No Sex Before Marriage

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Self control and having multiple partners is a total contradiction you cant have both at once, I believe its 'one or none', with no exceptions.

My reference to porn stars has been taken out of context because I constantly hear people saying respect woman which I and Im sure most people do. In contrast we have porn stars and strip clubs that say the total opposite and give the appearance that woman are sex toys.

Thats the contradiction Im trying to explain, to me personally every brothel and sex club should be shut down, there is nothing good that comes of them.

I do congratulate you for not smoking, occasionally drinking, and not doing drugs. I've been lucky enough to reject these all together but I did come close to smoking but am glad I never did.

You have been with multiple partners and you did enjoy it but that sounds to me like lust talking not love. There is a massive difference between the two and when I experienced love not lust, it was like time stopped itself, like our very souls connected. It was the first tantric experience I ever had and one I wont ever turn from.

To me, sex without love is meaningless, only lust comes in that form. It sounds to me like your afraid of commitment because if you weren't you wouldn't be with multiple partners.



[edit on 23-5-2008 by Drakiir]




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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I didnt wait to have sex, and while i dont regret anything i have done in my life, I can very much see the value of having that part of oneself whole to give to the right person.

I am staunchly pro choice, it is not up to the law to dictate birth control and I dont want girls going back to coathangers in back alleys and mexico to end pregnancies, But I also know that babies are a blessing, someone would love to be a parent to that child if given the opportunity.

As an adult who was adopted at the age of 5 days old, and a mother who would love nothing more than to have another child but can not do so without a bazillion dollars worth of uncovered fertility costs or adoption, it truly saddens me that adoption is not more often brought to the table as an option if someone becomes pregnant and is not ready to care for the child for whatever reason.

But as a mother I would not want my child to be a parent at the age of 14 or 16 or 18...hell it was hard enough for me at 21, and I very much understand the issue of carrying that child for 9 months and then not being able to give it up for adoption.

The timing of the abortion is also a huge issue, if you dont want the baby you will know within the first three months, there is no reason outside of clear and obvious danger to the life of the mother to perform late term non medical abortions.

Abortion is not a form of birth control with no further ramifications on ones life, it is not the removal of a polyp or an unwanted mole, it is the ending of the potential of a life which has emotional and mental ramifications for the women making that choice.

So while I absolutely think that early term abortions should be available to women with proper counseling provided both before during and after, I Wish that adoption was more readily available and supported.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by Drakiir
Self control and having multiple partners is a total contradiction you cant have both at once, I believe its 'one or none', with no exceptions.


No it's not a contradiction, if i were trying to control it and failing then i'd be contradicting myself. I don't want to control it because i don't think it needs controlling, therefore i'm not lacking self control.


Originally posted by Drakiir
My reference to porn stars has been taken out of context because I constantly hear people saying respect woman which I and Im sure most people do. In contrast we have porn stars and strip clubs that say the total opposite and give the appearance that woman are sex toys.

Thats the contradiction Im trying to explain, to me personally every brothel and sex club should be shut down, there is nothing good that comes of them.


Porn stars are merely doing a job, i'm not a fan of porn myself but i understand some people need it. Lets remember these aren't modern things, there have always been brothels, nude drawings, belly dancers etc. It doens't show a disrespect for women, they are doing a job like any other person. Brothels and strip clubs just truly aren't something i'm interested in but i support their existence.

Also unlike you i can see some benefits to them, some rapists for example have raped women because of constant rejection, so a legalised brothel can surely be a good thing? Not only that but aggression is reduced in sexually active people quite often and so again brothels seem like a good solution. I made an entire thread devoted to legalising brothels a whle back so check out some of the arguements if you want



Originally posted by Drakiir
I do congratulate you for not smoking, occasionally drinking, and not doing drugs. I've been lucky enough to reject these all together but I did come close to smoking but am glad I never did.


No need to congratulate me. My point was these are things i think should be controlled and so i control them, therefore i'm not lacking self control.


Originally posted by Drakiir
You have been with multiple partners and you did enjoy it but that sounds to me like lust talking not love. There is a massive difference between the two and when I experienced love not lust, it was like time stopped itself, like our very souls connected. It was the first tantric experience I ever had and one I wont ever turn from.


Did i even argue it's lust not love? Of course it's not love but that doesn't mean i don't have respect for the woman i'm with at the time! I enjoy it, it's like anything anyone enjoys, they do it whenever they can. I must also say i've had some amazing experiences that i would never ever want to trade


Originally posted by Drakiir
To me, sex without love is meaningless, only lust comes in that form. It sounds to me like your afraid of commitment because if you weren't you wouldn't be with multiple partners.


Please don't try to analyse me, you won't get far. I'm not scared of commitment at all, i'm 22 mate and so i think it's a little early for marriage, and i have yet to find a woman i could spend my life with. Should i just marry the first one i see? When i do find a woman i want to spend my entire life with i will be faithful, i hate cheats, always have.

However i won't be getting married, that isn't a fear of commitment it's simply because i think marriage is religious and archaic, however i may end up married for financial reasons
People who are sexually promiscuos are often painted in such a poor light, as being commitment phobic, shallow or other things and i think that's so very ignorant and low minded.

It's down to the individual, i know a few people (all famliy) who waited and seem very content, i also know someone who waited and despite being married for i think 20 years now, says she wish she hadn't waited because her first married experience was awful. Apparently full of not knowing what to do, worry, stress etc.

So i think it depends on the individual and their mindset, how they approach sex and relationships in general. Some people sleep around and are just self destructive. If you know yourself it shouldn't be this way.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


No it's not a contradiction, if i were trying to control it and failing then i'd be contradicting myself. I don't want to control it because i don't think it needs controlling, therefore i'm not lacking self control.

You don't think it needs controlling when you cant see the very fact you are with multiple woman instead of one is ok, alright if you say so.

Porn stars are merely doing a job, i'm not a fan of porn myself but i understand some people need it. Lets remember these aren't modern things, there have always been brothels, nude drawings, belly dancers etc. It doens't show a disrespect for women, they are doing a job like any other person. Brothels and strip clubs just truly aren't something i'm interested in but i support their existence.

They are promoting degradation of themselves and other women by just being in a place of that nature. Im all for admiration of the human form and am actually a designer and an illustrator but I appreciate the body for what it is not what it can give sexually.

And some people need it, so that includes you with multiple partners right?

Did i even argue it's lust not love? Of course it's not love but that doesn't mean i don't have respect for the woman i'm with at the time! I enjoy it, it's like anything anyone enjoys, they do it whenever they can. I must also say i've had some amazing experiences that i would never ever want to trade

Yes sounds exactly like a hobby doesnt it, whenever you want any time of the day, even after breakfast and one before dinner huh. I see lust is written all over you and I can judge because you are telling me the circumstances, thats what a court does.

Im 29 myself and have had 2 girlfriends in my life and I can say without doubt that it really doesn't bother me one bit. There is no need to go into details but lets just say that the girls were into the very thing you are talking about. I point blank broke up with them letting them know thats not me.

Having a girlfriend is not a necessity for me, life is more important than grabbing a girlfriend to socially fit in, which I find is the case these days. Im not applying that to you only but it is becoming more the case. I cant count how many times I have seen guys comparing their girlfriends to each others like 'showing off a trophy' its pathetic to see it and is as transparent as glass.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by Drakiir
You don't think it needs controlling when you cant see the very fact you are with multiple woman instead of one is ok, alright if you say so.


Is having multiple partners right? Well right and wrong are entirely subjective and so we'll never agree on that one, think it's perfectly natural and throughout history multiple partners was the norm, manogomy is a very new and novel concept. Whilst waiting for one man was a common thing forced upon women, men were usually encouraged to sleep around. I'm glad of the times we're in allowing both sexes freedom to do as they wish. If you choose to say that people having multiple partners is wrong then i think you're against freedom as a concept.


Originally posted by Drakiir
They are promoting degradation of themselves and other women by just being in a place of that nature. Im all for admiration of the human form and am actually a designer and an illustrator but I appreciate the body for what it is not what it can give sexually.

And some people need it, so that includes you with multiple partners right?


No it doesn't include me, i don't watch porn as i said earlier, please don't lump me in with porn stars, i don't get paid for having sex i just enjoy the act itself. It's a rather pathetic attempt at a smear when there is a world of difference.

As for needing it in the sense of the act itself, well need is different to want. If i suddenly decided to stop having sex until marriage then i could quite simply, but i enjoy it and i see absolutely no problem with the moral aspect of it. Safe sex can be a very rewarding and enjoyable thing, sex has throughout history been practiced for simple pleasure.


Originally posted by Drakiir
Yes sounds exactly like a hobby doesnt it, whenever you want any time of the day, even after breakfast and one before dinner huh. I see lust is written all over you and I can judge because you are telling me the circumstances, thats what a court does.


A hobby? I think naming it that is actually degrading to all involved and very ignorant. A hobby is stamp collecting, or sky diving, when it involves very close and intimate contact i think it's a little me than a hobby. I think you have a very strange view of the sexual experience, it can be nothing more than an emotionless act simply for the physical enjoyment on the side of both parties. That doesn't make it horrible or wrong as long as both parties understand that beforehand and aren't self destructive.


Originally posted by Drakiir
Im 29 myself and have had 2 girlfriends in my life and I can say without doubt that it really doesn't bother me one bit. There is no need to go into details but lets just say that the girls were into the very thing you are talking about. I point blank broke up with them letting them know thats not me.


Well good for you if you don't like it, however i think you were very harsh to them and you could even argue that you're rather mean and didn't care at all for their feelings. See how that works? You twisted a few of my intentions and i can do the same.


Originally posted by Drakiir
Having a girlfriend is not a necessity for me, life is more important than grabbing a girlfriend to socially fit in, which I find is the case these days. Im not applying that to you only but it is becoming more the case. I cant count how many times I have seen guys comparing their girlfriends to each others like 'showing off a trophy' its pathetic to see it and is as transparent as glass.



And again trying to make me out as awful, gota love the character attacks so lets be clear. I have never thought of a girlfriend as a necessity and i agree life is more important than grabbibg a girl to fit in socially. I don't give a flying monkey what people think of me, although i will defend myself when someone insults me of course. Please don't apply lies to me, truth is fine but i know myself better than you do. If what i have written has lead you to your conclusions then i think you've either misread or completely misinterprited. Maybe your very biased views are skewing your conclusions to what you believe people must be like if they sleep around.

Furthermore i also have seen those guys parading a girl around like she's a trophy and it sickens me, honestly i hate it. You see you keep trying to guess and imply these bad things about me and other people who have casual sex.

I accept your view of one person your whole life, good for you, i however prescribe to something else which i think fits myself better. People who have casual sex do not fit in a neat little box of being bad people as you're trying to point out.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 02:08 AM
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Honestly, you guys have your little side debates going on, which is fine but that's not what this thread is about. But since we are now talking about personal experience or the debate over who is justifying what, then let me tell you.

If Sex Before Marriage is a sin than I am guilty 1,000 times over and I am going to keep on sinning brothers and sisters, because I don't believe in marriage (under the state).

So like I said before, no need for personal attacks, thats not really what this is about.

The freedom of will discussion was more on the lines of what this thread is all about.

This Sex Before Marriage right or wrong is just non-sense, this is a conspiracy forum.

Besides if sex before marriage is in fact wrong according to scripture let's see it.

Also if that is true, just what exactly is God's definition of marriage?

[edit on 24-5-2008 by 12.21.12]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 02:08 AM
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Oops, double post.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by 12.21.12]



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Well i think what we've posted is in keeping of the thread, whilst it's abot personal experience it is about each sides view. I'm afraid as an agnostic i can't take the religous viewpoint into account as the way i should live. The bible, Koran, Tor'ah or any other book has no impact upon my life and how i live it. I am not saying they're wrong, i'm just saying i have no clue if they're the word of god or not so i can't live by them.

The law allows it and more importantly the right to choose to live in sin is surely protected under any free countries laws.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:02 AM
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Well whattever you believe or whatever you want to add is welcome. This thread wasn't really just meant for christians, virgins or anything like that. Just an open discussion about psychological warfare or sex before marriage or whatever you want to call it.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 06:51 AM
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posted on May, 24 2008 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Well whattever you believe or whatever you want to add is welcome. This thread wasn't really just meant for christians, virgins or anything like that. Just an open discussion about psychological warfare or sex before marriage or whatever you want to call it.


Psychological warfare? Can you just fill me in on what you mean by that please, Thanks


I've known a few people who've been saving themselves, it often sadly makes them socially not accepted, which is obviously wrong. However i stil maintain that sexual activity before marriage can be very beneficial. I've heard people say that havingonly one partner their whole life has made them cheat out of curiosity. Maybe if you've had experiences before you get married it can actually help reduce the desire to cheat on your partner.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Im done here so Im leaving here with a couple of messages.

I think there are no room for Purists in this world and I for one am glad to be one, and you may think my views are weird but that is your opinion.

I hope the partners you are with realise that if you have to have many girls, you cant commit to one, not just through marriage but a normal relationship. Despite the 2 girlfriends I mentioned being into other partners, I still dedicated myself to them without exception.

I am not twisting anything whatsoever and your the one who thinks multiple partners is fine, now thats twisted and Im not guilty of that. Enjoy your 'sex toys' because when the one for you comes along you either wont see it, or one girl wont be enough, either way you wont commit to anything.

I am not mean to girls despite what you think, I respect everyone of them and appreciate them for who they are, and since I believe in one girl and one only I think it is you who is inconsiderate, not me. I can commit, Im happy with one girl, I never complement them without meaning it, and I never ever be with multiple partners.

What you do in my view is blatent disprespect and dishonesty and is abhorrent since your in it for your own satisfaction, but hey thats just my oppinion.

By all and let the thread go back to topic



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by cosmicstorm
reply to post by JesterMan
 


Its a womans right to choose because its her body?????

The body inside of the woman is not her body. I totally disagree with abortion on all levels. Even at a zygote stage. It's still a human being in his/her growing period.

The thing is, the debate is really if indeed this fetus is a person or not. If you beleive it is, then the 'it's a woman's body belief' is not so easy to side with. No pro life person like myself is some evil monster wanting to take anyone's rights away. In fact we are trying to save the most basic right every innocent individual has and that is the right to his or her own life.

Sex before Marriage had good in it. You wouldn't have this crazy world with sex sex sex on their minds treating each other like animals in the bed.

And what a gift that would be to save and then give your virgin self to the one you want to spend the rest of your life with.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by Drakiir
I think there are no room for Purists in this world and I for one am glad to be one, and you may think my views are weird but that is your opinion.


I dont' think your opinions are weird, they're just not for me, each to their own i say it's a shame you can't leave me to my own without insulting me and my friends. If this is your last post then fine but i have to addrss some rather horrible points here.


Originally posted by Drakiir

I hope the partners you are with realise that if you have to have many girls, you cant commit to one, not just through marriage but a normal relationship. Despite the 2 girlfriends I mentioned being into other partners, I still dedicated myself to them without exception.


You have no basis for saying that, i have commited before, i have never cheated on a partner and when i find the girl for me then i'll spend my life with her and never cheat, i have no commitment issues but you seem to think you know the inside of my head better than i do.


Originally posted by Drakiir
I am not twisting anything whatsoever and your the one who thinks multiple partners is fine, now thats twisted and Im not guilty of that. Enjoy your 'sex toys' because when the one for you comes along you either wont see it, or one girl wont be enough, either way you wont commit to anything.


"sex toys?" That is without a doubt an utterly disgusting thng to say, you claim to respect women and then call them sex toys? Some of those women are still my friends hwo i love, care abot and respect highly. To call them such a thing is utterly disgusting.


Originally posted by Drakiir
I am not mean to girls despite what you think, I respect everyone of them and appreciate them for who they are, and since I believe in one girl and one only I think it is you who is inconsiderate, not me. I can commit, Im happy with one girl, I never complement them without meaning it, and I never ever be with multiple partners.


You are not meant o girls and yet you call the ones i know "sex toys", right ok, meaness to you must be somethign far more extreme then. I'm not inconsiderate, often the girls i'm with are only after sex themselves so it's a mutually beneficial arrangment. That is how most of the world currently works, sex before marriage is not always sordid, it is not always selfish and it is not always wrong.


Originally posted by Drakiir
What you do in my view is blatent disprespect and dishonesty and is abhorrent since your in it for your own satisfaction, but hey thats just my oppinion.

By all and let the thread go back to topic



We never left the topic, we are using personal examples to make a point (at least i'm trying to). Disrespect? Well no because the girls want what happens to happen, i've never slept with any girl when she's been drunk for example. Dishonest? Again how? My own satisfaction? I make every effort to pelase the person im with, that doesn't seem selfish to me.

Sex before marriage can be very healthy, i also noticed you skipped over my anecdote about my friend who waited and regrets it deeply, i guess she isn't that important and it doesn't make any sense huh.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:19 AM
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I don't know what the issue is: No sex before marriage simply prepares you for no sex after marriage.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by Drakiir
 


yeah well people like ImaginaryReality1984 wont get it. Hes just a product of today's culture nothing more, dont blame him blame society.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I'm not inconsiderate, often the girls i'm with are only after sex themselves so it's a mutually beneficial arrangment. That is how most of the world currently works, sex before marriage is not always sordid, it is not always selfish and it is not always wrong.


may I ask whether if you had ever preyed on the low self-esteem desperate for affection kind of girls or was it just something that happens out of mutual boredom with the world?



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by DuneKnight
 


I have never preyed on anyone and find such men disgusting. Generally i get to know a girl over weeks before we ever sleep together. Whilst i am aware there are some rather unscrupulous men and indeed women who prey on weak or vunerable people i have never done so. I have never slept with anyone who is drunk and i would appreiciate my character was not repeatedly attacked and instead address the points made.

The mud slinger never loses do they.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


I compared it psycological warfare, because as far as I have seen there is no doctrine that supports it, yet the church is a big time advocator.

I am not saying it's totally a bad thing.

The Bible also goes on to tell us a bit about morals and stuff, but where is all this stuff about marriage? Legal Marriage?

It psychologically promotes marriage, whether you see that or not it might not be as relevant now as say it was in the 1800's.

Isn't marriage a bond/ agreement, between man and wife. So the agreement should be between the man and wife, not thouroughly outlined with state regulations.



posted on May, 24 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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Furthermore, I just wanted to mention one other thing that annoys me.

Gay Rights. (Don't have anything against them, not here to bash them)

They have rights already, but they aren't special.

I really hate their cause because they don't realize how bad they make things for families with children an marriage laws that are actually their to protect children.

Now we got feminsm and gay rights and all these different movements that are manipulting the legal system and taking rights away from parents.

Kind of a selfish cause if you ask me. Damn get married if you want, but don't be asking for special rights.





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