Wow, so the trade-balance was nearly even only in 1985. After that, goodnight gracie.

Didn't ignore it at all. Statistics showing those numbers aren't collected to the extent that an accurate number could be shown.

So it is more conveniently to ignore this all together and bring up only the negative side of an open free trade.

Specifically which ones?

If oil was the goal, why aren't we invading Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Venezuela, Mexico, Canada, Russia, or Qatar?

Because you are already (kuwait and the like) or feel you are controlling those countries (Saudi Arab and the like), or simply had miss-judged the strength of the regime making it too late (Russia and the like).

PS: The Constitution doesn't prohibit foreign nations from donating money.

This very comment is the trademark of double-standards and hypocrisy which is why anti-Americanism is increasing everywhere on this tiny planet.

Originally posted by IchiNiSan

So it is more conveniently to ignore this all together and bring up only the negative side of an open free trade.

So we should extol all of the positive virtues of open free trade? Should we focus on lost American jobs, unsafe products, or having a trade deficit with a communist nation?

Because you are already (kuwait and the like) or feel you are controlling those countries (Saudi Arab and the like), or simply had miss-judged the strength of the regime making it too late (Russia and the like).

We invaded Kuwait? Really? When? How many casualties did we inflict?

If we controlled SA, why would Bushy need to ASK them to increase production?

This very comment is the trademark of double-standards and hypocrisy which is why anti-Americanism is increasing everywhere on this tiny planet.

You live in China correct? Hence you couldnt possibly comprehend the idea of the people controlling the government, and what said government does with OUR money.

Originally posted by slackerwire
So we should extol all of the positive virtues of open free trade? Should we focus on lost American jobs, unsafe products, or having a trade deficit with a communist nation?

Maybe if you rationally analyze it you might see more positive than negative? Who knows.

We invaded Kuwait? Really? When? How many casualties did we inflict?

If we controlled SA, why would Bushy need to ASK them to increase production?

Nope, I meant "already controlling" countries like Kuwait.

As for Saudi Araba this is why I said "you are feeling you are controlling" them, so no invasion was required. I bet Bush was shocked to see Saudi Arab donated 50 million USD and another 10 million USD worth of relief supplies to China. Since this is all politics, so it was like telling to the Americans, "I am befriended with the guy that you are trying to tell the world is a danger." Seems like states are swinging more and more to their own benefits instead of only being the lapdog of a "superpower", especially not of a depressed one anymore.

Interesting how you do try to avoid real discussions, and not mention Russia for example

You live in China correct? Hence you couldnt possibly comprehend the idea of the people controlling the government, and what said government does with OUR money.

You are making me laugh dude, I now have a feeling why America is destroying herself. No wonder with so many ignorant people. I will refer you to my signatures. Wake up buddy and listen to less propaganda.

Originally posted by IchiNiSan

Maybe if you rationally analyze it you might see more positive than negative? Who knows.

Which positives would those be?

If free, open trade was beneficial to each nation, China wouldn't have had to devalue their currency would they?

We invaded Kuwait? Really? When? How many casualties did we inflict?

If we controlled SA, why would Bushy need to ASK them to increase production?

Nope, I meant "already controlling" countries like Kuwait.

As for Saudi Araba this is why I said "you are feeling you are controlling" them, so no invasion was required. I bet Bush was shocked to see Saudi Arab donated 50 million USD and another 10 million USD worth of relief supplies to China. Since this is all politics, so it was like telling to the Americans, "I am befriended with the guy that you are trying to tell the world is a danger." Seems like states are swinging more and more to their own benefits instead of only being the lapdog of a "superpower", especially not of a depressed one anymore.

Again, if we controlled them, an increase in petroleum output would have already happened. The facts do not substantiate your claims.

Interesting how you do try to avoid real discussions, and not mention Russia for example

Need I point out your avoidance of questions? Please child, stick to the topic at hand without inserting your BS nationalistic crap into it. What would you like to know about Russia?

You are making me laugh dude, I now have a feeling why America is destroying herself. No wonder with so many ignorant people. I will refer you to my signatures. Wake up buddy and listen to less propaganda.

Specifically, which propaganda do you think I am listening to?







[edit on 19-5-2008 by slackerwire]

Originally posted by slackerwire
Which positives would those be?

If free, open trade was beneficial to each nation, China wouldn't have had to devalue their currency would they?

Actually do you know when and why China devalued the currency and pegged it to the USD in the first place?

Again, if we controlled them, an increase in petroleum output would have already happened. The facts do not substantiate your claims.

The ones you are controlling is too small, the ones you know that you are losing control you start to realize.

p.s. with "you" I mean the Bush admin and his supporters.

Need I point out your avoidance of questions? Please child, stick to the topic at hand without inserting your BS nationalistic crap into it. What would you like to know about Russia?

What has nationalism and pointing out the miss-judgment of the Bush regime for the uprising of the Russians and Putin, who decided to kick out all Western oil companies and reform the and re-centralize the Russian energy industry, to do with each other?

And if you mean avoiding questions, I presumed you would know that innocent countries is Afghanistan and Iraq.

Specifically, which propaganda do you think I am listening to?

Certainly not the ones I am exposed to hmmmm, maybe not smart of me to use sacarsm to someone not understanding my culture....





[edit on 19/5/08 by IchiNiSan]

Originally posted by IchiNiSan

Actually do you know when and why China devalued the currency and pegged it to the USD in the first place?

I dont bring up issues I am not knowledgeable in. China devalued it for a few reasons actually, but the chief factor was to make it cheaper for them in terms of production.

Again, if we controlled them, an increase in petroleum output would have already happened. The facts do not substantiate your claims.

The ones you are controlling is too small, the ones you know that you are losing control you start to realize.

Well according to you, we control Saudi Arabia, which has the largest oil reserves on the planet.

What has nationalism and pointing out the miss-judgment of the Bush regime for the uprising of the Russians and Putin, who decided to kick out all Western oil companies and reform the and re-centralize the Russian energy industry, to do with each other?

Putin is nothing more than a fascist criminal.

And if you mean avoiding questions, I presumed you would know that innocent countries is Afghanistan and Iraq.

You may want to look up the definition of innocent.

Unless that is, you consider a nation that fires surface to air missiles at jets patrolling agreed upon no fly zones to be innocent.

Afghanistan? Innocent? You're kidding right?

Okay.



Hmmmm..

This thread took a turn that I did not expect it to. And to think that I thought my breaking news on global warming would get all the attention.

So there seems to be a lot of emotionally charged nationalistic banter going on around these parts. It seems to me that the most progressive of us bring out the most archaic of weapons when we feel our pride attacked.

First things first. In the event of a disaster, when immediate help will immediately save lives, I know that there should be no restrictions on that aid. Now if we are talking about reconstruction? No, aid like that should come in the form of loans that have equal interest to the loans they have made to us. But sending in filtration devices, food, generators for triage, I think it behooves of all nations to send help whenever called for.

As for our constitutional right to do so? You are right. There is none. But need I go on and on about the "rights" that have been taken from me, or the powers abused by BOTH parties in the last few centuries?

And please stop with the pro China, bad America rhetoric. You know who I am talking to. Stop claiming to be independently minded, when all you spew is what our liberal left spews. Lets stick to what we agree on. The fact is, by the way, that we did have the right to attack Afghanistan, a country governed by the very group that claimed responsibility for attacking NYC.

This Thread was intended to discuss the positives and negatives of the relief effort. I expected more positives from every side.

And P.S. I agree that the trade deficit is out of control. But just wait till The U.S. reaches energy independence first. Then we will see how fast that deficit changes sides.

Originally posted by slackerwire
I dont bring up issues I am not knowledgeable in. China devalued it for a few reasons actually, but the chief factor was to make it cheaper for them in terms of production.

It was in support of the Asian economies, and to counter the Asian Financial Crisis almost a decade ago, which all Asian countries were being targetted by speculators. They stopped when they could not bring Hong Kong down, which was supported by China. A re-valuation is occuring as many wished, but in economics my personal opinion is that you should be careful in what you wish for and gradual incremental actions are preferred over a big boom.

Interesting that costprice has increased already 30-40% since the beginning of the year for Chinese manufacturing, because of the new Labour law and increase of raw material pricing. On top of it the appreciation of the RMB.

So how come the American inflation is still less than even 10%?

Either the CPI is a fake made-up figure, or the increase is only roaming off the huge profits of the American companies OR maybe the Chinese imports are not that significant at all for the overall American economy.

If you really live in USA, expect a hyperinflation IF the Chinese goods is any indication and the only foreign imports in USA.

Well according to you, we control Saudi Arabia, which has the largest oil reserves on the planet.

Yes, and i am too lazy to bring up sources today. But, that's even more interesting to see more of these formerly lapdogs standing up and do whatever they want to do for the best of their own country and not someone's else one.

Putin is nothing more than a fascist criminal.

And this is because he is doing what is in best interests for Russia and not becoming another lapdog of USA?

You may want to look up the definition of innocent.

Unless that is, you consider a nation that fires surface to air missiles at jets patrolling agreed upon no fly zones to be innocent.

Afghanistan? Innocent? You're kidding right?

What was the reason again to invade Iraq? please tell me the official one again, I might have forgotten that one.

And have you guys found in those caves of Afghanistan so far?

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
Okay.

I am most likely representing the views of many more non-Americans, and not even in China and certain topics addressed on, not only the liberal lefts of your country, who by the way ironically will try to strangle me when it comes down to certain other topics. For each of those "rhetorics" for both anti-China or anti-USA one can make essays and write books about. Nobody in the world is independently minded, nobody. However, you do have open minded and closed minded people. You always have a certain opinion and viewpoints on certain topics. But to be ignorant enough to believe that your opponent in the debate is simply a brainwashed propagandists, that is simply admitting that guy is not at least open minded enough to listen. This critic is not to you jason, but to many many many many others in ATS.

Jason, I HATE it when I see yet another simply anti-China crusader popping up here and there, and try to make the world believe it is China who caused all the incredible mess in your own country. And today is such a day that maybe I should not have come to these kinds of boards.

And for your information, which you will not hear much in USA:
- the Chinese press (equivalent to leaders?) praised the American donation of 500K USD.
- the Chinese press was grateful to receiving Satellite spy high-resolution pictures from the Pentagon
- the Chinese press even made praises for Bush's sympathy and condolences.
- the Chinese press also is praising the relief supplies received from the Americans
- the Chinese press is still praising the Western and worldwide media for the supports shown.
- and the Chinese press is ignoring the anti-China rhetorics and bashing from many Western media and individuals, even popping up on a daily base.

Let's hope that you guys will get a better leader soon with a change in a less agressive foreign policy so we can live peacefully next together.



[edit on 19/5/08 by IchiNiSan]

The US didn't do this to try and get China to point its nukes elsewhere, and I doubt they expect China to drop any US debts for it. It's a gesture of goodwill and a show of what the US does best; humanitarian aid.

Everyone hates the US when they take lives, then hates them some more when they save lives! Can't you just see this event as a 'good' thing rather than bickering about who they're going to invade next?

Yes, I heard that one tomahawk cruise missile costs 1 million USD
and all the relief supplies you sent to China costs only 0.7 million USD
If I were American, I would try to stop US government sabre rattling
all over the world. that is the best way to save money.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by gs001]