Iran Busts CIA-Backed Terror Group

*Not necessarily tit for tat. More like in increments.

To put it bluntly, another 9/11 happens, an area gets carpet bombed. An IED? How about some night time air strikes in retaliation. We sit there and take it from everyone, and then cry because so many of our troops are killed. Just get the job done and get the hell out. That simple.

*Yes because we have so many terrorists here in the US, or over in the UK or France when thousands are killed because of terrorists

*an attack by proxy is still an attack, IMO . . . and yes, it goes both ways


*International law . . . mehh. Who gives a rats behind what other countries think. Lets worry about ourselves and let the other countries worry about themselves. Seems like we are the only ones who at least try and put on the mask of obeying the international laws anyways.
[edit on 20/5/2008 by xxpigxx]

[edit on 20/5/2008 by xxpigxx]

a land mine is not an IED - its far from `improvised` but very purpose built

To put it bluntly, another 9/11 happens, an area gets carpet bombed. An IED? How about some night time air strikes in retaliation. We sit there and take it from everyone, and then cry because so many of our troops are killed. Just get the job done and get the hell out. That simple.

you carpet bomb an area in `retaliation` you make many more willing to die to stop you - oh wait whats allready happeneing in iraq - and be careful - those you attack might have real weapons capable of reaching out and touching you.

an IED so you flatten a neighbourhood? you then get more ied`s in retaliation for that bombing and so it scales up - and what will end up being is a movement that will be born from fighting - Hezzbollah was born from exactly that principle , massive overwealming force , which hasn`t worked

Hezbollah - which around most of the world is recognised as a legitimate group of freedom fighters - its only the Israel (well duh there the enemy) the USA and 4 other countries which say they are terrorists.....


so you want an Iraqi version of Hezbollah do you? great thinking - how many thousands of US men and Women do you want to die because of your escalationist policy? you start ramping up the violance and the other side will do exactly the same - look at iraq and baghdad now to see what 5 years of Guerilla warfare has done


get the job done and get the hell out? someone should have told Bush & Co that 4 years ago once the main action was over - instead 4 years later and there is NO way out.

Originally posted by xxpigxx
*Not necessarily tit for tat. More like in increments.

To put it bluntly, another 9/11 happens, an area gets carpet bombed. An IED? How about some night time air strikes in retaliation. We sit there and take it from everyone, and then cry because so many of our troops are killed. Just get the job done and get the hell out. That simple.

Yeah, that simple. Just like when we invaded Iraq. We were supposed to be greeted with flowers, and we've been there far longer than our involvement in WW II.

McCain optimistically suggests a 2013 pullout.

And Iran isn't Iraq, by any stretch of a Rambofied imagination.

Simple to say. But the world ain't simple.

*International law . . . mehh. Who gives a rats behind what other countries think. Lets worry about ourselves and let the other countries worry about themselves. Seems like we are the only ones who at least try and put on the mask of obeying the international laws anyways.

Beneath comment.

Originally posted by wutone

you are implying that if American foreign policy did not exist, the world would be in peace and harmony.

Where did I ever imply that? Now if you said, has US foreign policy made the world less peaceful, and less harmonious? I would say yes. And the evidence is everywhere.

So if you ever decide to visit Darfur, ask yourself about U.S. foreign policy. Should the U.S. do something or not? Remember the U.S. foreign policy is THE ONLY global enemy according to you.

Are you serious? US and other nations FAILED in Darfur. That is just like saying, "Did the government fail during Katrina, because the red cross was there, and fema finally showed up. There is a certain level of adequacy that you are ignoring in my opinion.

You really do not have an argumentative leg to stand on. IMO, As always.

AAC

I think that the real question is how much are we going to accept this? Are we going to let them spin this the way that they spun the lead-up to the Iraq war? Or are the American people going to actually stand up and say we've had enough? I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

Yep, because carpet bombing the Germans turned them to terrorists. So we did it more, and more terrorists were baptized, so we bombed more . . .




You people are amazing.


You break the will of the people, and they will stop fighting. And you know what . . . you all arguing with me . . . your will has already been broken. Sad.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

Where did I ever imply that?

here

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation

USA foreign policy is the only global enemy.

Only does not mean.....

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


Are you serious? US and other nations FAILED in Darfur.

US and other nations

Didn't I just have a conversation like this with someone esle on this thread?

Look you are seriously deluding yourself if you think that the US is the only (your words) reason why the world sucks. I can agree that the US isn't helping and is screwing up a lot of things but isn't it blind to think that other governments and organizations are totally innocent?

Or maybe this is a big miscommunication on our part, but I thought "only" meant "exclusive","alone", "unique", or "singular." Maybe you can give me your definition of "only" and straighten me out.

USA should put Bush / Cheney on trial for war crimes. They lied to the american ppl about Iraq. Why is there not more debate about this? Why are people not seeing that the same scenario is now being played with Iran? Do they think the average voter is so gullable?

Some figures suggests about 700´000 iraqi's has died from the war and 25 percent !!!! of the Iraqi population has fled the country. Thousands of american soldiers has lost their lives and for what?

Iraq's neighbours aswell as some european countries, such as Sweden with liberal asylum laws, are strugging with a huge influx of refugees from this disastrous war.

I don't think the average citizen realize the magnitute of the disaster of this war that was based on pure lies!

If McCain gets elected and continues the slaughter ppl in Iraq and is also considering aggression again Iran, people has to ask themselves who the real axis of evil is.





[edit on 20-5-2008 by Shades1035]

reply to post by Harlequin


Interesting words you use. Tell me, just wondering. But have you ever lived in Iran? Or, Iraq?

reply to post by Shades1035


Actually your numbers are wrong. Your (Bush & co) are incorrect too. As for a lie to the WMD. Why are we forgetting about the mass killing (gassing) that Saddam did to the people that opposed them? Forget about that? Forget about the mass graves or the hundreds of people that came forward and talked about how their entire family was killed off by the sons of Saddam?

Oh, sorry My mistake, your right. We should have just left him where he was. Who cares about all those people he was killing on a daily schedule. Just think, we could have just left him alone and he and his sons could still be feeding 14 year old girls to their pet tigers, well after rapeing them of course.

War crimes? Please...

Originally posted by Jimmy_of_wprt
Why are we forgetting about the mass killing (gassing) that Saddam did to the people that opposed them? Forget about that? Forget about the mass graves or the hundreds of people that came forward and talked about how their entire family was killed off by the sons of Saddam?

Who put him into power? Who sold him weapons? The Chinese are killing Falun Gong and selling their body part for transplants. Why not tackle them with your high morals? Cuz they'd fight back?

What about Burma? What about Saudi Arabia? How come you get to cherry pick your monsters according to the GOP playbook? For shame.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Jimmy_of_wprt
Why are we forgetting about the mass killing (gassing) that Saddam did to the people that opposed them? Forget about that? Forget about the mass graves or the hundreds of people that came forward and talked about how their entire family was killed off by the sons of Saddam?

Who put him into power? Who sold him weapons? The Chinese are killing Falun Gong and selling their body part for transplants. Why not tackle them with your high morals? Cuz they'd fight back?

What about Burma? What about Saudi Arabia? How come you get to cherry pick your monsters according to the GOP playbook? For shame.

Actually I am not following a GOP playbook. I am following a playbook where I spent 5 years in the mid east. And let me inform you of something. If you, ever, once spent any time in that area. You my friend would have a whole new awakening to what TRUTH is. But I am willing to bet money that you never have been in these areas. You never had to worry about getting in to a taxi and think to your self "HMMmm wonder if I am going to be driven off to some unknown place and held at gun point until I have my head chopped off?"
Wonder if you have ever been in a relationship with someone that lived in Iraq all their life and not only can the inlaws tell you stories of worrying about if the "police" were going to take you away in the mid of the night and remove your hands because some higher figure decided to label you a thief.

Like I said to someone else in a point like this. Dont armchair quarterback until you have been there, and done that. Sitting in your nice comfy spot saying that the real monsters are the ones protecting you rear is a bit of un gratitude.

So hop a plane, go visit for a few years and come back and report in on how things were.

Originally posted by xxpigxx
I did . . . I am not medically able.

Yes, I realize that my family could die. That is war. Everyone will die sooner or later.

I am not afraid of death. If my family dies, I will mourn, maybe (TRY to) go Rambo on whomever caused their death, and live on or die.

War is not pretty.

Instead of dragging it out, just go balls to the walls.

I know, I am going to get the flaming of my life for my views . . . with all the peaceniks and such . . . oh well. Have fun!

You have this attitude because you are american as opposed to european. The difference being there has been no world war fought on american soil. Europe on the other hand has had millions of dead civilians across all countries, cities bombed to hell etc etc.

When you have suffered war on your soil your attitude will be different. It is the need to totally avoid anymore wars on European soil that drives a lot of European decisions.

It's a shame but millions of US citizens will have to die in their own homes within devastated cities before you realise how bad war is and to be avoided at all costs. Until then Rambo lives on!

Oh and please don't give me the "we know look at 9/11". That was minor compared to war. That incident was just the same as the many many IRA bombings that the UK suffered in the 70's thanks to money from the US supporting the so called irish freedom fighters.

Originally posted by Jimmy_of_wprt Dont armchair quarterback until you have been there, and done that.

Like somebody once sang "You don't need a weather man To know which way the wind blows."

It's all about picking which monsters you feel like supporting. Saddam went into Kuwait with the explicit approval of the US State Department. He was a pal of the US. He didn't just start being an ogre all of a sudden.

Further, I don't see anybody going into North Korea because Kim is starving his population...he's got nukes, you see. And like I said about China...forced abortions, harvesting organs from religious contrarians. Where's the outrage? Wanna rescue the Saudi women from their medieval servitude? Oh...those Arabs are on our side, so they get a free pass. Taking out the Burmese generals because they won't let relief in to their people. Sorry, you can't cherry pick. Either you have a moral stance, or it's all just hot air.

You talk about armchair quarterbacks? How about the chickenhawks sending your kids off to die in the desert? This kind of crap makes me want to puke. If you're going to let your national integrity be sold off to fill your gas tank, it's your choice. Just have the cojones to admit it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Jimmy_of_wprt Dont armchair quarterback until you have been there, and done that.

Like somebody once sang "You don't need a weather man To know which way the wind blows."

It's all about picking which monsters you feel like supporting. Saddam went into Kuwait with the explicit approval of the US State Department. He was a pal of the US. He didn't just start being an ogre all of a sudden.

Further, I don't see anybody going into North Korea because Kim is starving his population...he's got nukes, you see. And like I said about China...forced abortions, harvesting organs from religious contrarians. Where's the outrage? Wanna rescue the Saudi women from their medieval servitude? Oh...those Arabs are on our side, so they get a free pass. Taking out the Burmese generals because they won't let relief in to their people. Sorry, you can't cherry pick. Either you have a moral stance, or it's all just hot air.

You talk about armchair quarterbacks? How about the chickenhawks sending your kids off to die in the desert? This kind of crap makes me want to puke. If you're going to let your national integrity be sold off to fill your gas tank, it's your choice. Just have the cojones to admit it.

Oh believe you me. I think all of those nuts on the list should be removed. As for him going in to Kuwait with the explicit approval of the US State Department. Thats incorrect. It was the other way around. They warned him if he continues we will take action. And we did.
Now for the comment about sending out kids off to die for the sake of our gas tanks. Let me explain something to you. When I joined the military, I did it because I wanted too. I wanted to defend this country. I was sent on over 150 missions, wanna know what half of them were?
Bringing food to people in countries that the govts were not feeding. Bringing in medical supplies and doctors as well as protecting those doctors so they could help sick people. People that were hacked up by Islamic military that ran through parts of Africa like wildfire.
You see here is the problem. Yes you dont have to be a weatherman to tell what way the wind blows, but you do have to be a weather man to understand what the blowing wind means. What it is bringing, and whats inside it all.
The United States is the worlds baby sitter. And the people like me that were out there risking our lives so people like you can sit there and bash us, and squak and tell us how bad we are. Yet, thats all you do. Is complain and belly ache. But because we keep those people like the leader of Iran and the people that follow him from coming in and taking over and turning you in to a whipping post. So here it is, very simple, if you hate everything that America stands for, well it is the land of the free. Pack up your things. Buy your self a ticket, and fly off to the country that you think is so much better. And let us know how that turns out for you.
What I would really like to see happen is this; I would love for us to pull all of our people out of the Mid east. Close our borders. Lock em down. And let everything play out as it will. When these leaders of these countries call us for help because things are getting out of hand for them, we dont answer the phone. Pull our companies out of the countries and bring them home too. Stop exporting and stop importing.
Oh and that oil you hate so much, keep this in mind. Fact is that the ENTIRE world runs on oil. So because of it you have electricy, clean water, food in your stores. Without it, you would not be able to do anything. Oh thats unless you have a better idea on how to run the ENTIRE world.

Originally posted by Jimmy_of_wprt Oh believe you me. I think all of those nuts on the list should be removed. As for him going in to Kuwait with the explicit approval of the US State Department. Thats incorrect. It was the other way around. They warned him if he continues we will take action. And we did.

Apparently that issue is now subject to debate. That doesn't mean initial reports were untrue...it does mean they were an embarassment.

The United States is the worlds baby sitter.

That is a self-appointed role, and times change...the invasion of Iraq ain't the Berlin Airlift.

And the people like me that were out there risking our lives so people like you can sit there and bash us, and squak and tell us how bad we are.

Did you notice me bashing the troops? Or was I frustrated that they are out there in the first place...same as ours in Afghanistan. And I support the party that wants to bring them home alive

So here it is, very simple, if you hate everything that America stands for, well it is the land of the free...

'Cept for that pesky habeus corpus thing and the further erosion of liberty by the current administration. Make no mistake, I really like both America and it's people. Are you saying that if I don't like the current government, I hate America? Is that part of your "Land of the Free"?

...Pack up your things. Buy your self a ticket, and fly off to the country that you think is so much better. And let us know how that turns out for you.

Go to Wikipedia. Type Canuck. Figure it out.

Oh and that oil you hate so much, keep this in mind. Fact is that the ENTIRE world runs on oil. So because of it you have electricy, clean water, food in your stores. Without it, you would not be able to do anything. Oh thats unless you have a better idea on how to run the ENTIRE world.

Well, for starters, I would stop supressing alternative energy sources, and start putting our national industries on a green programme instead of letting foreign companies beat us to the punch, like they have in the auto industry.

My point remains...as long as you are an Uncle Sam approved bad guy, that's apparently oky-dokey. If you're going to justify Iraq because Saddam was a nogoodnik, then why aren't you lobbying to take out those monstrous Chinese demons while you're at it. Oh yah...they can fight back. Who knew the Iraqis would too. There ya go...Halliburton wins either way, right?

Just don't p*ss in my face and tell me it's raining out.




[edit on 21-5-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by Jimmy_of_wprt

The United States is the worlds baby sitter. And the people like me that were out there risking our lives so people like you can sit there and bash us, and squak and tell us how bad we are. Yet, thats all you do. Is complain and belly ache. But because we keep those people like the leader of Iran and the people that follow him from coming in and taking over and turning you in to a whipping post. So here it is, very simple, if you hate everything that America stands for, well it is the land of the free. Pack up your things. Buy your self a ticket, and fly off to the country that you think is so much better. And let us know how that turns out for you.

i'm pretty sure the majority of people who oppose this war don't oppose the soldiers at all. i mean, i do... but that's my own agenda.

and really man, you think we hate america? we hate freedom? you are a very ignorant person if your gonna blatantly twist words like that.

maybe if the government lowered gas prices i could afford that ticket to Amsterdam.... Helllllooooooo girls from the netherlands!

There are three or four reasons one might question the Iranian report:
1.) The Iranians might have made up the story out of whole cloth.

2.) The arrested terrorists may have fabricated the whole story while under extreme interigation, perhaps with the interagator's suggestion.

3.) It is standard practice in inteligence opperations to NOT tell foreign nationals who is really behind the opperation. (This is called FALSE FLAGING.) Thus Britian, France or America may take the blame for what Russia or China does. Also those who hate America may willingly work for America thinking they are working for China.

4.) As for the fourth reason this might not be true, use your most paranoid imagination.

Yep you can gurantee they are going to play fire with fire, first you INFILTRATE, THEN COMES THE NEUTRALIZATION, THEN COMES THE DIS-ASSIMULATION.

How else are suppose to fight and invisible war?

Blood makes the grass grow, right children of the corn.



[edit on 21-5-2008 by menguard]

reply to post by xxpigxx

Yep, because carpet bombing the Germans turned them to terrorists. So we did it more, and more terrorists were baptized, so we bombed more . . .

You really have a basic lack of understanding of what America is dealing with here

Islamic Fundamentalists are not Germans. These are not paid, professional soldiers who serve under the command of leaders who are there to guide them and at times restrain their men.

These guys are akin to Soldiers of Fortune. Their driven purely by certain political motivations and religious zeal. They really don't care if they die, to be martyred on the battlefield is the greatest way to go as far as they're concerned, the proof of that is Suicide Bombings.
Their lives mean little to them so long as they can take down many more infidels before they perish.

By resorting to more reckless measures and just sheer wanton destruction you emblazon their cause. You give more and more ammo for these Extremists to start justifying more and more brutal tactics.
Thus you begin to feed the problem you seek to stop.

It just sows the seeds for more vengeance later down the road. Look at Iraq, right after Mission Accomplished the Insurgency was hardly gaining a foothold, scattered remnants of Saddam's men still holding out.
The US decided to occupy for another 4 years and look what happens; sheer chaos. Insurgents everywhere.

Why? Because more people supported them than ever. Harsher tactics and more bloodshed just drove their need to resist upwards by 110%.

How can you not comprehend this equation. You up the ante=So do they. They know how to fight dirty and rough in the mud as well as the US does.
You start torturing inmates at a prison, they start abducting journalists and beheading them, you demolish Fallujah with wide-scale aerial bombing, they create enough car bombs every month to orbit a small town.

Why are we forgetting about the mass killing (gassing) that Saddam did to the people that opposed them? Forget about that? Forget about the mass graves or the hundreds of people that came forward and talked about how their entire family was killed off by the sons of Saddam?

Why are YOU forgetting about the people that sold the necessary equipment to Saddam and chemical precursors to make all the chemical weapons he used?
There's a good chance those Kurds might still be alive today with US backing.

Why are you forgetting about how the Ba'ath Party got into power in the first place? The CIA: they backed and funded those right-wing nuts because they provided a deterrent against Communism.
Another smart move by the CIA in a long, sad history of backing right-wing dictators.

Why are you forgetting about how America armed and supplied Saddam with the weaponry to invade Iran in 1980?

Saddam was a key US ally in the Middle East prior to 1991, then he became a little too brutal and extreme even for Washington's standards, thus they wanted to remove him from power and place a more moderate guy in charge who wouldn't jeopardize the world's second largest reserve of oil.

The United States is the worlds baby sitter. And the people like me that were out there risking our lives so people like you can sit there and bash us, and squak and tell us how bad we are.

Don't give us that "holier-than-thou" attitude please... that's completely irrelevant, yes good for you, you served your country. Bravo.

What you failed to realize when you signed up is you would be part of a "Revenue-Hunt" for the Republican Party, so they could stand to gain massive profits by controlling the world's second largest reserve of Oil. It was essentially a snatch and grab, except on a much wider scale of course.

Your risked your life for nothing. There is nothing good that can come out of Iraq now. It was all in vain, the most vainest war ever commenced if you will, for one thing, MONEY.

And the US may like to think it's the Headquarters of the World Police but the reality is that American hegemony is slipping from around the world. That was a self-imposed authority over others.

And nobody likes being told what to do by anyone, let alone some half-retarded Texan and his tyrannical administration. When a country spends 3.7% of it's GDP on defense and the military every year, more than any other country in the world, it's a sign they have no faith in their diplomatic strength.

Everyone is standing up to American hegemony because of sheer double standards and hypocrisy existing in US Foreign Policy. Nobody can take you seriously anymore.
You fund more terrorists around the world than anyone else, yet you claim other nations need to stop sponsoring terrorism.
You allow Pakistan, India and Israel to have Nuclear weapons, but deny that right to Iran or North Korea.
You preach endlessly about freedom for all, justice and security but you deny these rights to anyone you disagree with at will.
Torture, government intrusion into every facet of public life, denying liberties, these are all things the US secretly does on one hand, while claiming they uphold the constitution and liberties with the other.

20 years ago, Saddam was an Ally, today he's dead.
30 years ago, Iran was an Ally, today Washington's want to nuke them.
You can't even decide your friends or foes.
Nobody respects American hegemony because it has become a vehicle for the corrupt to further their own selfish interests.

So here it is, very simple, if you hate everything that America stands for, well it is the land of the free. Pack up your things. Buy your self a ticket, and fly off to the country that you think is so much better.

Exactly my point above. Deny rights to those you disagree with to discredit them. Great. Wonderful!
One more step towards becoming like those oppressive nut jobs you try in vain in rid the world of.

When do we start goose-stepping down the street chanting "Yes Mein Fuhrer!"?

Oh and that oil you hate so much, keep this in mind. Fact is that the ENTIRE world runs on oil.

Nahh really?
Thus why your in Iraq chum.

How else are suppose to fight and invisible war?

Blood makes the grass grow, right children of the corn.

"An eye for an eye leaves the world blind."
Hypocrisy only makes for more defiance around the world.

[edit on 22/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]