery and become less fulfilling. Its hard enough for adults to get divorces and breakups etc and sexual baggage, what about teens??? They should not be dealing with such crap. They should be in school or doing fun creative things with friends. They should be having more innocent fun with the opposite sex and being truly exciteted to be just kissing or holding hands...there is a mystery and beauty to it that is now pretty much lost. I think adults should be an example to young people, that's why we need to get rid of this "free love" thing. Its bad for the future generations.





reply to post by ElusiveGoddess

 

I totally agree with you on this. Could not say it better myself. Love is losing its meaning these days and people are being mis-informed not by love but by lust of one another. I'm lucky that I've found my soul mate.

Adults an even young adults like me need to take responsibility for their own actions. This goes out to the celebrities in the media who have to be the social role-models themselves. Sure I was naive when I was young but I feel like I was never given any rules or grounding or told why this or that were wrong.

We dont want our kids turning into a Corey Delaney. Don't want our kids looking up to role models like him or women like Paris Hilton.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by nahsik]

Yes, I so agree with you. There are so many celebrities that are spiraling out of control and it really is a scary thing that these people are having widespread attention to their crazy life. The media, movies, tv seems to glamorize this type of lifestyle. I believe in freedom of speech but there should be some rules about when and where certain things are appropriate. This uncensored stuff has gone too far. Why do people think that to be open-minded they have to have NO boundaries. Extremism in either direction...liberal or conservative can be bad.

Originally posted by JesterMan

Tell that to a pregnant mother that sees her baby (fetus) for the first time via ultrasound. I bet you that any woman that has ever experienced that would love to disagree with you.

According to this answer, since I love any other part of my body, it's a baby? Listen to yourself, JesterMan. A fetus is a clump of cells with a potential to become an independent life form apart from feeding off it's mother, like a clump of cells do.
Also, you feel a woman should keep the rapists baby? What the hell kind of reasoning is that? Why should she? It doesn't matter if it's not the babies fault if it was conceived through rape. Until it's born, it is part of the mother body, and she can do with it what she will. A woman who conceived through rape should not have to live through another trauma because you feel she should 'stay in her place as a sperm dumpster', which is what one is implying when you are against abortions. It makes the claim that a woman has no choice, and should just bear whatever is thrown at her. Are you going to arrest the mother if she has a miscarriage, stating she was an accomplice to murder? The concept of 'punishing' a woman with a pregnancy because she was flirtatious is a very horrible, immoral, and disgusting was of 'punishment'.

And to those who would allow abortion only from rape, how is that still not an abortion? You can't say it's okay to, in an pro-lifers words 'kill' a 'rape baby', and not okay to 'kill' any other 'baby'. It would be the same thing.

Furthermore, what if the raped woman was a virgin? Was it her fault also that she was raped, and she should be condemned to hell because she wasn't a virgin when (if) she got married?

It's not the father’s choice because the fetus is not part of his body. End of that story. It's just considerate to tell the father donor of DNA what the woman is going to do with it.

@brickhouse32
You are sounding very preachy, all I really read in that was "dogma, dogma, dogma, bigoted personal opinion, persecute ____ group, dogma reason, doctrine from unreliable book, end with praise to non-existent deity who loves and yet hates everyone" No offence to you personally, just the bible is nothing to base any moral standards on.

And as an 18yr old male, I am still a virgin, and not losing that title so easily. This is a personal choice, not a religious one.

reply to post by USMC-oorah


Your post emphasizes some great points. I too am a Christian, but I am a lot like GreenEyedLeo in some respects. That is; some things I used to believe I now have a different opinion of. While ideally, I would like to see young people wait until marriage, I realize that this is not realistic. Human beings are sexual creatures and, as such, will always find a way to relieve this, either through intercourse, oral sex, masturbation, etc.

The question and the point that USMC brings up is the emotional readiness regarding sex. Our culture is oversexed, in my opinion. They promote an ideal of sexuality that is not realistic and is squarely aimed at today's youth. Unfortunately, many young people are not at a point where they fully understand the emotional investement that intimacy brings. It's not like having a crush on someone. You literally give a piece of yourself to that person, a piece that you can never get back....ever.

I have a 16 year old daughter. While I hope she waits until marriage, I understand that this most likely will not happen as she gets older. The best I can hope for is that she waits until she is old enough to understand the investement she will make regarding sex. And, even as prepared as she can be, it will still be a life-changing experience. I don't want her to feel depressed about what she did. This would tell me that she wasn't emotionally ready. I also don't want her to be flippant about it either. Sex is something that should not be taken lightly. It is much more than just physical pleasure. It is a bond, a connection with someone that can greatly affect your emotional well-being in both a positive and negative way.

The last thing that I want for her is to think that sex is a recreational activity. But, today's society places great emphasis on the casualness of sex. There should be an emotional level of maturity reached before engaging in sex with another person. I can't define an age on this because each person is different, but I would like to think that this would be around 20 years of age (give or take a couple of years).

And I totally agree that if children are knowingly to be a result of sex, then those two individuals should be ready and willing to marry.

[edit on 20-5-2008 by Freenrgy2]

There's a lot of people quoting phrases from the bible on here and using the word 'God' as though they are some how holier than thou, somehow more righteous and intelligent and act like they know something that we don't.

Also some people quoting things about the Devil and other such loony talk.

Please remember that it's the bible that is full of stories about rape, the killings of the first born etc etc.

Please stop it with the 'fear of God' rubbish and wake up to the 21st century and realise most people do not necessarily believe in your religious dictates and actually have a mind of their own.

As an atheist, I believe everybody has a right to do what they want with whoever they want as long as nobody (the baby included) gets hurt.

Yes, I've had sex before marriage, with a number of girls and ladies, some of the occasionas have been amazing, some not so amazing, but it was a consentual choice and didn't detract any pleasure from the ocassions by thinking about bearded men in robes or red skinned beasties with pitch forks.

I do humbly appreciate those people who can 'hold on' until they get married, that most take a lot of will power, but it has absolutely nothing to do with 'God' or the 'Devil' as they don't exist, which is just simply dark age talk.

But you've got to appreciate a lot of people don't want to get married, myself included. So I'm just going to keep on having a nice time with my girlfriend, show her my love and have a very happy life, without the oppression of marriage and the guilt that comes from being religious.

Peace

[edit on 20-5-2008 by mr-lizard]