50 acres enough?

My brother and I are ready to purchase 50 acres in rural Mississippi, most of it heavily wooded, lots of fresh water springs, middle of nowhere. We would like advice on the following:

Is this enough land to sustain how many people in a sit X?

Should we build a few underground shelters, or build above ground and cover them with earth, or build off the grid solar power?

We have farming, hunting, fishing,building skills. We need advice on defense weapons.{money is not an issue}

We think something drastic is going to happen in the next 5-10 years.

Should we stockpile food?

We are even thinking of inviting some people that like the simple, hardworking life along for the ride.

Do you guys think this is a big waste of time, or should we go for it?

reply to post by givemeliberty or beer

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50 acres is a substantial amount of land. You should be able to do whatever you want there.

Do you know if there's any wildlife? I would recommend camping there for a few days to see what kind of animals you can find. I would assume there would be deer, rabbits, and other rodents which in a worst case scenario would be great protein (or even not in survival mode).

Depending on what kind of lifestyle you live, you could support a small town on that piece of land. I'm assuming you're looking for a range though.

I would say 20-50 people would have no problem being sustained on that piece of property if you were to grow perennial crops as well as annuals. If you hunted or kept livestock you'd be in good shape even if your crops failed.

I personally like cob houses, which are made out of straw, mud, and clay. They are easy to build, strong, cheap, renewable, and fun . I would recommend building a passive solar cob house, which means you orient your house to get the winter sun (from the south) and get essentially free heating in the winter.

Solar power definitely wouldn't hurt. You might want to look into microhydro to supplement your power in case its a rainy day, if there are streams/rivers nearby. You mentioned springs so I'm not sure if that means they're running or not.

Microwind is also a definite bet on secondary power.

Stockpiling food definitely couldn't hurt. I recommend learning canning, drying, and freeze-drying methods of food preservation. Worse case scenario you build a root cellar and put your food stuffs there.

I would say this is not a waste of time at all. I am looking towards a similar option in the not so distant future.

If you have any more questions, or if I didn't answer a question you asked, let me know and I'll be happy to help.

[edit on 5/18/2008 by biggie smalls]

Investing in land is always a good idea regardless of the occurrence of sitx.

Inviting outsiders in; I don't think is a good idea unless you enjoy bickering, squabbling over women, lazy sob's, power trips, ego's, etc.
and that's just with family members.

[edit on 18-5-2008 by whaaa]

If you have a good cold water spring you can also look into a spring house to keep things like hand churned butter cold/cool like a natural refridgerator. Much like the old sod house/root cellars common to the area.

I have seen where old indian villages were laid out in a natural clearing of less than an acre and looked like it would have held 30-50 people easy. Oddly enough there was a mound not too far of a walk away, maybe 15 minutes or so. A small stream of clear water about a 5 min walk tops. Lots of Pines to the west and maple, elms, walnuts and hickory to the east and south. I would say a few people know about that place, but I am always on the look for a little niche to hold up in that is like it.

I personally think 50 acres is more than anyone could reasonably expect to defend in a Sitx scenario. Nobody will care if you have a deed or not once law enforcement is out of the picture. Smaller is definitely better unless you want to start some sort of community.

Also, if it is heavily wooded it will require a lot of effort to make it suitable for farming. Trees must come down, stumps and rocks have to be removed, and the the land must then be plowed, disced, and cultivated to make it suitable for crop planting. This means lots of manpower, time, and equipment.

If you plan to have livestock such as cattle, you'll need fences and a sustainable water supply for them, and roughly five acres of grazing land per animal.

Even if something does happen and the wildlife become contaminated or scare you can always stock on lentils which is the next best source of protein.There are many websites out there 4 survival issues and building.

Well, if you buy land... what law will there be to protect you or your rights then?

What system will be in place then? Capitalism? Socialism? Communism? Dictatorship? a Monarchy, or nothing at all (every community for itself?)

In the event of an serious global catastrophe, money will not matter. It will be a difficult and different world then. We will go back to the middle ages. Fences and borders will mean little or nothing in a world like that when there is no room for formalities.

Just learn basic agriculture and how to survive like an woodsman, but purchasing 50 acres of land for post 2012? There are no guarantees, I'm afraid.

Good luck, and I hope you find your way.

reply to post by star in a jar

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Yes, it will be basically anarchy, but a secluded plot that you know like the back of your hand and properly sited and stocked will do wonders in this type of scenario.

You do not need to defend the entire property and if its secluded enough you might never have to.

Edit to add: I agree with the poster that farming will take doing if its wooded. Clearing the land will require alot of heavy equipment. Removing stumps by hand will take months of back breaking work.



[edit on 5/18/08 by FredT]

Whatever property you have, you'll have to defend it from squatters, looters, and refugees. They'll take root right under your nose, and will eat your livestock and consume your crops like a plague of locust.

I raise a small garden (about a quarter acre) every year and live in the middle of nowhere, but somehow people still manage to find it, and take what they please. If the theft isn't bad enough, they trample dozens of other plants and vegetables in their haste to snatch and run. It seriously p-sses me off!

My chickens disappear frequently during hunting season because of hunters illegally hunting around my property wanting a quick, easy meal. You can't be everywhere all at the same time, and they know it.

People will cut down your trees for firewood to sell in the Winter months, if you don't walk you property lines fanatically.

Now, imagine Sitx with no property rights being acknowledged, no police to enforce any laws, and thousands of hungry people. You'll practically have to bring your animals inside if you want to keep them, and stand over your crops with a shotgun. Your trees will be history come the first cold snap.

Read the posts on this board alone! Every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the World will be leaving the cities to go to the country to "Live off the Fat of The Land". Can you imagine any animal in their right mind hanging around with thousands of people traipsing through the woods shooting off guns?

What are these would-be woodsmen going to eat then aside from your livestock and crops provided by your hard-work and the sweat of your brow? You'll be lucky if you can keep enough for you and yours to eat.

[edit on 5/19/08 by LLoyd45]

I remember an old subsistance farming book. It had all the knowledge.
How to do everything, like how to build a root cellar. All the traditional basics.

It was titled "8 Acres And Independence".

There were probably a few books along those lines at the turn of the century.

You should consider creating fields and sowing in some wild oats and rice.
Plant potatoes and things like that. You will find that you can get a lot of food to grow on it's own in the wild, and the grains will attract wildlife. You can release turkeys which can be purchased as eggs on the internet.

Good luck, I hope you can find a copy!



[edit on 19-5-2008 by Cyberbian]

IMO, 50 acres may be too much.

I own an 11 acre farm in Nowheresville, WI, and even that might be too big.

Keep in mind, the average yield of 1 acre of :

Corn= 1,200 Dozen ears of corn

Soybeans= 3,500 lbs

Tomatoes= 28,000 lbs

Carrots= 30,000 lbs

So even just 4 acres with 1 acre dedicated to each crop would yield too much food to actually manage in a Sit X event.

Add in a few acres of defensive land (buffer zone), and soon you would need more people than you would have with you in order to mount a proper defense.



[edit on 19-5-2008 by slackerwire]

How will you defend you 50 acres? better yet who do you plan on having with you?

reply to post by LLoyd45

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Thanks for all the sound advice, guys. Will take all under consideration.

Keep us updated!
We would greatly enjoy watching your progress.

reply to post by n0b0DY

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we are still in the early stages, don't know yet. will definetly have some things buried. would like to get guys like you all to stay there with us if tshtf. property is located in choctaw county, mississippi just off hwy.415

reply to post by LLoyd45

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wow. never thought of this stuff. would like to talk to you in more detail.

For a Benchmark here's what I grew up with...

Yes.. 50 acres is plenty. I lived on a 40 acre dairy farm for 11 years since the age of 7 in a family of 5; 2 adults and 3 children. At one time we ran 70 head of milking Jersey's but the average was 40, (approx, 1 cow per acre) This this did NOT include our 1/2 acre of garden either, or the 10 or so fruit trees we had. the only thing we paid for was city water being that our well went bad or wasn't deep enough, and city electricity. However, when the lights went out, we just used kerosene and candles in the main living room and kitchen.

We bought a fireplace insert to make our wood for the winter last longer and it did. It got so hot in the winter that it would melt the 3+ft of snow off the roof and leave a border around the edges. That's plenty HOT. )

Personally, I think we should have went complete Beef instead of dairy. We were grade B meaning we shipped in cans instead of bulk. Less hassle and more time spent on things that were in constant push back due to milking times. 1 Holstein is plenty for a family of 4-5 IMO. btw: with that many cows, I got only 1 vacation in 11 years. 2 weeks in CA.

Chickens: I hate em! But, they provide excellent source for meat and eggs. We had 50(?) if I remember right.. WAY more than what we needed LOL..plus they crap ALOT! Our chicken coup was 50'x25' with 50 nests, of course.

Ducks: only good for eating and quite nice for a alarm system )

Pigs: we had 3; 1 to butcher, 1 pregnant and one standby.

Guess that's a start .. GL

How good is the soil? Type and depth of the top soil? Flat or hilly? There are always problems with farming or animal agriculture, pest, predators, bad weather, bad neighbors.

Roper

reply to post by givemeliberty or beer

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build under ground rocks instead of blocks are free just ask the area farmers if they would like their fields rock piles removed for free just tell them that your wife wants a big rock garden in the back yard for her pretty flowers cover with sod so that it blends in with the area plant prickly plants on top raspberries would serve 2 purposes,line it with straw if in a colder climate and cover straw with plaster so it does not burn -building permits for what i`m not doing anything remember it`s vacant land as far as you want anyone else to know-no knowledge no uninvited friends will come a calling-try not to leave a trail or driveway in.when you decide to disappear park somewhere other than on your door step others look for the obvious not for what is not there -don't advertise.dont clear land to grow on its an open invitation cut out some of the larger trees and plant in these areas not in the open-open areas your an easy target ,also plant fruit trees apples ,plum apricots pears and learn how to can naturally and stock up on mason jars and lids and sealers.for vitamin c plant roses and harvest the hips as 1 hip gives you the equivalent vitamin c of 8 to 12 oranges when made into a tea-sorry Florida for your loss ha ha ha. learn how to grow and harvest seeds properly for the next year as there may not be any seed stores left -volunteer on a farm for a while and visit the library and read and copy all that you will need to know then put it into practice before its too late -good luck

I now live on 30 acres of dense wooded Pine, Oak, and some Hickory.
The Hickory is great for giving meat a great flavor. The Southern states are loaded with Hickory. Check with the Aggriculture Department for native trees...eatable herbs, etc.
Here in TX we have a huge problem with wild hogs. Hogs that have escaped from being demosticated and have taken up home in the woods. They root up pastures acres at a time. They are on the move all through the night. Wild hogs are viscious when they have their young at their side and will attack anyone who wonders near them. They are a great source for meat and have a slight swet taste...very lean too. Eating too much wild hog meat can lead to Kidney stones though.
My biggest concern here in TX is the amount of animals who carry Rabies!
I fear just walking to the creek with out my dogs for fear of running into a skunk, fox or coyote who may be rabid.
Then there are the deer who carry the Francella disease. One might think of looking up microbial diseases and finding out what can be transmitted (Zoonotic) to humans. I do remember when I had about 25 chickens. I would eat the young roosters before they fully matured. I would always inspect their liver when gutting them to see if they were healthy. I would reject a yellow or real pale colored liver as meat worthy for the family and throw it to the dogs later in the day. Hard also to find a dog who will not kill all your game birds. Had a huge problem with the Hawks eating the chickens too.
Insects at night are scary, as you can get eaten alive if you are near the water where the mosquitos breed. Often things would get stuck in my hair and flop around when I would sit near a campfire...goodness knows what flew in my hair!
Right now I have a 40x60 foot garden unfenced and MR. Rabbit has eaten over 3/4 of the green bean bushs down. Cant put the big dog out at night else the hogs with young will kill him. Need to go purchase some fence and run a barbed wire around the bottom near the earth to keep the rooting hogs out. Considering eating the rabbit if it doesnt have Turalima.